Government Types and when to use which one.....

[The Almohad]

First , I'd just like to extend a huge thank you to the team that created this mod, a lot of love went into it, and to think this was done for free while the game it modifies is not still blows my mind. I've been coming here for years but just kind of shadow different topics and mods, I haven't played EB since 0.8 and just last week upgraded to 1.1 and started up as Baktria on M/M.

I was just wondering, is it always best to build the highest level of available government type possible? Should the decision just be made on how quickly you need to get up and running, or just build type 1 everywhere you can? It just seems like some places offer a wider range of local units than others even if I build a type 1 government there. And yet sometimes I build a type 3 or 4 government in a place and still do not get access to much of the regional or non factional units. Its not a huge deal, I work with whatever I get, and all the units look awesome and have some sort of useful function, but if someone could clear this up that would be helpful.

[Bonapartist]

Check out the recruitment viewer in your program files, provided you installed it. It'll show exactly who gets access to what and where.

Different factions will have access to different regional troops even if they each had the same plot of dirt. For instance, if I recall correctly, conquering Syracuse as Carthage with type 4 yielded a few different (better) troops than it does as the Romans.

I'm a type 4 junky, I have to catch myself and start installing 2's where I can for greater economic growth. Type 4's experience (morale?) boost is serious stuff though. Be careful not to park your family members in Type 4 cities if you can avoid it, they will start accruing negative stats - I don't think they even have to be governing, just present. The same goes for putting a Client Ruler (a general unit produced at the type 4 city) in a type 1 2 or 3 city - bad stuff happens.

My real problem with the general system in EB is how generals will get "winter campaigning" and "tired" "sickly" or the like attributes, which decrease, sometimes hugely, their movement for that season. This is awesome in theory given the winter months and other aspects, but the fact that armies without generals are completely unaffected kind of spoils it for me.

Check this. In a Roman game I had a big invasion fleet of about 8 ships with full stacks headed off to the shores of Ptolemy's Egypt. That invasion had to be postboned 2 or 3 seasons because generals would suddenly accrue negative stats, and the WHOLE DAMN BOAT would incapable of moving, or would be able to move a fraction of what it should. He's just a 78 year old leprous Gallic King, throw him in the hold and keep a' sailing!

Love this mod to death, btw. Wish the people who made Rome in the first place had the EB teams' vision.

[The Almohad]

Thanks, I forgot entirely about the recruitment viewer, a little confusing till I studied it for a minute. The people who made this mod should apply for jobs at CA, or find some bored investor looking to get into the business and start their own studio. Thats pretty funny with what happened to your invasion fleet, its also kind of odd too because I would think it would have to be the admiral who would have to get sick in order for the ship to slow down or move less.

[MisterFred]

Type I government - Useful (and only permitted) in homeland regions. All infrastructure buildings available. Only government that allows Lvl 5 factional barracks for the very best/elite factional troops. Lvl 1& 2? regionals only.

Type II government - Useful (and only permitted) in homeland and subjugation regions. Most infrastructure buildings available (for most? factions, all economic or infrastructure buildings available). For some factions, represents a different style of government from Type I rather than being inferior (for instance Koinon Hellenon, whose Type II is better than the Type I economically, and the only troop type you sacrifice is Spartans). Lvl 4 factional barracks for the majority (sometimes all, depending on the province) of high quality factional units available. Lvl 3? regional barracks also available.

Type III government - Permitted everywhere, and so in the farthest provinces the only 'full-control' option available. Also useful because it builds fast, is cheap, and usually gives decent inherent bonuses. Although some of the more advanced buildings (markets, happiness, etc) cannot be built, a reasonable level of development can be achieved. In some campaigns, when I need new cities to grow economically quickly, I will start a newly-conquered homeland or "subjugation available" as a Lvl3 government until I get most of the buildings and basic infrastructure built, then switch to a Lvl I or II government later. Allows basic, reliable faction troops to be recruited: Lvl 3 factional barracks permitted (the point where hellenic factions can get classical hoplites...) as well as most of the better regional troops: lvl 4? regional barracks also available.

Type IV government - the 'allied' government option. Gives your family members increasing (and heavy) negative public order penalties when they are in the city, but permits the recruitment of "allied general" and "client ruler" units, both of which are expensive but incredibly useful. The allied general unit is obvious, but be careful, it's hard to get rid of these guys (I don't think you can disband them). Client Rulers usually get excellent management and influence stats and good traits, and are designed to manage provinces with normally unruly populations. Client rulers help the profitability of Type IV cities, aside from their upkeep, and help offset the availability of only basic infrastructure buildings. Can be used as generals (but -50% movement penalty outside of cities), but not as governors in your home towns (increasing public order penalties in cities without a Type IV government, like faction members in an allied city). Only the meanest of factional levies are available (if any are even permitted in the province: lvl 1&2 factional barracks only. But all regional units are available. In some provinces this is necessary to get special regional units: Lvl 5 regional barracks available (check recruitment viewer to see what each level of barracks will get you: show province details and play around with the display options).

Also make sure you read the FAQ and start the script .

