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  1. #1
    wilpuri's Avatar It Gets Worse.
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    Default Wake up, Europe, you've a war on your hands

    Something I found while browsing the web. Although he uses pretty strong rhetoric, I can't help but to worry. This is not as far-fetched as it might seem to some of you.

    Wake up, Europe, you've a war on your hands

    November 6, 2005

    BY MARK STEYN SUN-TIMES COLUMNIST



    Ever since 9/11, I've been gloomily predicting the European powder keg's about to go up. ''By 2010 we'll be watching burning buildings, street riots and assassinations on the news every night,'' I wrote in Canada's Western Standard back in February.



    Silly me. The Eurabian civil war appears to have started some years ahead of my optimistic schedule. As Thursday's edition of the Guardian reported in London: ''French youths fired at police and burned over 300 cars last night as towns around Paris experienced their worst night of violence in a week of urban unrest.''

    ''French youths,'' huh? You mean Pierre and Jacques and Marcel and Alphonse? Granted that most of the "youths" are technically citizens of the French Republic, it doesn't take much time in les banlieus of Paris to discover that the rioters do not think of their primary identity as ''French'': They're young men from North Africa growing ever more estranged from the broader community with each passing year and wedded ever more intensely to an assertive Muslim identity more implacable than anything you're likely to find in the Middle East. After four somnolent years, it turns out finally that there really is an explosive ''Arab street,'' but it's in Clichy-sous-Bois.

    The notion that Texas neocon arrogance was responsible for frosting up trans-Atlantic relations was always preposterous, even for someone as complacent and blinkered as John Kerry. If you had millions of seething unassimilated Muslim youths in lawless suburbs ringing every major city, would you be so eager to send your troops into an Arab country fighting alongside the Americans? For half a decade, French Arabs have been carrying on a low-level intifada against synagogues, kosher butchers, Jewish schools, etc. The concern of the political class has been to prevent the spread of these attacks to targets of more, ah, general interest. They seem to have lost that battle. Unlike America's Europhiles, France's Arab street correctly identified Chirac's opposition to the Iraq war for what it was: a sign of weakness.

    The French have been here before, of course. Seven-thirty-two. Not 7:32 Paris time, which is when the nightly Citroen-torching begins, but 732 A.D. -- as in one and a third millennia ago. By then, the Muslims had advanced a thousand miles north of Gibraltar to control Spain and southern France up to the banks of the Loire. In October 732, the Moorish general Abd al-Rahman and his Muslim army were not exactly at the gates of Paris, but they were within 200 miles, just south of the great Frankish shrine of St. Martin of Tours. Somewhere on the road between Poitiers and Tours, they met a Frankish force and, unlike other Christian armies in Europe, this one held its ground ''like a wall . . . a firm glacial mass,'' as the Chronicle of Isidore puts it. A week later, Abd al-Rahman was dead, the Muslims were heading south, and the French general, Charles, had earned himself the surname ''Martel'' -- or ''the Hammer.''

    Poitiers was the high-water point of the Muslim tide in western Europe. It was an opportunistic raid by the Moors, but if they'd won, they'd have found it hard to resist pushing on to Paris, to the Rhine and beyond. ''Perhaps,'' wrote Edward Gibbon in The Decline And Fall Of The Roman Empire, ''the interpretation of the Koran would now be taught in the schools of Oxford, and her pulpits might demonstrate to a circumcised people the sanctity and truth of the revelation of Mahomet.'' There would be no Christian Europe. The Anglo-Celts who settled North America would have been Muslim. Poitiers, said Gibbon, was ''an encounter which would change the history of the whole world.''

    Battles are very straightforward: Side A wins, Side B loses. But the French government is way beyond anything so clarifying. Today, a fearless Muslim advance has penetrated far deeper into Europe than Abd al-Rahman. They're in Brussels, where Belgian police officers are advised not to be seen drinking coffee in public during Ramadan, and in Malmo, where Swedish ambulance drivers will not go without police escort. It's way too late to rerun the Battle of Poitiers. In the no-go suburbs, even before these current riots, 9,000 police cars had been stoned by ''French youths'' since the beginning of the year; some three dozen cars are set alight even on a quiet night. ''There's a civil war under way in Clichy-sous-Bois at the moment,'' said Michel Thooris of the gendarmes' trade union Action Police CFTC. ''We can no longer withstand this situation on our own. My colleagues neither have the equipment nor the practical or theoretical training for street fighting.''

