How to make grenadiers useful (?)

Ok, buffing the reload skill for the grenadiers in the last patch is a step in the right direction, but it isn't enough to make grenadiers useful. You see, grenadiers is an expensive slot waste because their stats aren't high enough to compete with line infantry, but their cost is high. Also, their grenades are pity fireworks that don't kill anything.
So here are some different suggestions to make grenadiers useful.

1. Make them cheaper. Yeah, that's a simple solution, but isn't very effective.
2. Increase their unit size to that of line infantry. Basically it's a good solution but unfortunately not going to happen as CA stated that they won't change unit sizes to avoid problems with save-games.
3. Increase their melee stats. (self-explanatory)
4. Increase damage of their grenades. It's possible, but requires a lot of micro-managing to be useful
4. (my favourite) give them 'scare enemies' and 'high stamina' traits. That being done, the grenadiers will become a potent specialist force worth their cost because they will be shock troops that can penetrate enemy lines and cause havoc. I advocate for this because it is original gameplay-wise and also historical accurate.

Discuss!

Originally Posted by HellFell

4. (my favourite) give them 'scare enemies' and 'high stamina' traits. That being done, the grenadiers will become a potent specialist force worth their cost because they will be shock troops that can penetrate enemy lines and cause havoc. I advocate for this because it is original gameplay-wise and also historical accurate.

Discuss!

Definately agree with this suggestion! It actually makes sense to have them frighten enemy units due to their massive height plus the increased durability, due to the high stamina, will mean they can charge units and stay in combat for longer increasing their melee capabilties. Great suggestion! +Rep!

And ca is quite happy to change unit sizes, prime example being cannons which went from four to five guns.

Originally Posted by Josst

And ca is quite happy to change unit sizes, prime example being cannons which went from four to five guns.

I believe number of cannons and unit size are quite different things.

Originally Posted by Josst

And ca is quite happy to change unit sizes, prime example being cannons which went from four to five guns.

All my batteries still have 4 guns . . .

Originally Posted by Nimitstexan

All my batteries still have 4 guns . . .

mine too

I disagree with increasing the unit size because I like putting my grenadiers in 2 rank fire and advance which I find alot better than 3 rank fire and advance because you need to quickly fire off the volleys then charge. So I agree with stat boost and the good stamina ability.

I'm not quite sure about the Scare enemy ability because It could be abit too much but since the Old Guard is the only unit in the game with this ability I guess It would be good to have something else with it. I do think its kind of silly though because your guys will be scared even though they could be destroying the grenadier unit. Perhaps the grenades explosions should activate a scare debuff?

In saying this though a heavy cav charge would to be more scary than an infantry charge (If the infantry isn't in square) so in comparison you would have to then give heavy cav the scare trait ability too.

My personal opinion is that I think no unit in the game should even have the scare enemies ability because losing morale is already implemented. Simply leaving a unit in reserve (but close to the action) will scare enemies which is stupid because they could be just standing there doing nothing.

Old Guard have the best stats already, scare enemies ability is simply overkill.

Just make them what they were historically. Elite shock/assault troops. Get rid of the stupid grenades. Make them the same size as regular line infantry units. Bam. You now have a useful unit with a specific purpose.

I actually use them as line inf.....I tested 6 units of Prussian Grenadiers angainst 6 units of i think Portugese line inf and just let them shoot out and the grenadiers won, although unit numbers were around 30. Then i made them volley once then charge and the end numbers were around 45 - 50 left in each squad.

These were on large squads, so they can still form square to counter cav.

Originally Posted by scougall9

I actually use them as line inf.....I tested 6 units of Prussian Grenadiers angainst 6 units of i think Portugese line inf and just let them shoot out and the grenadiers won, although unit numbers were around 30. Then i made them volley once then charge and the end numbers were around 45 - 50 left in each squad.

These were on large squads, so they can still form square to counter cav.

If this is true, than grenadiers are worth their cost. It is certain that they'd win a melee contest as well.

If doing all like you said, it would be good on MP but what about SP, since everything is better and later in game we got nearly infinite money to afford it.

then we could have Grenadiers as a back-bone of army instead of Line Inf?

I agree to all Idea except scaring enemy, It's not fun or fair to fight against with, but yet reasonable for old guard to have

Originally Posted by MeenChawitTH

If doing all like you said, it would be good on MP but what about SP, since everything is better and later in game we got nearly infinite money to afford it.

then we could have Grenadiers as a back-bone of army instead of Line Inf?

I agree to all Idea except scaring enemy, It's not fun or fair to fight against with, but yet reasonable for old guard to have

I don't know if this could be implemented, but I would like to see the recruitment of grenadiers, light infantry/skirmishers and guards depend on the number of line infantry you have. Something like you could recruit 1 grenadier and one light infantry for every 4 line infantry, and 1 guard for every 6 line. Austria doesn't have guards so they could have one grenadier for every 3 line. I would then give grenadiers the same firing stats of line infantry, but better melee.

I think that the best solution is either better stats or make them cheaper. A unit is balanced if it's effectiveness is worth its cost, so since grenadiers are weak for their cost right now, they need to be buffed or have their price reduced.

Who cares what people use in single player, you can win the game using militia with some cav support. Hell even without cav support, just takes more time. You can do whatever you like in single player.

I think Old Guards, other senior Guards (Such as Russian Lifeguard Foot and Prussian Foot Guards and other guard infantry units with the highest cost), and Grenadiers should have either (or both) the 'Inspires Nearby Units' trait and 'Frightens Enemy INFANTRY' trait. I think a tall man with a high bearskin and a musket was not intimidate enough for a cuirassier or hussar.

Pretty handy for clearing breaches filled with defensive/ offensive troops, can really deter a unit from pushing on and its always nice to see a stack of bodies

Your on high not ultra unit sizes then.

Here are my two cents:
1) Make grenades able to clear troops in trenches/building and other types of cover they occupy.
2) Make Grenadiers the only unit that can fight in two ranks due to their longer reach, that is provided by their height.

How about increase their charge stats and give then shock damage while charging. In this case they have a chance of routing the unit they charge. I think line infantry would win the melle because of pure numbers despite the lesser morale stat.

Another way to buff the grenadiers is to debuff the line infantry, especially in campaign when you are able to recruit grenadiers you already can recruit two-chevron experienced line which is nearly as good in melee and better in shooting. Remove athe chevrons added for your units which is historically accurate. The Grande Armee was at its best in 1805 before their quality declined because of rapidly-trained recruits.