cannon targeting

Anyone else having trouble getting their cannons to target the units you've actually clicked on? They just seem to shoot randomly no matter what I tell them to target, even when I turn 'fire at will' off.
I'd like to send my cavalry in to disrupt units but currently I can't because I never know when the cannons will suddenly shoot the wrong unit.

Well, the target unit command lets the guns not shoot the center of a unit, but at its flanks (which may give you the impression it's shooting at the unit next to it)... wouldn't go so far as to call it random.
I don't think anybody knows why it is this way.

The most effective way to use your cannons is not to click a unit to target it, but rather to click the ground just in front of (the center of) the unit.
You'll notice the AI knows when you've clicked directly on its units and will often move them (especially AI General units), but they do not recognize they've been targeted when you click near to the unit instead.

Originally Posted by klesh

The most effective way to use your cannons is not to click a unit to target it, but rather to click the ground just in front of (the center of) the unit.

That is correct, but I can't really recommend to do that.
If the target unit moves, the targeting has to be readjusted, it's just too much micro IMHO.

What I do is target my primary targets (cavalry most of the time, or elites); if none is in range, set to autotarget.
It works fine this way, I often get lots of kills from artillery.

Originally Posted by daniu

That is correct, but I can't really recommend to do that.
If the target unit moves, the targeting has to be readjusted, it's just too much micro IMHO.

It is a ton of micromanagement, to be sure. I happen to pause my battles about every 10 seconds.

The best thing is that when an enemy army form a blob in front of their general, a roundshot can easily wipe out a whole column of men and reach their general. And always target walking cavalry, they are easy to aim and AI usually deploy them into deep ranks, causing more kills and casualities.

Originally Posted by daniu

Well, the target unit command lets the guns not shoot the center of a unit, but at its flanks (which may give you the impression it's shooting at the unit next to it)... wouldn't go so far as to call it random.
I don't think anybody knows why it is this way.

Well I've always known that with grapeshot, I've not noticed it with round shot though that's probably because it's less accurate. The trouble I have is they are targeting units a long way from where I'm suggesting they shoot, often across the front of my own lines and hitting each other, or after I tell them to use grapeshot on a close target they shoot at some routing unit out of range and waste a bunch of shots. They're not just hitting flanks or being a little bit inaccurate, they're targeting whole other units some distance away!

Originally Posted by klesh

The most effective way to use your cannons is not to click a unit to target it, but rather to click the ground just in front of (the center of) the unit.
You'll notice the AI knows when you've clicked directly on its units and will often move them (especially AI General units), but they do not recognize they've been targeted when you click near to the unit instead.

That might work, so long as they follow the order. I do notice the AI knows when it's targeted, and it also knows precise safe spots on the maps where it's harder to hit them. Usually it doesn't help them much though, can't stay there forever.

Originally Posted by daniu

What I do is target my primary targets (cavalry most of the time, or elites); if none is in range, set to autotarget.
It works fine this way, I often get lots of kills from artillery.

Well, I tell them to shoot the targets I want, but they seem to ignore me. Autotarget is an absolute C*ck for my own troops. If the enemy gets remotely near my lines I turn it off, the cannons seem to prefer targets engaging in melee with my troops over the ones in front of them, in the open. Or it likes to grapeshot units out of range(though I have this issue with forced targeting).

Originally Posted by Prince Francesca

The best thing is that when an enemy army form a blob in front of their general, a roundshot can easily wipe out a whole column of men and reach their general. And always target walking cavalry, they are easy to aim and AI usually deploy them into deep ranks, causing more kills and casualities.

Cavalry are a big target and die very easily, but the best advice is to target any elite troops. They're just as vulnerable to cannon fire as any useless troop is.

Originally Posted by lemming3k

Well, I tell them to shoot the targets I want, but they seem to ignore me.

Another thing to consider is that you have to select targets to individual units, i.e. with only one selected.
If you select, say, three artillery units and then a target, the attack order will be "spread out" to neighboring enemy units for some reason.

the cannons seem to prefer targets engaging in melee with my troops over the ones in front of them, in the open.

I'm pretty sure the autotarget algorithm targets the first unit that comes into range and keeps it until it moves out of range.