    What to do? In Paris, while ''youths'' fired on the gendarmerie, burned down a gym and disrupted commuter trains, the French Cabinet split in two, as the ''minister for social cohesion'' (a Cabinet position I hope America never requires) and other colleagues distance themselves from the interior minister, the tough-talking Nicolas Sarkozy who dismissed the rioters as ''scum.'' President Chirac seems to have come down on the side of those who feel the scum's grievances need to be addressed. He called for ''a spirit of dialogue and respect.'' As is the way with the political class, they seem to see the riots as an excellent opportunity to scuttle Sarkozy's presidential ambitions rather than as a call to save the Republic.

    A few years back I was criticized for a throwaway observation to the effect that ''I find it easier to be optimistic about the futures of Iraq and Pakistan than, say, Holland or Denmark." But this is why. In defiance of traditional immigration patterns, these young men are less assimilated than their grandparents. French cynics like the prime minister, Dominique de Villepin, have spent the last two years scoffing at the Bush Doctrine: Why, everyone knows Islam and democracy are incompatible. If so, that's less a problem for Iraq or Afghanistan than for France and Belgium.

    If Chirac isn't exactly Charles Martel, the rioters aren't doing a bad impression of the Muslim armies of 13 centuries ago: They're seizing their opportunities, testing their foe, probing his weak spots. If burning the 'burbs gets you more ''respect'' from Chirac, they'll burn 'em again, and again. In the current issue of City Journal, Theodore Dalrymple concludes a piece on British suicide bombers with this grim summation of the new Europe: ''The sweet dream of universal cultural compatibility has been replaced by the nightmare of permanent conflict.'' Which sounds an awful lot like a new Dark Ages.
    The common culture of a tribe is a sign of its inner cohesion. But tribes are vanishing from the modern world, as are all forms of traditional society. Customs, practices, festivals, rituals and beliefs have acquired a flut and half-hearted quality which reflects our nomadic and rootless existence, predicated as we are on the global air-waves.

    ROGER SCRUTON, Modern Culture

  2. #2
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    This idiot not only makes conservatives look stupid but also human beings.

    Ever since 9/11, I've been gloomily predicting the European powder keg's about to go up. ''By 2010 we'll be watching burning buildings, street riots and assassinations on the news every night,'' I wrote in Canada's Western Standard back in February.
    Wow mate, this guy must be Nostradamus #358268326265470101010110

    Silly me. The Eurabian civil war appears to have started some years ahead of my optimistic schedule. As Thursday's edition of the Guardian reported in London: ''French youths fired at police and burned over 300 cars last night as towns around Paris experienced their worst night of violence in a week of urban unrest.''
    Eurabian civil war? if that is what Mark Steyn calls a civil war, then I wonder what he would call a real civil war...mabye "Mars Attacks"

    The notion that Texas neocon arrogance was responsible for frosting up trans-Atlantic relations was always preposterous, even for someone as complacent and blinkered as John Kerry.
    Way to go Mr Ignoratio elenchi.

    If you had millions of seething unassimilated Muslim youths in lawless suburbs ringing every major city, would you be so eager to send your troops into an Arab country fighting alongside the Americans?
    A mild exaggeration (you can now laugh at the fact I used the word mild, go ahead) if I've ever seen one, good god and this guy writes for an actual newspaper...

    For half a decade, French Arabs have been carrying on a low-level intifada against synagogues, kosher butchers, Jewish schools, etc.
    That mabye true, but it is not as sinister as Mr Steyn makes it out to be. And he ignores the fact that idiots exist in every society and every religion. Of course if he acknowedged that, then he wouldn't make any money by playing on peoples assumptions and fears.

    The concern of the political class has been to prevent the spread of these attacks to targets of more, ah, general interest. They seem to have lost that battle. Unlike America's Europhiles, France's Arab street correctly identified Chirac's opposition to the Iraq war for what it was: a sign of weakness.
    Wow great move, lets join all conservative points (even if they don't relate to the point being made) into one giant ball of hatred! Very subtle, very confusing for the reader, you win first prize for being an idiot.

    The French have been here before, of course. Seven-thirty-two. Not 7:32 Paris time, which is when the nightly Citroen-torching begins, but 732 A.D
    Har har Mr smarty man made a joke that is not filled with hate!

