Sylvania and fear

[Kolwen]

Hello!
I can't understand how is possible that the phoenix guard frighten nearby troops and there aren't troops in Sylvania with that skill. They are undead!! It is the most important property in WFB and all of them should cause "fear".
Has anyone thought about it?
Sorry about my english!

[Outlawstar15a2]

Hello!
I can't understand how is possible that the phoenix guard frighten nearby troops and there aren't troops in Sylvania with that skill. They are undead!! It is the most important property in WFB and all of them should cause "fear".
Has anyone thought about it?
Sorry about my english!

It was done for balance purposes. Think about it. If you had a full stack where all 20 units caused fear and then they were also immune to fear and then they recovered a large proportion of their casualties after battle. They would be a unstoppable force. That may work for WFB but in a medieval 2 game it results in everyone playing that one faction and everyone QQing about how ed up and imbalanced the game would be.

[Kolwen]

If it worked for WFB then it should work for M2TW. Just decrease the defense value of the most units or increase the cost. I think that the fear is a basic trait for sylvania

[Outlawstar15a2]

If it worked for WFB then it should work for M2TW. Just decrease the defense value of the most units or increase the cost. I think that the fear is a basic trait for sylvania

No, it won't work for M2TW because of how the combat engine works. What works for the gander does not work for the goose in this situation. M2TW's combat engine is very clear on how morale and fear works it's not ambigious like in WFB where a fear causing unit's target can make a rolling save and stay sane. In M2 if a unit causes fear it causes fear there is no saving throw. It was need to preserve balance. If you want Sylvania to universally cause fear your gonna need to strip them of all their other perks such as zero upkeep and that don't make sense to me.

If they don't cause fear it matters not. I mean after all they have morale lock, what more do you want in this faction?

[Kolwen]

If they don't cause fear it matters not. I mean after all they have morale lock, what more do you want in this faction?

Then they should have at least more frightening units than the rest of the armies. Who causes fear right now in sylvania? The blood dragons? Just one unit in the whole army. That's not fair! The phoenix guard causes fear as they do in WFB...
Regardless I still thinking that they all should cause fear.

[Outlawstar15a2]

Then they should have at least more frightening units than the rest of the armies. Who causes fear right now in sylvania? The blood dragons? Just one unit in the whole army. That's not fair! The phoenix guard causes fear as they do in WFB...
Regardless I still thinking that they all should cause fear.

Well if you feel that bad about it why don't you simply mod the feature into your Sylvanian units?

[Martin von Carstein]

Kolwen

Download Real Warhammer mod

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=336405

or download this mod:

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=324045

There is a well-presented. VC does not do the training bags. They are a challenge.

[Kolwen]

Well if you feel that bad about it why don't you simply mod the feature into your Sylvanian units?

Unfortunately I do not have knowledge about mods to make my own.
I don't want you to misunderstand me, I like CoW, and this suggestion is not necessary to me to have fun with the mod, but I think that this change could improve it.

Kolwen

Download Real Warhammer mod

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=336405

or download this mod:

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=324045

There is a well-presented. VC does not do the training bags. They are a challenge.

Im using the Real Warhammer mod, and it is great, but dont solve it (by now).
I don't think that Sylvania need to be better. I think that they are good right now, it is just a suggestion to make CoW more faithful to the lore. Because of that I think that is this feature is applied, sylvania could need a punishment in their point cost or something like that.

[Outlawstar15a2]

Unfortunately I do not have knowledge about mods to make my own.
I don't want you to misunderstand me, I like CoW, and this suggestion is not necessary to me to have fun with the mod, but I think that this change could improve it.

Im using the Real Warhammer mod, and it is great, but dont solve it (by now).
I don't think that Sylvania need to be better. I think that they are good right now, it is just a suggestion to make CoW more faithful to the lore. Because of that I think that is this feature is applied, sylvania could need a punishment in their point cost or something like that.

Ok, that's good. Well for future reference allow me to show you how to add or drop attributes from units since you'll need to know this for future endeavors. We'll use your former request as a example and then I'll show how upkeep can be modified:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

type Phoenix guard
dictionary Phoenix_guard ; Ãâàðäèÿ Ôåíèêñà
category infantry
class heavy
voice_type Heavy
;accent High_elfs
banner faction main_infantry
banner holy crusade
soldier Phoenix_guard, 50, 0, 1.5
mount_effect elephant +2
attributes sea_faring, can_withdraw, pike, frighten_foot, frighten_mounted
move_speed_mod 1.1
formation 0.8, 1.8, 2.4, 2.4, 6, square, phalanx
stat_health 1, 0
stat_pri 9, 7, no, 0, 0, melee, melee_blade, piercing, spear, 0, 1
stat_pri_attr spear, long_pike
stat_sec 9, 6, no, 0, 0, melee, melee_blade, piercing, axe, 0, 1
stat_sec_attr short_pike, spear
stat_pri_armour 7, 9, 0, metal
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat 0
stat_ground 0, -2, -2, -1
stat_mental 18, disciplined, highly_trained
stat_charge_dist 30
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 1, 2250, 450, 100, 100, 2250, 1, 320 ;15$
armour_ug_levels 3, 4, 5, 6
armour_ug_models Phoenix_guard, Phoenix_guard_ug1, Phoenix_guard_ug2, Phoenix_guard_ug3
ownership england
recruit_priority_offset 20

