"Permanent Removal of Rank" Clarification Bill

**Simetrical** · July 18, 2010, 07:09 PM

I propose the following:

Proposer: Simetrical
Supporters: Legio, Justinian, Viking Prince

Section IV, Article I of the Constitution should be changed as follows:

CdeC Warning:

Suspension of rank for 1 week
Suspension of rank for 2 weeks
Suspension of rank for 1 month
Suspension of rank for 2 months
~~Permanent~~ Removal of Rank

Furthermore, the Curia resolves that it was always the intent of the Constitution that Citizenship can be restored through the usual procedure after being revoked. Thus anyone who had their Citizenship removed under the old wording or any previous procedure may reapply at any time under the same conditions as a member who was never a Citizen.

I'd have thought this was unnecessary, but in fact, one person in the CdeC maintains that when the Constitution says "permanent" it means to prevent any reapplication in the future. I think this plainly contradicts Section III, and that the word "permanent" here clearly means "not temporary" rather than "irreversible", but since the ambiguity can be resolved by the deletion of one word, I think this would be wise.

**Legio** · July 18, 2010, 07:10 PM

CdeC Support.

**Justinian** · July 18, 2010, 07:12 PM

Support. Permanently barring a member from becoming a Citizen for the rest of their lifetime on the site is ridiculous; we cannot predict the future.

**Mega Tortas de Bodemloze** · July 18, 2010, 07:12 PM

Support.

Looks up at Teacher...

Hmmmm...

**Augustus Lucifer** · July 18, 2010, 07:16 PM

Support.

Also good form including the second bit for good measure. Hopefully it won't be necessary to discuss why something should not be able to be interpreted as permanent and irreversible given the transience of the internet.

**Viking Prince** · July 18, 2010, 07:12 PM

a cautious support. A half step is better than not beginning the journey.

**Nanny de Bodemloze** · July 18, 2010, 07:14 PM

Support. 'Permanent' is a useless word really in this case...there is nothing that can't be undone anyways.

**M D** · July 18, 2010, 08:43 PM

Slight Support, may change however

**Nole4694** · July 18, 2010, 08:49 PM

I would say Indefinate Removal or Rank, or something along those lines.

Support anyways though.

**Augustus Lucifer** · July 18, 2010, 08:52 PM

Originally Posted by Nole4694

I would say Indefinate Removal or Rank, or something along those lines.

Support anyways though.

That would imply something like VP's proposal though where the CdeC has to review its previous decision and determine a definite end. The current wording just says 'now it's removed' and then the Patronization section decides who can regain it.

**Bokks** · July 21, 2010, 07:05 PM

Originally Posted by Nole4694

I would say Indefinate Removal or Rank, or something along those lines.

Support anyways though.

I dunno, that would establish the same issue--if not more of one--as the wording as it stands. (as in, a member who is indefinately banned will never be seen on the site again)

I do think that there is a need to specify that a member will lose their rank until such a time as the CdeC deems it appropriate to reinstate it, but without any idea as to how to word that in an appropriately laconic fashion I support the OP.

**Nole4694** · July 21, 2010, 07:53 PM

Indefinate actually implies that the punishment will be removed at some unkown point. Which is more along the lines of VP's proposal as AL pointed out to me.

From thefreedictionary:

in·def·i·nite (

n-d

f

-n

t)
adj. Not definite, especially:
a. Unclear; vague.
b. Lacking precise limits: an indefinite leave of absence.
c. Uncertain; undecided: indefinite about their plans.

So hah! You should be agreeing with me

**Nanny de Bodemloze** · July 18, 2010, 09:24 PM

Originally Posted by La♔De♔Da♔Brigadier Graham

however if this goes through would that mean that any citizen who has lost the rank, perhaps in deplorable circumstances is allowed back, I mean scenarios where the removal has been applied because of unspeakable crimes?

in that case, wouldn't they just end up banned from the forums anyways?

**Simetrical** · July 18, 2010, 09:25 PM

Originally Posted by La♔De♔Da♔Brigadier Graham

Support in theory, it is a little harsh to have the rank removed permanently.... however if this goes through would that mean that any citizen who has lost the rank, perhaps in deplorable circumstances is allowed back, I mean scenarios where the removal has been applied because of unspeakable crimes?

If the crime is unforgivable in the eyes of the CdeC, they just won't let them back. If the CdeC decides to forgive them, it can. That's as it should be. The CdeC should not be allowed to prohibit all future CdeCs from restoring a removed rank.

**Lord Condormanius** · July 18, 2010, 09:39 PM

Support. At present, I would have to agree with your one CdeC member...the current language is pretty clear. However, I agree with the argument that there really shouldn't be any absolutely permanent loss of rank. I don't think that was the original idea here.