    By then, the Muslims had advanced a thousand miles north of Gibraltar to control Spain and southern France up to the banks of the Loire. In October 732, the Moorish general Abd al-Rahman and his Muslim army were not exactly at the gates of Paris, but they were within 200 miles, just south of the great Frankish shrine of St. Martin of Tours. Somewhere on the road between Poitiers and Tours, they met a Frankish force and, unlike other Christian armies in Europe, this one held its ground ''like a wall . . . a firm glacial mass,'' as the Chronicle of Isidore puts it. A week later, Abd al-Rahman was dead, the Muslims were heading south, and the French general, Charles, had earned himself the surname ''Martel'' -- or ''the Hammer.'
    Ahh yes the old bring up religious and nationalistic pride (and hatred) trick, forget about the fact that muslims are people, a fact that has been established after years of living side by side with muslims without any problems at all, no forget that, let's go back to the old ways of my religion and my country owns yours so I'am going to kill you.
    Ahh yes you were trying to say that muslims of today are the same as muslims of the past...umm how did you get a job as a journalist again? it seems so easy mabye I'll apply too.

    Poitiers was the high-water point of the Muslim tide in western Europe. It was an opportunistic raid by the Moors, but if they'd won, they'd have found it hard to resist pushing on to Paris, to the Rhine and beyond. ''Perhaps,'' wrote Edward Gibbon in The Decline And Fall Of The Roman Empire, ''the interpretation of the Koran would now be taught in the schools of Oxford, and her pulpits might demonstrate to a circumcised people the sanctity and truth of the revelation of Mahomet.'' There would be no Christian Europe. The Anglo-Celts who settled North America would have been Muslim. Poitiers, said Gibbon, was ''an encounter which would change the history of the whole world.''

    Battles are very straightforward: Side A wins, Side B loses. But the French government is way beyond anything so clarifying. Today, a fearless Muslim advance has penetrated far deeper into Europe than Abd al-Rahman. They're in Brussels, where Belgian police officers are advised not to be seen drinking coffee in public during Ramadan, and in Malmo, where Swedish ambulance drivers will not go without police escort. It's way too late to rerun the Battle of Poitiers. In the no-go suburbs, even before these current riots, 9,000 police cars had been stoned by ''French youths'' since the beginning of the year; some three dozen cars are set alight even on a quiet night. ''There's a civil war under way in Clichy-sous-Bois at the moment,'' said Michel Thooris of the gendarmes' trade union Action Police CFTC. ''We can no longer withstand this situation on our own. My colleagues neither have the equipment nor the practical or theoretical training for street fighting.''
    I wasn't expecting this, now Steyn is equating the muslims of over a milenia ago with the mulims of today. What a surprise! Yes they must have had planned this for over a milenia since their advance into europe failed, ah yes generation after generation they waited, alot of planning and patience and now they begin thier attack by stopping police drinking coffeee..OH NOES WERE ALL DOOMED, HELL HATH NO FURY LIKE A MUSLIM DURING RAMADAN NOO!

    What to do? In Paris, while ''youths'' fired on the gendarmerie, burned down a gym and disrupted commuter trains, the French Cabinet split in two, as the ''minister for social cohesion'' (a Cabinet position I hope America never requires) and other colleagues distance themselves from the interior minister, the tough-talking Nicolas Sarkozy who dismissed the rioters as ''scum.'' President Chirac seems to have come down on the side of those who feel the scum's grievances need to be addressed. He called for ''a spirit of dialogue and respect.'' As is the way with the political class, they seem to see the riots as an excellent opportunity to scuttle Sarkozy's presidential ambitions rather than as a call to save the Republic.
    So what's Chirac supposed to do? send them away to extermination camps? Wow Mrs Steyn you do have a way of making a very normal political reaction look like the end of the world, you do have a talent for these kinda things don't ya?

    A few years back I was criticized for a throwaway observation to the effect that ''I find it easier to be optimistic about the futures of Iraq and Pakistan than, say, Holland or Denmark."
    Oh my why would anyone ever critisize you Mr Idiot, uh I mean Mr Steyn, you are a smarty man.

    . In defiance of traditional immigration patterns, these young men are less assimilated than their grandparents. French cynics like the prime minister, Dominique de Villepin, have spent the last two years scoffing at the Bush Doctrine: Why, everyone knows Islam and democracy are incompatible. If so, that's less a problem for Iraq or Afghanistan than for France and Belgium.
    Mr Steyn seems to have no idea what traditional immigration patterns are, How can it be? mR steyn your smarty man #1! Oh yes the muslims living in Australia and America know democracy and Islam don;t go hand in hand that is why they have started calling themselves martians instead of muslims.

    If Chirac isn't exactly Charles Martel, the rioters aren't doing a bad impression of the Muslim armies of 13 centuries ago: They're seizing their opportunities, testing their foe, probing his weak spots
    Wow they must be smarty kids!

