U - tactic doesn't work in M2TW

[Paladin94610]

In SS 6.1, M/M diff. as England.
William Wallace emerges and I have only a few troops in Edinburgh and so he assaulted the city. They break through the gate and rush in where I have formed a U shaped bottleneck with 3 units of levy spearmen. My U-shape is still in shape for about 1 min. Then it got distorted and torn into pieces and got destroyed easily. If I use the old tactic of bottleneck with 3 units overlapping one another completely in the gate house with Guard Mode on and wait for those Scots come I might hold out for longer and may have killed about 500 Scots compared to my real results of 600 loss and 380 kills. Is that happen because I have very few troops or they are rushing in with huge mass of men anyway, it is clear that my units got pushed back by enemy ( not fighting my men, they just pushed my men with their bodies) and when U is broken they have their melee may be a massacre. I don't think U defense doesn't work in SS 6.1. What do you think guys?

[Hektor27]

been there, known that. I believe those troops pushing you are probably pikemen because in SS, pikemen in general have very large mass value (in EDU file) which allow them to push back other troops very effectively. This high mass value is aimed at representing the pushing force of a pike phalanx in field battle, however, it becomes an unwanted side effect in siege battles.

[Theseus1234]

Well I don't do a strict U shape. It's more of a ( on its side, that way I eliminate corners, and thus strategic weakpoints. You don't want ALL of your militia holding the gate, have most there, and a few as reserves to contain the enemy. Also, archers and javelinmen are helpful in most cases as they can cause casualties for the highly concentrated-enemy. I usually keep cavalry a bit of a distance away, so I can charge them in to deliver a final blow to the enemy.

Make sure to tailor your defense to your enemy. The U is great for infantry and cavalry, but fails when it comes to pikes, as Hektor stated. You'd probably want a more mobile defense. Lure the pikemen to an intersection, and then hit them hard on the side as they follow your bait unit. That requires more flexibility in your defense, though. It's best to deal with pikemen with archers on the wall or behind the palisade.

EDIT: In SS on H/H on my Aragon campaign (which I'm doing an AAR of. Check the sig [shameless self-promotion! ]), I usually find it's just a big grindfest until I can kill the general, who generally ( a general generally does something ) rides through my defense and exposes him to my reserves. Once I kill him, the rest of the army is usually sent packing by my high-dread general.

[strategist.com]

Doing real life tactics are difficult to do in videogames.

[spH3RiCal]

With U formation you have thinner lines than with the overlapping one, thus they break easier. But if you can combine your U formation with some archers and/or javelins shooting directly in the U, I think you ll get the advantage.

[melkor1861]

On SS, I have also noticed that the U does not work at well on Bridges or in Gateways as it did in Vanilla. As previously stated, a couple of units of javelinmen or archers can tip the balance in your favor. Another favorite tactic of mine is that, when the U units and reserves are coming close to being depleted, charge your Heavy Cavalry and missile units into th flanks of the U. The shock of the charge and the freshness of the troops can often start a chain reaction rout. This works especially well if you have won the battle on the walls and send a unit or two down the enemy's own ladders or siege towers and into thier rear.

[Stolet]

You should never count on a 3-unit U, especially not if the 3 units are Levy Spearmen. They will get pushed, it will break they're lines and your Spearmen will be defeated. If you can't afford more than 3 units, don't deploy at the gates, instead deploy at the town square. The enemy will come from a street, which is more narrow space than the space in front of the gates. Your spears should hold out longer in the center square, you may even win. Plus, AI often sends his general first to the square.

[Paladin94610]

You should never count on a 3-unit U, especially not if the 3 units are Levy Spearmen. They will get pushed, it will break they're lines and your Spearmen will be defeated. If you can't afford more than 3 units, don't deploy at the gates, instead deploy at the town square. The enemy will come from a street, which is more narrow space than the space in front of the gates. Your spears should hold out longer in the center square, you may even win. Plus, AI often sends his general first to the square.

Oh, I have only 7 levy spearmen as garrison. William Wallace emerges and I am not prepared for it and his army is full stack and mine only 7 units. And I noticed pikemen are very effective both against infantry and cavalry, 47 Flemish Pikemen kill more than100 armored sergeant and 50 light men-at-arms before they die.
EDIT : I forgot one more thing, It's in SS 6.1!

[Stolet]

If you have 7 units, probably the best thing you can do is make an "U" in the center square. Make the U with 6 spearmen units and put your general (the remaining spearmen unit) right behind them and keep him out of the fight, otherwise you may easily lose him, retreating an infantry general from the fight is much harder than retreating a cavalry one. So, make the U with 6 units, two in each line of the U shape, so your lines are thicker. Even in SS, the AI is often not smart enough to march the long way in order to flank you. And if it does, it'll send 1 or 2 units, so you can use your general to intercept that. Oh yeah, and what does William Wallace have in his stack? His army shouldn't be of great quality, I remember seing bunch of Highland Rabble there.

[Theseus1234]

You might have to make do with losing the settlement. Pikemen are a pain to deal with in SS and the only way you can counter them is hitting them on the flanks. Unfortunately, such a plan would leave you vulnerable to the other troops in his army. When you make your U, don't even allow for sides. Make it like a shallow V, a very shallow V, and then put a unit of troops in the middle, straight across, so it looks like a V. Another option in this case would be to leave the gates open, and have your army on both sides, one closer to the other. Hopefully, the Scots will follow your closer army and put all of their attention on them, at which point you can charge in with your other army, and hopefully cause some casualties, if not a rout.

[Paladin94610]

Anyway, William Wallace lost 2units of Highland Nobles on the walls. I plundered the city destroying everything to get money and left them with a desolate city with income of 900s, originally been 1590 florins. I send a spy from the plagued city of Aberdeen into Edinburgh after losing it. Edinburgh was also infected by plague and I never see William again, probably died in plague. LL!!

[King Of Scotland]

You coulnd't beat Wallace in a fair fight so you affected him with plague... perfetic (joke).
Looks like the Scots are still matchless...

[Old Geezer]

Pikemen will push heavy cavalry and bodyguard across the city square; they look like they are sliding on ice!

I don't try to use a U defense at the gatehouse; I use a V defense (really a V) and to hold the gate it helps to have your men charge the enemy just as they are entering the gate and also charge into them with some reserves, including cavalry. The reserves and cavalry don't actually join in the combat but their mass seems to help keep the defenders from being pushed back. If you can hold the pikemen in the gate and get enough oil on them it should help immensely - it does when fighting the Mongols and Timurids.

[Rakoua]

In M/M, my pikemen get tons and tons of kills early game in sieges. I just get some assault infantry to take the walls and use pikemen to kill the tons and tons and tons of English levy spearmen, especialy at the square. To kill pikemen, just get some peasant archers, put them at the wall and target the pikes. Or put them at the flanks of the pikes as they advance trough the gates. Pikemen are vonurable to missiles.

[Steven the conqueror]

Just a minutes ago some rebels attack carlise I only had spearmans and my general, so I try the U shaped tactic and it works but with lots of troops xD 3 sergeant spearman in a ( formation 2 spear militia supporting the sides, a levy spearman supporting the middle and town militia supporting the supporting levy spearmans xD also ready to cover a retreat....yeah it was a mod, but in this mod cavalry can easily break shield walls and they gone some fine mailed knights actually they nearly break throught the barrier if I didnt take out my generals for another door and then flank them xD