Couple of things I've noticed

[Caesar Augustus]

Hi all,

I thought I'd mention a couple of oddities that I've found during a couple of Roman campaigns.

1) In one campaign, there was a Numidian army wandering around Europe. I noticed it near Gergovia (next to Massilia). Can anyone think of a reason why it would be doing that? Numidia are at war with Spain and have taken some provinces there, but I thought that the AI couldn't move through provinces that it didn't own without attacking the settlement?

2) In my most recent campaign, the entire Macedonian royal family had been assassinated by 260 BC. At least Macedon had been destroyed by then, and my diplomats in the area allowed me to see that their settlements hadn't been taken (just joined the rebels), and that Macdonian faction troops were in the garrison. So it seems to me that either all the family members had been assassinated, or all killed in a battle (pretty unlikely to me). I think it must be the Greek cities who performed the assassinations, as they've been sending alot my way too. Is there a way to reduce the number of assassins recruited by the AI?

3) There's something very weird going on with religous building in Paestum. I built every shrine apart from Mercury, and upgraded them all too temples. This is where the weirdness starts - I now have the option to build shrines there again, and the temples haven't been destroyed. Any ideas?

I can upload saves if they would be helpful to see what's going on

[JaNuZ99]

Hi all,

I thought I'd mention a couple of oddities that I've found during a couple of Roman campaigns.

1) In one campaign, there was a Numidian army wandering around Europe. I noticed it near Gergovia (next to Massilia). Can anyone think of a reason why it would be doing that? Numidia are at war with Spain and have taken some provinces there, but I thought that the AI couldn't move through provinces that it didn't own without attacking the settlement?

2) In my most recent campaign, the entire Macedonian royal family had been assassinated by 260 BC. At least Macedon had been destroyed by then, and my diplomats in the area allowed me to see that their settlements hadn't been taken (just joined the rebels), and that Macdonian faction troops were in the garrison. So it seems to me that either all the family members had been assassinated, or all killed in a battle (pretty unlikely to me). I think it must be the Greek cities who performed the assassinations, as they've been sending alot my way too. Is there a way to reduce the number of assassins recruited by the AI?

3) There's something very weird going on with religous building in Paestum. I built every shrine apart from Mercury, and upgraded them all too temples. This is where the weirdness starts - I now have the option to build shrines there again, and the temples haven't been destroyed. Any ideas?

I can upload saves if they would be helpful to see what's going on

1.That one is weird, i never known a numidian army to go that far!

2. That one I do see a bit, Macedon usually gets destroyed like that, all their family members are nowhere to be seen and their forces are now rebels, but I have noticed what you are describing to happen a bit, (sorry no saves , i've started a new campaign) and i agree it might be the greeks, they tend to have a lot of assassins, as Rome you notice this early on in Sicily.

3.Yeah noticed it awhile back, I always thought it a bit strange, but i didn't mind. Though that bring me to a new question, sometimes I built all the lvls of all my temples, once i do that i might destroy a temple built earlier by another faction in that same settlement right, suddenly i have the chance to build my shrines and temples again, so sometimes i might have a shrine of Jupiter and a large temple of Jupiter in that place! WTF!

[Caesar Augustus]

I always demolish temples the second I take a settlement. Just one of those things I've done since I played my first vanilla campaigns. It's not really a problem, I just find it weird. I can't develop further than a normal temple, despite Paestum being a minor city (so I should be able to build a large temple).

[Mogan]

Damn assassins. Too overpowered, at least for AI factions. How about increasing the recruitment and upkeep by 5x? It was really hard to get an assassin that could perform more difficult jobs than killing sheep unnoticed.

[Caesar Augustus]

That could work, at least assuming the AI uses the same logic for agent recruitment as it does for troops

[Quinn Inuit]

Increasing assassin costs is probably a good idea. The AI does tend to get out of hand with them. JaN or CA, would you mind giving that a try the next time you play?

I have no idea how that happened with the temples. It shouldn't be possible. Are you sure they were shrines of the same gods that had temples?

As for the Numidians, my guess is that they got cut off from their target by someone moving into their walking path, so the AI automatically sent them the long way around. That's unusual, but there are some tight corners in Spain, so it can happen.

[JaNuZ99]

Increasing assassin costs is probably a good idea. The AI does tend to get out of hand with them. JaN or CA, would you mind giving that a try the next time you play?

I have no idea how that happened with the temples. It shouldn't be possible. Are you sure they were shrines of the same gods that had temples?

As for the Numidians, my guess is that they got cut off from their target by someone moving into their walking path, so the AI automatically sent them the long way around. That's unusual, but there are some tight corners in Spain, so it can happen.

Sure will do

Yes, thats is exactly what happened i have both a shrine and large temple of the same god. I really don't mind (i think it still gives me the same public order bonus as if i only had the temple) but yeah it happens, and i've only noticed it in Paestrum, any ideas why?

[pannonian]

Sure will do

Yes, thats is exactly what happened i have both a shrine and large temple of the same god. I really don't mind (i think it still gives me the same public order bonus as if i only had the temple) but yeah it happens, and i've only noticed it in Paestrum, any ideas why?

