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Thread: Venezuela has stolen our lands!

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  1. #1
    Treize's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Venezuela has stolen our lands!

    Haven't we all heard of Hugo Chavez?
    Well this Mr. Chavez claims that the ABC islands belong to Venezuela.

    But now I have discovered that Venezuela actually owes islands to us.
    To be precise:
    -Los Roques (pop. 1800)
    -both Avez islands
    -Orchilla

    Now, to back my claim:

    Los Roques
    The Dutch considered Los Roques to belong to their island territory of Curaçao because of its proximity to Bonaire which also belonged to the Dutch. The author M.D. Teenstra in 1836 still writes (in his book "The Dutch West Indies"): The Government of Curaçao also includes the uninhabited islets and rocks Little Curaçao, Aves, Roques and Orchilla.
    Isla Avez
    The island was most likely discovered by Avaro Sanzze in 1584, though it was not settled. It was subsequently claimed for Great Britain, Spain, Portugal and the Netherlands. Throughout the 17th, 18th and 19th centuries, the inhabitants of the Dutch islands St. Eustatius and Saba regularly visited Aves to collect turtle and bird eggs.
    In 1854 a US captain discovered the abundant quantities of guano on Aves and systematic collection started not long after. Both the Dutch and Venezuelan authorities found out and protested. The Dutch sent a warship to Aves. Its captain found Americans loading guano. He informed them that the Dutch considered Aves to belong to the Netherlands.
    The Dutch authorities on Curaçao under whom St. Eustatius and Saba fell, sat down with the Venezuelans and together decided to find a mutually acceptable sovereign to decide about the ownership of Aves Island. The Queen of Spain was accepted by both parties. In 1865 Isabella II ruled on the issue. Not surprisingly, she decided in favor of the Spanish speaking heirs of her ancestors' empire.
    However, Isabella's judgment acknowledged the time honored rights of the inhabitants of the Dutch islands St. Eustatius, Saba and St. Maarten to fish in the waters around Aves. As this was the main issue the Dutch had, they accepted the ruling. Later Dutch historians argued that in fact, Isabella's advisors mixed up Aves with Las Aves Archipelago lying between Bonaire and Los Roques, just off the coast of Venezuela.
    In the meantime, in 1859 the Administrator of St. Eustatius granted a concession to collect guano on Aves to ‘Edward Green, Kean & Co.’ in Baltimore at f. 2.50 per ton. He decided that “even though Aves was never permanently settled by the Dutch, the inhabitants of Statia and Saba had made use of the island longer than anyone can remember,” which “constituted proof of possession.” He gave a provisionary concession and asked the Governor in Curaçao to confirm. The Governor meanwhile had received a request to mine guano on Aves from a group of business men on Dutch St. Maarten, “who had assured themselves that Aves was recognized as a possession of the Dutch government.”
    From 1878 to 1912 the island was again occupied by American guano miners until supplies were eventually exhausted.
    Isla de Aves was included in Venezuela's territorial reorganization done by President Joaquin Crespo in 1895. By 1905, Isla de Aves was a municipality called "Municipio Oriental" part of Colon Federal Territory.
    Las Avez archipelago:
    Las Aves was considered by the Dutch to belong to their West-Indian possessions and the author M.D. Teenstra in "The Dutch West Indies" (Amsterdam, 1836) still writes: The Government of Curaçao also includes the uninhabited islets and rocks Little Curaçao, Aves, Roques and Orchilla.
    Orchilla:
    The Dutch considered Orchilla to belong to their nearby island territory of Curaçao. The author M.D. Teenstra still writes in 1836 (in his book "The Dutch West Indies): "The government of Curaçao also includes the uninhabited islets and rocks Little Curaçao, Aves, Roques and Orchilla." He goes on to say that "Orchilla, although we consider it to belong to Curaçao, is of too little importance to justify any dispute with Spain which claims this island as well. The Republic of Venezuela also considers it theirs and their coastal guard often chases away the fishermen from Curaçao who go there to collect shell fish, fire wood, grass and hay, turtles, and birds' eggs or burn lime."
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Even if they don't give it peacefully, can we have them as a repayment if Venezuala does a Falklands on the ABC-island???
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  2. #2

    Default Re: Venezuela has stolen our lands!

    Does the Netherlands even have a navy large enough to carry it's pitiful army across the world?

  3. #3
    Treize's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Venezuela has stolen our lands!

    Quote Originally Posted by Stavroforos View Post
    Is this your attempt at making us care about the Netherlands since the World Cup?
    Yea

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul the Octopus View Post
    Does the Netherlands even have a navy large enough to carry it's pitiful army across the world?
    Well a Falklands scenario would be intresting because we cannot defend 3 islands with 2 infantery companies. Recapturing them without air support would be hard so allies would be needed I am afraid.

    Also:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 





    I oppose the latter (planned to be built) ship, though.


    EDIT:
    But that is not the point.
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  4. #4
    tonymurphy1888's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Venezuela has stolen our lands!

