Three Kingdoms: Total War

[Koujow]

This thread's purpose is not to gather a team together as of yet but instead to find out who would be interested in working on such a game, who would like to play it and maybe even exchange some ideas and concepts.

For those who do not know what I mean when I say Three Kingdoms, I am referring to the famous (and heavily romanticized) Warring States period of China ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Kingdoms ). This period is one of the most famous periods in Chinese history due to the epic novel written about the time period, Romance of Three Kingdoms. There have been several games (Dynasty Warriors and Romance of Three Kingdoms), movies (John Woo's Red Cliff) and a TV series based on this time period.

A quick synopsis of the era is;
After about 400 years of rule, the Han Dynasty had become corrupt and the Emperor's weak. A new religion called the Way of Peace or the Yellow Turbans (Yellow Scarves) led by the 'prophet' Zhang Jiao attempt to overthrow the dynasty. Unprepared for the conflict, the Emperor declares that every city needs to raise their own army and fight the Yellow Turbans. This gave local governors and warlords considerable amount of power and after the Yellow Turbans were defeated, one Warlord took the opportunity upon himself and took of the Capital and the Emperor (Dong Zhuo).
Eventually, the rest of China unifies against Dong Zhuo but fail to defeat him. His own adopted son would later betray him and kill him. What was left was a power vacuum that created a civil war between several warlords.
The Three Kingdoms refer to the three major factions that would eventually rise from this period. The Wei, lead by Cao Cao, who had taken control of the Capital and the Emperor (just like Dong Zhuo before him), Shu, lead by Liu Bei and fielded by a list of famous officers and generals, and Wu, lead by the Sun family and masters of naval combat.
Eventually, Wei would overpower the other factions and nearly unify China before the Jin usurped the Wei and created their own dynasty.


Faction Concepts
Yellow Turbans
Dong Zhuo' Army
Liu Bei's Army
Cao Cao's Army
Sun Jian's Army
Lu Bu's Army
He Jin's army
Yuan Shao's Army
Gongsun Zan's Army
Ma Teng's Army
Nanman Tribes
(There are a whole host of other factions that were around, but I can not think of them off hand).

Troops
Generally, since nearly all factions were technically a part of the same government (Han China), most troops would be similar, if not the same, as the other factions troops. However, each faction would have a few Unique soldiers (Yuan Shao had famous Horsebowmen and Wei/Cao Cao's army had strong Calvary).

Generals/Officers
Officers were very famous during this era (Such as Guan Yu and Zhang Fei, who eventually became worshipped Gods after their deaths). Zhang Fei was reported to hold back an army of soldiers by single handedly fighting them on a bridge while his lord retreated, Zhang Liao defeated 10,000 soldiers with 300 calvary units and other similar stories.


Thoughts? Ideas? Views? Opinions? Smart Remarks?

[feroXXXed35]

sounds like interesting mod
you could watch "red cliff" for unit inspirations

[Wundai]

Yes mate, very interesting indeed!

[Rev.]

Red Cliff,Good film .I think the looks of arms in the film are historical

[Wundai]

Indeed, i even doubted if they literally tried to find actors to find the character description of the figures in Dynasty Warriors, they look alike so much!

[ray243]

There's already a Three Kingdom mod out there.

[Arbitrary Crusader]

There's already a Three Kingdom mod out there.

In Rome total war BI

[Pazu the Kitsune]

'Three Kingdoms: Total War', the mod for Rome TW BI, is, in my opinion, one of the greatest TW mods of all time.

I would fail to see the point of re making the mod for Medieval 2 TW, even if u give it a different name (u probably will have to give it a different name regardless so that people dont get confused).

However, if u are willing to wait until CA releases mod tools for the Empire TW engine, then u could make it a mod for Shogun 2, and THAT could have the potential to surpass the Three Kingdoms mod for RTW BI.

Otherwise, if ur interested in Chinese history then u could consider doing a mod about a different era, China is very old and there are plenty of eras to choose from

[r3deed]

I downloaded this mod 1 year ago but it wasn't polish as what i saw in a youtube trailer.
I rembered that I worked on the script files replacing the chinese with english.
some member of that forume posted but it didn;t feel like it was a serious mod.
some non chinese units abit like europeans appeared in chinese map.
I wished if there is a complete mod for this.

I wished that army looks likes like those in koei games Dynatsy warriors.
however I wished if any city of that mod has a unigue units that could have special stat. '
I hoped that generals should never die just like in napolean total war.

[Wundai]

Well Pazu I don't see you waiting with Siam Total War until they Release Tools for Empire/Shogun 2 etc? You also switched to M2TW.

I think he has a point in wanting to make this mod on M2TW engine(at least considering it), just like Druvatar is doing with his Japanese Mod.

[Pazu the Kitsune]

Well Pazu I don't see you waiting with Siam Total War until they Release Tools for Empire/Shogun 2 etc? You also switched to M2TW.