If you have a main temple to god A, you won't get the chance to build a minor temple to god A. If you don't have a main temple to god A, you can build a minor temple to god A. However, there is no check when you build a main temple, only when you build a minor temple. Ergo trickery:

1. Build temple of A.
2. Build minor temple of B.
3. Destroy temple of A.
4. Build temple of B.
5. Build minor temple of A.

Result: Temple of B, minor temple of A, minor temple of B.

[Quinn Inuit]

If you have a main temple to god A, you won't get the chance to build a minor temple to god A. If you don't have a main temple to god A, you can build a minor temple to god A. However, there is no check when you build a main temple, only when you build a minor temple. Ergo trickery:

1. Build temple of A.
2. Build minor temple of B.
3. Destroy temple of A.
4. Build temple of B.
5. Build minor temple of A.

Result: Temple of B, minor temple of A, minor temple of B.

Oh, O.K. Thanks for the explanation.

Interesting hole. I may need to fix that for the next version.

[Caesar Augustus]

Will do Quinn. Where do I find the assassin costs? I'm guessing it's either the EDU or the EDB?

I have temples for all the gods apart from Mercury in Paestum, and I can construct shrines for them all again there. It did revolt back to me after Pyrrhus took it, would that have had an effect?

EDIT: Whilst I remember, Britannia got wiped out within 3 years of the campaign. No idea why, but I'm guessing they killed all their family members trying to beat those rebel garrisons.

[Quinn Inuit]

Thanks.

Was one non-Roman and one Roman? The only way I can see this working is if the same god is assigned to different trees for different civs (e.g., law for one and gov't. for another).

[Caesar Augustus]

They're definitely Roman, Epirus didn't have a chance to build any shrines there before Paestum revolted back to me.

Here's a download for my current save, it may help to see what's going on. Only got 10 downloads for it though as I'm not registered with Rapidshare.

Notice all the famous battle symbols by the way

[JaNuZ99]

Notice all the famous battle symbols by the way

LOL subtle, but i checked it out, very nice

[Carados]

I think you should experiment with it and see what happens when you destroy stuff

[Caesar Augustus]

Haha, I don't really go for subtlety with stuff like that

I could expirement with destroying stuff, but I haven't gotten around to it yet.

By the way, how do you guys organise your Consular armies when you have Italian Hastati, Principes and Triarii? Because I don't have enough slots for my ideal format, which is:

2x Equites
2x Velites
2X Hastati
2x Principes
2x Triarii
2x Italic Cavalry
2x Italian Skirmishers
2x Italic Hastati
2x Italic Principes
2x Italic Triarii
1 General

So I'm thinking I'll have to drop a division Equites for the general, but thought I'd see what everyone else does?

[JaNuZ99]

So I'm thinking I'll have to drop a division Equites for the general, but thought I'd see what everyone else does?

My consular army is as follows

4x Hastati
4x Principes
2x Velites
2x Triarii (i like to think my Triarii as strictly get out of dodge and cover my flank/retreat troops)
2x Equites
2x Italic Calvary
2x Italic Skirmishers
1x Italic Swordsman
1General

As you can see i doubled up more on my ROMAN muscle then my allies

While my standard Legion is (notice i'm not too big on skirmsihsers, after all the reall killing machine in the roman army was its infantry and i try to play like that)

2x Hastati
2x Principes
2x Italic Swordsman
1x Italic Skirmisher
2x Italic Calvary
1 tribune
Legatus

My FIELD ARMY (they are special for me, are a slightly more powerful legion,)

2x Hastati
2x Principes
2x Velites
2x Swordsman
2x Italic Calvary
2x Italic Skirmishers
1 Tribune
1 Legatus/Praetorian


My PROVINCIAL Legion

same as a regular legion but i supplement my italic troops for AOR troops of that region, in fact i only let family members born in the region to later on become generals or governors.

*i missed having archers, i only get to use em once i get to egypt and a few other places that they are adequte to that region's fighting style/warfare (House rules)

[Ramiro]

Haha, I don't really go for subtlety with stuff like that

I could expirement with destroying stuff, but I haven't gotten around to it yet.

By the way, how do you guys organise your Consular armies when you have Italian Hastati, Principes and Triarii? Because I don't have enough slots for my ideal format, which is:

2x Equites
2x Velites
2X Hastati
2x Principes
2x Triarii
2x Italic Cavalry
2x Italian Skirmishers
2x Italic Hastati
2x Italic Principes
2x Italic Triarii
1 General

So I'm thinking I'll have to drop a division Equites for the general, but thought I'd see what everyone else does?

From this formation you should drop 1 Equites and that would do. Normally the allied cavalry contingent doubled the rom,an cavalry.

[Gomer]

Another thing I've noticed is if you have conquered a settlement and you build a level 1 auxillary (or whatever it is) building and then remove the family member it destroys the building and you have to start all over again.

[Caesar Augustus]

Really? I've never noticed that. I'll try that out when I get back from holdiday.

[Quinn Inuit]

Gomer: are you using Caldarium's Culture Shock mod?