Convincing evidence of U.S. using chemical weapons in Fallujah

[Ummon]

There are no important sites with available articles about this on the Web in English, but an enquiry of Italian (leftist) satellite news service RAINEWS 24 shows there is evidence of chemical weapons (white phosphorus) use against civilians in Fallujah.

This, if confirmed, would be a serious mistake by U.S. troops, and a crime. I do not usually criticize recourse to strength in Iraq, but this is confirmed would be criminal. If anyone finds something, postive or negative, with regard to this, please add down here.

[Zuwxiv]

Do you have the links to the foreign article?

[Atheist Peace]

Hopefully it gets some American attention, or else we won't find out anything. No one in the government will care unless there are possible political reprucussions.

[Ahiga]

For those ignorant of chemical weapons, what exactly does white phosphorus use?

From: http://www.nsc.org/library/chemical/phsphor.htm

In the military, white phosphorus is used in ammunition such as mortar, artillery shells, and grenades. When ammunitions containing white phosphorus are fired in the field, they burn and produce smoke which contains both unburned phosphorus and burned phosphorus products. In military operations, this smoke screen is used to protect potential targets and to conceal movement of personnel and material.

To which myself sounds little more than depleted Uranium, or better yet even less dangerous than that may be. The use of this, though other sites list the effects to be dangerous, does not seem entirely out of the ordinary for any army force. Smoke grenades might be used in the style of Flashbangs or tear gas, which really, in reality, is itself a chemical weapon (Though it may not have the hazardous effects of WP)

That article may have mistaken the W.P. Used in Fallujah for conventional mortar, artillery shells, or grenades. Perhaps smoke grenades were used to disperse rioting civilians, or to cover the retreat of troops?

[Kino]

Deleted by user.

[danzig]

First time Ive seen this story was on Jihadunspun, an almost comic 'news site' from the Islamic extremist point of view where they claimed US soldiers fired chemical weapons during the fight for Fallejah but 'god' stepped in and blew the gas back on their own soldiers...this tied into with their story that US was dumping corpses of dead military personal into rivers to hide the evidence. There would be little military benfit for the US to use chemical weapons in a city enviroment. Btw if its so convincing why dont you provide links to it? And if its a 'leftist' website just how convincing is it? Would be like one of us coming here and saying Fox News just reported everything is fine and dandy in Iraq!

[Ummon]

The evidence in the news service was brought up by:

1) self-declared U.S. ex-soldiers
2) Iraqi inhabitants of Fallujah
3) tapes of a few embedded journalists
4) satellite images of the town

White phosphorus used to ignite houses during night and corpses of women and children burned were shown in the tape.

I have no links to any site which can be considered reliable, there are links to unreliable sites. Keep an eye on the subject.

First time Ive seen this story was on Jihadunspun, an almost comic 'news site' from the Islamic extremist point of view where they claimed US soldiers fired chemical weapons during the fight for Fallejah but 'god' stepped in and blew the gas back on their own soldiers...this tied into with their story that US was dumping corpses of dead military personal into rivers to hide the evidence. There would be little military benfit for the US to use chemical weapons in a city enviroment. Btw if its so convincing why dont you provide links to it? And if its a 'leftist' website just how convincing is it? Would be like one of us coming here and saying Fox News just reported everything is fine and dandy in Iraq!

I am asking this not just to ascertain a possible crime, but because RaiNews is a politically oriented media, but nonetheless an official statal news service, and thus, if proved wrong, this would have interesting political consequences in Italy too.

White phosphor can be used to burn living tissues as well.

[danzig]

The evidence in the news service was brought up by:

1) self-declared U.S. ex-soldiers
2) Iraqi inhabitants of Fallujah
3) tapes of a few embedded journalists
4) satellite images of the town

White phosphorus used to ignite houses during night and corpses of women and children burned were shown in the tape.

I have no links to any site which can be considered reliable, there are links to unreliable sites. Keep an eye on the subject.

Here Ill do your homework for you http://news.independent.co.uk/world/...icle325560.ece

Also from emedicine:

"Background: White phosphorus has been used commonly by the military as an incendiary agent or as an igniter for munitions. It commonly is found in hand grenades, mortar and artillery rounds, and smoke bombs.

Munitions-quality white phosphorus commonly is found in solid form. When exposed to air, it spontaneously ignites and is oxidized rapidly to phosphorus pentoxide. Such heat is produced by this reaction that the element bursts into a yellow flame and produces a dense white smoke. Phosphorus also becomes luminous in the dark, and this property is conveyed to "tracer bullets." This chemical reaction continues until either all the material is consumed or the element is deprived of oxygen.

Most injuries associated with white phosphorus are the result of accidents due to either human or mechanical error."

Sounds like the media outlet doesnt understand what is a 'chemical weapon'.

I am asking this not just to ascertain a possible crime, but because RaiNews is a politically oriented media, but nonetheless an official statal news service, and thus, if proved wrong, this would have interesting political consequences in Italy too.

How so? Various non american (hell some american too) news outlets have pretty much accused the US of every crime under the sun so I dont see how this would be any different if it is undoubtly not true.

[Lord Rahl]

Google is great,

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/...icle325560.ece

While there is no physical proof that the phosphorus was used, if we did use them like that then I think it was either an accident (I hardly think so) or misuse of the shells (more likely). This shouldn't happen again.