I think he has a point in wanting to make this mod on M2TW engine(at least considering it), just like Druvatar is doing with his Japanese Mod.

Fair enough, my only arguement would be that there are very few new features in Medieval 2 TW that you cant already achieve with Rome TW, however it was a fun mod and if he truly wishes to re create it on the Medieval 2 engine then id support that

But maybe u could make slight modifications, such as including korea, japan or more of SE Asia....just ideas

[Koujow]

Fair enough, my only arguement would be that there are very few new features in Medieval 2 TW that you cant already achieve with Rome TW, however it was a fun mod and if he truly wishes to re create it on the Medieval 2 engine then id support that

But maybe u could make slight modifications, such as including korea, japan or more of SE Asia....just ideas

That mod is already in development... it is called All Under Heaven and it takes place a thousand years later. XD

[Koujow]

On the note that there is a Three Kingdom's mod for RTW, I will take a look at it. However, I do own both RTW and MTW, but I rarely play RTW. I personally enjoy MTW and it's mechanical changes more. Nothing against RTW, just a personal preference.

[Wundai]

Later? Are you sure its not earlier?
Granted I'm no history man, but I thought the Three kingdoms period was pretty recent( haha recent compared to all the other history China has) do you know the dates of the Three Kingdoms Period by any chance?

[Koujow]

The Three Kingdoms era began 184 A.D. and ended 280 A.D. Following the unification of China under the Qin, the land was split again and reunified by the Han. The Han ruled for about around 400 years, upon which they collapsed due to corruption just after the Yellow Turban rebellion in 184, although it would continue to exist until Cao Cao's son, Cao Pi, declared himself second Emperor of Wei (Cao Cao was posthumously named the first Emperor, although he had been the Regent and used the Emperor like a puppet.) However, Cao Pi was betrayed by the Sima family, who took control of Wei and created the Jin dynasty.

The Song Dynasty, which is the dynasty during the All Under Heaven mod, begins in 960 A.D. following ANOTHER civil war (5 Dynasties and 10 Kingdom Era...) and ended in 1279 A.D. when the Mongol's conquered them and created the Yuan dynasty.

The Three Kingdom's period is a Chinese version of antiquity. The stories are bigger and on a much more epic scale and the heroes greater. Not to say that the major people from later eras are less important. However, several of the people in this era were deified after their death, partly because the stories are so ancient and the lessons they teach are a kind of founding to many Chinese systems. Ironically, the previous periods only gave birth to three influential figures, although they very well be the most important figures in Chinese history; Sun Tzu, Lao Tzu and Kong Fu Zi (Confucius). They created the laws that Chinese society would live by, both in War and in Domestics. But it is the figures in the Three Kingdom's era that become exemplars of these things.

I highly suggest that even if you aren't interested in a potential mod, to read the books or at the very least the wikipedia article on the setting. I own the Chinese version of the book... but ironically not an English version! XD

[Wundai]

Thanks for the information Koujow, very interesting

[Yelü Dashi]

Koujow - one question if you wouldn't mind humouring me: can you mod ?

[Koujow]

My shame has been discovered!
To a limited degree, yes. I do have some programming experience (about a year of program classes at my campus) and am looking through the various files right now to kind of get an idea of how they all work. However, either this or another game I applied to would be my first official mod experiences. I went to my local library today to find some books on the subject as well, but the damn place has a grand total of 2 books in general (well, maybe a few more), so they were of little help.

The first major bump in the road would be my beginner mod experience. A bump that I am aware of, but working on removing! lol

I feel I have also just destroyed any chance of getting interest in this... my noobness greatly shames me... >.<

[Wundai]

lol no harm mate, you did tell us up front you just asked for the "interest" of such a mod

You weren't diving in recruiting members without working out a plan

[Koujow]

What would your opinion be on generals? In the Three Kingdom's period, many famous personalities supposedly performed epic deeds. Such as;

-Zhang Fei singly handedly held off Cao Cao's army while Liu Bei retreated. (I think in the novel, Cao Cao didn't attack because he feared some kind of trap. In Dynasty Warriors, Zhang Fei fought them all. In Red Cliff, Zhang Fei led his troops against Cao Cao and fought long enough to allow Liu Bei's retreat to get away.)
-Zhao Yun charged into Cao Cao's marching army so that he could save Liu Bei's wife and children. He couldn't save the wife, but he carried the the infant child to safety.
-Zhang Liao fought and defeated 10,000 Wu soldiers with only 300 horsemen.
-Etc. Etc.

If such a game was made, would players prefer stronger than normal generals or regular generals? To balance powerful general units, they could either be small troops or maybe even solo units (I think Third Age Total War made Balrogs as solo units in their newest update. I havent tested it yet, but I thought I read that somewhere).