[MisterFred]

Type IV governments can be a bit of a double-edged sword. I was having a heck of a difficult time trying to expand out of Arabia as the Saba one game (Ptolies kept kicking me out of Africa by making me depopulate my cities before I could turn the tide militarily and I had a fail naval invasion of India - popular revolt) until I managed to break the eastern half of Arche Seleucia, begin a Type IV government in India, and conquer west again.

Essentially, I lost the family members leading my army in a major assault on Charax (one dead normally, one fell off a stone wall in the assault, lol). So I experimented by hiring an allied general, which I had just found out about. The AS were sending some giant mega-elite stack to retake Charax, so I abandoned the city and took my army raiding, heading to Susa under my allied general. To my surprise, I sacked Susa, blew up a few marketplaces and non-barracks non-wonder buildings and continued on, hiring mercenaries and starting some infrastructure projects back home with the proceeds, and proceeded to terrorize the lightly defended AS interior, taking (for only a few turns) Gabai, Persepolois, Karmara, Prophthasia, and Alexandropolis, slowly building up a considerable warchest and a formidable army of mercenaries while allowing AS to reconquer behind me.

I ended the rampage by Opiana after hiring the entire Indian mercenary pool (remembering the fail naval invasion and the fact the coastal province in India can't recruit client rulers), installing the wildly successful allied general as a client ruler. I then (slowly and carefully) conquered the other two Indian provinces (much later Kophen), installed Type IV governments and client rulers, then after a long period of building up India's economy and waiting for a build-up of funds, headed back west. I would hire a mercenary army supplemented with large numbers of expendable (and easily recruitable) Indian Spearmen and Indian Bowmen, give the army an allied general, and send it west along either the southern (Pura, Karmara, Persepolis, Gabai, Susa, Charax) or northern (Alexandropolis, Prophtasia, Ariana, Hekatompylos, Ekbatana) Iranian routes. A city would be conquered and sacked, I'd build a Type IV government (thus installing the allied general as a client ruler), hire a few more mercenaries to replace losses and garrisons, and send the army farther west along whatever route it was on after I hired another allied general from the newly conquered city.

Once I finally re-emerged from India, in a surprisingly short amount of time I solidly held the line of Hekatompylos, Gabai, and Persopolis, as well as everything east to India. Eventually I ran into elite troop spam coming out of Mesopotamia, and a stalemate began to build up again where Susa, Ekbatana, and Phraapsa might belong to any one of AS, myself, or one of the buffer kingdoms I frequently tried to create by gifting cities to western factions and I half-heartedly built up the infrastructure of my new possessions.

And I did all this with just mercenaries, the meanest of Indian levies, and Type IV governments with client rules and allied generals. Not a single factional troop or family member involved. Sounds great, right?

Well, sort of. Even though the provinces I conquered were filthy with mines and I even had a Persian Gulf sea trade going, I wasn't actually making money from the whole affair. Between the depopulation of the general region and the numerous expenses (upkeep on numerous expensive client rulers absolutely necessary to maintain public order, corruption, the small-war with AS, and very healthy garrisons in Kophen, Ariana, and Hekatompylos to keep the Saka Rauka and Parthians from backstabbing me - I REALLY couldn't afford to fight them), I wasn't actually making any money. My entire Indo-Iranian side empire was essentially a break-even venture. I had to use profits from my homelands in Arabia to fund major offensives like attempts to create a buffer between the AS and myself or for major public works (regional barracks), and even in the better, more stable times, my overall profit per turn was the same as when I'd only controlled the six south Arabian cities.

Other than adding a sizeable brown splotch to the mini-map, the two main effects of the massive several-decade campaign had been an increase in the volatility, but not overall health, of my profits and an increase in baby-making as the engine decided the new cities (with no family members) meant the family tree needed to be quickly expanded.

Which would later lead to re-invading Africa yet again with an army made of twelve Saba faction members and some scattered units of random Arabian levy spam, but I've taken enough of your time already...

Anyway, that's my largest Type IV government experiement.

[MisterFred]

A quick note for Bonapartist - when you click on a fleet, it selects both the ships AND the troops in the hold. As a result, the troops movement rates affect the ships. If you go down to the unit window and click on the individual ships (make sure you don't split up your fleet) you can move much farther because it will ignore the troops inside the ships (although you can't land them if they're out of movement). This allows you to go MUCH faster at sea.

I played a lot of campaigns before I learned that. Very frustrating.

When on land, Moving just short of maximum with your armies (leaving a tiny square of green around them) allows you to retreat once if necessary on the campaign map AND slows down the accrual of 'forced marching', 'tired' and other things - apparently the engine can recognize the complete depletion of movement points but not all of them. Also 'vigorous' is better than uh... the opposite one.

[The Almohad]

Thanks for all the info folks, and for the interesting story MisterFred. I cant say I have played extensively enough to try anything crazy yet, I've only gotten about 20 years in, I'm actually quite unsure where to go as Baktria because I can't afford much, and I'm super worried about the Saka, those stupid nobles make me want to tear my hair out. But I think I have a better idea of what to do now.

[The Almohad]

Thanks for that hint too, never would have figured that out but by accident.

[Moros]

you should upgrade to 1.2 with all the fixes from the fixes thread though...