    If burning the 'burbs gets you more ''respect'' from Chirac, they'll burn 'em again, and again. In the current issue of City Journal, Theodore Dalrymple concludes a piece on British suicide bombers with this grim summation of the new Europe: ''The sweet dream of universal cultural compatibility has been replaced by the nightmare of permanent conflict.'' Which sounds an awful lot like a new Dark Ages.
    There he goes again Mr Smarty man Steyn with his prophecies. He shoud call him self the All seeing Steyn...And again we see Steyn's huge hat of exaggeration being pulled out for antoher go, there sure must be alot of crap in there Mr Steyn you should go wash it out.

    If your wondering why I took such an article by a Smarty Man such as Mr Steyn so seriously people like this don't deserve to be treated lightly. :wink:
    Last edited by Guderian; November 07, 2005 at 03:45 AM.
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    Removed troll statement -TBN
    Last edited by Søren; November 13, 2005 at 08:28 AM.

  4. #4
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    This kind of "article" makes me very very sick.

    yes.
    it is very easy to blame societies problems on one group.
    it is very easy to make a scapegoat, and claim it is all there fault.

    the article itself is masterful. i could imagine it nicely placed on the front page on the BNP's web site.

    i love how so many here are assuming that the rioters in France, are "unassimilated Muslims"
    in fact, this seems the be the main argument.

    Social and economic integration of immigrants is not a one way street in which everything must flow to the immigrant. If anything it is nearly the opposite. It is up to the immigrant to leave, nearly entirely, his previous identity and take up the traditions and customs of his new nation.
    would it intrest you to know, that most of the youths rioting speak perfect french?
    why should they have to give up there religion?
    most of these people in bold, because im sick of them being refferd to as "immigrants" or "Muslims", most of these people
    were born in France, grew up in France, why should they have to give up there religion?

    but getting a job, and being a Muslim born in one of the poor regions, is very hard.
    why?
    for the simple reason's of who they are, and where they were born.
    that is discrimination.
    sure we can blame soicteys problems on one group, make a scapegoat.
    its a winning formula, Hilter used it to great effect, as have many leaders of the past.
    i don't doubt the BNP will eventually gain some real power, thanks to this same winning formula.

    its disgusting.


    the article itself, is a vile piece of opportunistic trash, designed to play on peoples fears.
    and the worrying thing is, people will believe it history has shown that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigfootedfred
    would it intrest you to know, that most of the youths rioting speak perfect french?
    why should they have to give up there religion?
    most of these people in bold, because im sick of them being refferd to as "immigrants" or "Muslims", most of these people
    were born in France, grew up in France, why should they have to give up there religion?

    but getting a job, and being a Muslim born in one of the poor regions, is very hard.
    why?
    for the simple reason's of who they are, and where they were born.
    that is discrimination.
    I think you misunderstand me BFF. I was not blaming the immigrants for being unemployeed or dissaffected per se. I was only pointing out that structure of the immigration as it happened and is still happening is counterproductive for everyone.

    I was interupted in my previous post so I will finish it here.

    The host nation needs an opportunity to adjust to new immigrants. A trickle of immigrants is always preferable to a flood. It's hardly a big deal to anyone to see a few foreign faces on a city side walk. And it is not distressing to work along side a single foreigner when everyone else is still a native. That single foreigner isn't a threat, real or preceived.

    However, when whole neighborhoods completely change character in the short span of several years, there is a negative reaction. Natives can withdrawl from dealing with immigrants. The natives can feel threatened by the 'others' in their own country.
    As a teenager, I was taken to various houses and flats above takeaways in the north of England, to be beaten, tortured and raped over 100 times. I was called a “white slag” and “white ****” as they beat me.

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    MaximiIian's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    So, what, is that guy trying to say that France is going to go on the warpath anytime soon?
    :laughing: Cracks me up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hapsburg
    So, what, is that guy trying to say that France is going to go on the warpath anytime soon?
    :laughing: Cracks me up.
    Yeah, but...who will they be surrendering to?