    The entire population of the Netherlands was taken down with 11 Spainish people and an Englishman Imagin what a country formally owend by spain would do to them (had to be done)
    Yes, friends, governments in capitalist society are but committees of the rich to manage the affairs of the capitalist class.
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  5. #5
    Treize's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Venezuela has stolen our lands!

    Quote Originally Posted by tonymurphy1888 View Post
    The entire population of the Netherlands was taken down with 11 Spainish people and an Englishman Imagin what a country formally owend by spain would do to them (had to be done)
    But we where a Spanish possesion aswell...

    But that is not the point
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  6. #6
    dogukan's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Venezuela has stolen our lands!

    your islands? Ah colonialist mindset.
    "Therefore I am not in favour of raising any dogmatic banner. On the contrary, we must try to help the dogmatists to clarify their propositions for themselves. Thus, communism, in particular, is a dogmatic abstraction; in which connection, however, I am not thinking of some imaginary and possible communism, but actually existing communism as taught by Cabet, Dézamy, Weitling, etc. This communism is itself only a special expression of the humanistic principle, an expression which is still infected by its antithesis – the private system. Hence the abolition of private property and communism are by no means identical, and it is not accidental but inevitable that communism has seen other socialist doctrines – such as those of Fourier, Proudhon, etc. – arising to confront it because it is itself only a special, one-sided realisation of the socialist principle."
    Marx to A.Ruge

  7. #7
    Georgy Zhukov's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Venezuela has stolen our lands!

    Quote Originally Posted by dogukan View Post
    your islands? Ah colonialist mindset.
    Yea, maybe 330 years ago.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Venezuela has stolen our lands!

    Do something about it then.

  9. #9
    Heinz Guderian's Avatar *takes off trousers
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    Default Re: Venezuela has stolen our lands!

    i advise to surrender immediately




  10. #10
    Heinz Guderian's Avatar *takes off trousers
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    Default Re: Venezuela has stolen our lands!

    Ah Zhukov, we meet again. Been a long time.




  11. #11
    Georgy Zhukov's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Venezuela has stolen our lands!

    Quote Originally Posted by Heinz Guderian View Post
    Ah Zhukov, we meet again. Been a long time.
    You had to ruin it by surrendering to the Americans didn't you Heinz?

  12. #12
    Tiberios's Avatar Le Paysan Soleil
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    Default Re: Venezuela has stolen our lands!

    I demand the the Netherlands take them by force!

  13. #13
    Comes Domesticorum
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    Default Re: Venezuela has stolen our lands!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kralle18 View Post
    I demand the the Netherlands take them by force!
    But would IPA want the Dutch armed forces moved to take those islands when at any moment the Germans could invade?

  14. #14
    hellheaven1987's Avatar Comes Domesticorum
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    Default Re: Venezuela has stolen our lands!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kralle18 View Post
    I demand the the Netherlands take them by force!
    Those islands are currently under Kingdom of Netherlands' control, at least officially.
    Quote Originally Posted by Markas View Post
    Hellheaven, sometimes you remind me of King Canute trying to hold back the tide, except without the winning parable.
    Quote Originally Posted by Diocle View Post
    Cameron is midway between Black Rage and .. European Union ..

  15. #15
    Tiberios's Avatar Le Paysan Soleil
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    Default Re: Venezuela has stolen our lands!

    Quote Originally Posted by Stavroforos View Post
    But would IPA want the Dutch armed forces moved to take those islands when at any moment the Germans could invade?
    Well they are going to have to take a chance. Hopefully the Germans will focus on flanking France through Belgium

    Quote Originally Posted by hellheaven1987 View Post
    Those islands are currently under Kingdom of Netherlands' control, at least officially.
    Well they must make sure they are fully and prepare to invade Venezuela to install a pro-Dutch government

  16. #16

    Default Re: Venezuela has stolen our lands!

    lol Ireland actually have a great army in comparision to the countries mentioned here, I didn't think that was possible

  17. #17
    Holger Danske's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Venezuela has stolen our lands!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kralle18 View Post
    I demand the the Netherlands take them by force!
    Then I shall demand something more insane and suicidal. Jomfruøerne, must be returned, by force!

  18. #18
    Treize's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Venezuela has stolen our lands!

    Quote Originally Posted by Holger Danske View Post
    Then I shall demand something more insane and suicidal. Jomfruøerne, must be returned, by force!
    It will be a race...
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_Virgin_Islands
    Miss me yet?

  19. #19

    Default Re: Venezuela has stolen our lands!

    Quote Originally Posted by Holger Danske View Post
    Then I shall demand something more insane and suicidal. Jomfruøerne, must be returned, by force!
    You hypocritical bastards!
    Have you ever seen Dirty Harry Guns and money are best diplomacy
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  20. #20
    Visna's Avatar Comrade Natascha
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    Default Re: Venezuela has stolen our lands!

    Quote Originally Posted by Holger Danske View Post
    Then I shall demand something more insane and suicidal. Jomfruøerne, must be returned, by force!
    They were sold, fair and square, so they don't count. Unlike, say, Norway. I suppose Sweden could be put into the lot as well, but who wants Sweden?

    Under the stern but loving patronage of Nihil.

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