Or it likes to grapeshot units out of range(though I have this issue with forced targeting).

Yes, that's another problem with manual target assignment, it goes for roundshot too.

Originally Posted by daniu

Another thing to consider is that you have to select targets to individual units, i.e. with only one selected.
If you select, say, three artillery units and then a target, the attack order will be "spread out" to neighboring enemy units for some reason.

That's probably what's happening. Really gets annoying when there's only one "effective" target for them to hit but they're insistant on shooting at others.

I'm pretty sure the autotarget algorithm targets the first unit that comes into range and keeps it until it moves out of range.

Interesting, haven't really tested that.

Yes, that's another problem with manual target assignment, it goes for roundshot too.

Sounds like I need to babysit my artillery even more than I already am! I pretty much don't use autofire anymore as it seems so ineffectual, especially when I switch to grapeshot. Damn.

I often formed all of my artillery into one or two groups and order them to fire at the same target, which reduces micro-management and also inflicts massive damage that can rout many elite and cav units before they reach me.

I usaully have artillery infront of my liens surroudned by gernadiers.

Though in every single total war game, the generals are like magnets to artillery fire. Even your own artillery will practically try to hit your general.

I have only had Napoleon die (wounded) twice, once by enemy cannon fire at the first 3 seconds of the battle, and another by my own artillery at the end of the battle while chasing enemies down.

I have learned my lesson and I never put artillery at fire at will anymore. I'm what you can call a mirco manger, when it comes to artillery. In every total war game you cannot trust your artillery.

Originally Posted by Emperor of The Great Unknown

I have learned my lesson and I never put artillery at fire at will anymore. I'm what you can call a mirco manger, when it comes to artillery. In every total war game you cannot trust your artillery.

It's true. I find it helps to order the artillery to cease fire before you give them new orders. Sometimes they can become confused when you tell them to attack a group then attack another and continue to fire at the original target.

Originally Posted by Emperor of The Great Unknown

I usaully have artillery infront of my liens surroudned by gernadiers.

Though in every single total war game, the generals are like magnets to artillery fire. Even your own artillery will practically try to hit your general.

I have only had Napoleon die (wounded) twice, once by enemy cannon fire at the first 3 seconds of the battle, and another by my own artillery at the end of the battle while chasing enemies down.

I have learned my lesson and I never put artillery at fire at will anymore. I'm what you can call a mirco manger, when it comes to artillery. In every total war game you cannot trust your artillery.

In NTW I rarely chased enemy routers with generals (especially the ones I like: e.g. Napoleon, Davout, Wellington, Kutuzov, and such), and I always unlimbered my art when the battle is over.
In ETW with no historical generals I'm not hesitant to send them into action (unless they are the starting ones) since you can mass spawn hundreds of them if you have enough money.

Originally Posted by Prince Francesca

In NTW I rarely chased enemy routers with generals (especially the ones I like: e.g. Napoleon, Davout, Wellington, Kutuzov, and such), and I always unlimbered my art when the battle is over.

Definitely this. While roundshot artillery can usually barely hit the broad side of a farmhouse, they will unerringly pick out your general among his bodyguards and blast him into the ground. Pack up the artillery pieces and send them behind a hill when the cavalry units begins the cleanup phase. Saves a lot of unnecessary hiring of new general officers.

I've also had Napoleon trip over a random routing infantryman while chasing them down, when the battle was basically over. It seems either routers can still inflict some damage to pursuing cav, or there is always some random chance of losing a cav soldier when charging into infantry.

Originally Posted by valentinian

Definitely this. While roundshot artillery can usually barely hit the broad side of a farmhouse, they will unerringly pick out your general among his bodyguards and blast him into the ground. Pack up the artillery pieces and send them behind a hill when the cavalry units begins the cleanup phase. Saves a lot of unnecessary hiring of new general officers.

I've also had Napoleon trip over a random routing infantryman while chasing them down, when the battle was basically over. It seems either routers can still inflict some damage to pursuing cav, or there is always some random chance of losing a cav soldier when charging into infantry.

Yep. Even in 1vs1 cavalry vs. routing unit fight your cav seem to lose some men.... (especially in ETW), which is quite realistic because fleeing men can still fight for their lives.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRvpFsYi6Nc