As for the Mark 77 bomb, supposedly they were all dropped in Desert Storm to put out the fire trenches used to be a small defense against the Coalition. In 1973, napalm munitions have been taken and stored in safe places so they won't be used again. So, I highly doubt these bombs were used for targets in urban areas. It wouldn't make sense really. If they have been used then that also needs to be stopped.

I absolutely LOVE the way they end this,

Meanwhile, five US soldiers from the elite 75th Ranger Regiment have been charged with kicking and punching detainees in Iraq.

The news came as a suicide car bomber killed four American soldiers at a checkpoint south of Baghdad yesterday.

[danzig]

Google is great,

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/...icle325560.ece

While there is no physical proof that the phosphorus was used, if we did use them like that then I think it was either an accident (I hardly think so) or misuse of the shells (more likely). This shouldn't happen again.

As for the Mark 77 bomb, supposedly they were all dropped in Desert Storm to put out the fire trenches used to be a small defense against the Coalition. In 1973, napalm munitions have been taken and stored in safe places so they won't be used again. So, I highly doubt these bombs were used for targets in urban areas. It wouldn't make sense really. If they have been used then that also needs to be stopped.

I absolutely LOVE the way they end this,

Yeah no bias reporting in that article...what exactly did the ending have to do with the content of the rest of the article? They may as well have tossed in a sports score at the end Should be noted too there were some reports of insurgents who fled the city booby trapping houses with basically strapping explosives to anything including one story I read where they attached explosives to large cannisters of flammable liquid which gave US soldiers a headache in going thru the city.

http://www.rainews24.it/Notizia.asp?NewsID=57784
Link to what I assume is the original article, if that pic is suppose to be the 'raining down' attack they are claiming looks more like standard illumination to me but hey Im not an expert so.

[Ummon]

So it is not only the right which has piggybanks. :wink:

[Caelius]

Why is this such a big deal? Whoever is making these alledged reports (most likely originating from the insurgents know how rediculous they can be at times) don't know what the hell they're talking about. White Phosphorus is used by all modern militaries, it can't melt people and it certainly can't act as a lethal chemical agent, it's used in flares for crying out loud. People really need to do some cross-referencing before posting stuff like this.

[eurolord]

Hi,

This is a load of crap.

I can't understand why people even post rubbish like this - all youre doing is spreading more propaganda. I'm sure some idiot will believe it because they want to.

Eurolord

[Ummon]

Hi,

This is a load of crap.

I can't understand why people even post rubbish like this - all youre doing is spreading more propaganda. I'm sure some idiot will believe it because they want to.

Eurolord

I post it because it allows me to debunk the propaganda. :wink:

[Attalus]

Willy Pete (WP) is not normally used on people these days...it's an incendiary and is frowned upon by several organisations
such as the ICRC and a couple of organisations in Hague and Geneva (not to mention the usual chain of command).

It's normally used to control the adjustment of indirect fire (mortars and artillery).

It's generally thought of as better to tear people to tiny shreds with shrapnel from tons of molten steel fired by the big guns than to set them burning.

Go figure.

[eurolord]

Hi again,

I suppose if Coalition troops were found to be carrying the dreaded Cylume Light stick (or snap sticks as the US calls them) that would also be classed as the US using chemical weapons?

Just for info, Cylumes are 7" plastic sticks containing a mix of chemicals. When the stick is snapped, the chemicals mix causing them to give off bright light. I'm sure some iditiot could produce a similar article to the one above.

I can imagine the news headlines, "US troops photographed carrying chemical weapons (cylumes) in Iraqi towns". What would happen if they actualy attacked an Iraqi with a Cylume.

And what about pepper spray - my god, what would we see in the media if the nasty coalition troops started using that on terrorists armed with AK47 and RPGs.

Eurolord

[Marshal Qin]

somone mentioned white phosphorus as an agent for destoying bodies. I think perhaps you have WP and quicklime mixed up. WP is everywhere on the battlefield, especially where tanks have been involved. WP is what makes big clouds of white smoke and you can be sure there was a lot of smoke used when crossing streets (fire lanes) and open areas (beaten/kill zones).

edit: that pic (out of focus) in the Italian news is just illumination provided by either motars or, more than likely, dropped by one of those herc gunships.

[Major.Stupidity]

I remember find on the net reports of the US using napalm in Fallujah...perhaps this is it?

[Big War Bird]

The USA is not a party to the treaty prohibiting the use of WP.

[Empedocles]

Well, in my country most important newspaper (that doesn't have a political or religious point of view) the following news appear today:
http://www.clarin.com/diario/2005/11...m-01085993.htm
Here is a description of the article:
The RAI (the CNN of Italy) has published a documental showing evidence of US using white phosphorus against buildings and fortifications in Fallujah. They even have aninterview of a us soldier and the reports of witnesses and medics that trated the injuries caused by the phosphorus.
It explains that the phosphorus burns your flesh to the bone and do minimal damage to clothes and non-organic material.

That's most of it, I guess we will see some news in following days and latter the US great democracy and military system will find the responsable and punish him. (What actually mean that they will find some 2nd litenaunt from a small town in Missisipi, declare him guilty and free him in a two or three months. Just like Abu-Gabr prision or the tape of the us soldier killing an unarmed man in a mosque. Do you remember that?)

Diego, from Argentina