Above, is the EDU entry for the phoenix guard. As the highlighted attributes show this unit causes fear in foot and cavalry troops. If you wanted to add this to all the Sylvanian units you would simply cut and paste

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

frighten_foot, frighten_mounted

at the end of the attribute list for all Sylvanian units in the EDU. This has to be done one by one. Make sure to add a ", " before the two new attributes unless there is one there already.

Now you want to modify the point cost for custom/multiplayer battles, right? That to can be done from the EDU to in fact it's a few lines below where you did most of your work. Here's how it works:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

type Black guard Morr ;WS4 BS3 S3 T3 W1 I3 A1 Ld8
dictionary black_guard_morr ; Ðûöàðè èìïåðñêîé ãâàðäèè
category cavalry
class heavy
voice_type Heavy
banner faction main_cavalry
banner holy crusade_cavalry
soldier Black_guard_morr, 25, 0, 1.5
mount morr armoured horse
mount_effect elephant +2
attributes sea_faring, knight, can_withdraw, frighten_foot, legionary_name
formation 1.5, 1.5, 3 ,3, 4, square, wedge
stat_health 1, 0
stat_pri 9, 6, no, 0, 0, melee, melee_blade, slashing, axe, 0, 1
stat_pri_attr no
stat_sec 0, 0, no, 0, 0, no, melee_simple, blunt, none, 0, 1
stat_sec_attr no
stat_pri_armour 13, 5, 4, metal
stat_sec_armour 3, 3, metal
stat_heat 2
stat_ground 0, -3, -4, -2
stat_mental 16, normal, highly_trained, lock_morale
stat_charge_dist 50
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 1, 2500, 500, 100, 100, 2500, 2, 1000 ;23$
armour_ug_levels 6
armour_ug_models Black_guard_morr
ownership france
recruit_priority_offset 20

You'll see I highlighted the line for stat_costs. Now your probably wondering "But Outlaw what are the numbers on that line for? I see them in every mod I play." Here's how it breaks down. Stat cost as you can see contains nine separate numbers from left to right the numbers are for the following:

1st value: Number of turns needed to build
2nd value: Cost of unit to build
3rd value: Cost of upkeep
4th value: Cost of upgrading weapons
5th value: Cost of upgrading armor
6th value: Cost for custom battles
7th value: Unknown
8th value: Unknown
9th value: Unknown

So go to stat cost and count over to the 6th number and change that to whatever you want. Please do note if you change multiplayer applicable values in the EDU you will not be able to find or play with people whose EDU does not match yours. Depending on what you change problems will range from their and your games not appearing on the list to a crash to desktop whenever you edit the EDU and intend to play multiplayer always make a backup and always share a copy with your friends.

[The Holy Pilgrim]

Yes you do

[Werebear]

Yes you do

no, after EDU or EDB changes you can just load save

[Kolwen]

Well, I tried some custom battles against sylvania, without changing the cost of their units and I lost everytime. However my troops didn't run since they were very weakened. I will continue testing with new tactics. Maybe I should increase their recruitment cost.

[Peltast]

So the others were right about overpowering and the mechanism of fear... have you considered for example giving the lesser undead chant? Boosting morale of nearby troops does nothing for them since most of them have locked morale but it does lower enemy morale, which odd to make them break easier but not automatically like frighten. Frighten can be reserved for the higher-end units?

[Kolwen]

Ok, I think that I am success in balancing the sylvanian tropps.
I have lowered the skeletons armor to 6, and I achieved a victory against them.
It was very challenging, and I lost a lot of my army, but only one of my units fled from combat.
What dou you think?

Image

[Outlawstar15a2]

no, after EDU or EDB changes you can just load save

I made similar changes in my EDU for Broken Crescent and I ended up restarting the campaign and all I did was change the first stat cost. So yeah, you can just continue but I'd recommend restarting.

BTW, how are you Isilendil? And how is the rest of the team?

[Kolwen]

In my last game I won even with armor 8. Anyone is interested in trying the balancing?
Here is the EDU file.