    What I have to say,

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    Meh, riots happen all the time in Europe from my understanding, although this seems bigger than your average one. I dunno, Europeans as a whole just seem like weak people to me (no offense, but it seems Europe -France especially- is too inviting and lenient to foreigners ad don't really do much to assimilate them). I mean when Brittain bans the piggy bank symbol because it offends 2.7% of the population it really makes you think. Really hard to believe these countries were once on the brink of world domination, a fact that I sense they take more shame than pride in, lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by -=WingZero=-
    Meh, riots happen all the time in Europe from my understanding, although this seems bigger than your average one. I dunno, Europeans as a whole just seem like weak people to me (no offense, but it seems Europe -France especially- is too inviting and lenient to foreigners ad don't really do much to assimilate them). I mean when Brittain bans the piggy bank symbol because it offends 2.7% of the population it really makes you think. Really hard to believe these countries were once on the brink of world domination, a fact that I sense they take more shame than pride in, lol
    Europeans are not a weak people, in my eyes it is the weak democratic system we were forced to live under by the Americans that weakens us. With all that democratic bs about "you can't do this, you can't do that" we just can't send those people back right away. There are always politicians that will prevent us from sending everyone back to where he or she came from. I think we just need a new right government here in Holland that just acts instead of debating. I wouldn't mind a Hitler kind of guy, not a mass murderer but someone that knows how to solve problems.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orretje
    Europeans are not a weak people, in my eyes it is the weak democratic system we were forced to live under by the Americans that weakens us. With all that democratic bs about "you can't do this, you can't do that" we just can't send those people back right away. There are always politicians that will prevent us from sending everyone back to where he or she came from. I think we just need a new right government here in Holland that just acts instead of debating. I wouldn't mind a Hitler kind of guy, not a mass murderer but someone that knows how to solve problems.
    What's concerning is there are other Europeans that think like you. Thankfully for the time being, they are in the extreme minority. I imagine you could find a Hitler type to solve problems, the desire for world domination and genocide would just be nasty little side effects.

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    Removed quote to removed troll-TBN
    Thank you for supporting my point, if you havent guessed the whole thread (well 50% i'd say there is some common sense in thier somewhere) is a parody of Mr Steyns article...
    Last edited by Søren; November 13, 2005 at 08:30 AM.
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    Hi,

    Crap you say, ummm. Although you probably don't like what has been written, it is certainly becoming a reality.

    In the fullness of time, I'm sure that even you lot will see what is occuring in Europe.

    It's sad that so-called educated people, or should I say people who think they are educated, really cannot see what is going on here. It's time you all pulled your heads out of your arses.

    Some of you guys need a serious wake-up call.

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    Crap you say, ummm. Although you probably don't like what has been written, it is certainly becoming a reality.

    In the fullness of time, I'm sure that even you lot will see what is occuring in Europe.
    Ill go tell the muslims who live in my flats that let's see if they riot and chop of my head, or the muslim guy who gave me directions a few weeks ago when I was lost in Auburn (muslim dominated immigrant suburb in Australia) he even took me to his mechanic shop (I asked him at the local lebanese shop), pulled out a street directory and showed me the way. Oh and he offered my a coffee too, I guess I can count him off as an insurgent.

    It's sad that so-called educated people, or should I say people who think they are educated, really cannot see what is going on here. It's time you all pulled your heads out of your arses.

    Some of you guys need a serious wake-up call.
    Mabye you need to climb out of the box called fear and see reality.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guderian
    Ill go tell the muslims who live in my flats that let's see if they riot and chop of my head, or the muslim guy who gave me directions a few weeks ago when I was lost in Auburn (muslim dominated immigrant suburb in Australia) he even took me to his mechanic shop (I asked him at the local lebanese shop), pulled out a street directory and showed me the way. Oh and he offered my a coffee too, I guess I can count him off as an insurgent.
    Hey, that's great!

    Auburn is a helluva drive from the burning streets of Paris though. I am also going to go out on a limb and assume that the Muslims of whom you speak are not living as squatters in filthy, rundown, ramshackle apartment blocks, amid high unemployment and no social net.

    Quote Originally Posted by Guderian
    Mabye you need to climb out of the box called fear and see reality.
    Reality? Reality - at least for suburbanites from Paris to Marseille - is nightly riots involving mobs that are made up of a majority of angry Muslims. Burnt cars, burnt buildings, firefights with police - that's 10+ days of reality.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OTZ
    Ill go tell the muslims who live in my flats that let's see if they riot and chop of my head, or the muslim guy who gave me directions a few weeks ago when I was lost in Auburn (muslim dominated immigrant suburb in Australia) he even took me to his mechanic shop (I asked him at the local lebanese shop), pulled out a street directory and showed me the way. Oh and he offered my a coffee too, I guess I can count him off as an insurgent.

    Hey, that's great!

    Auburn is a helluva drive from the burning streets of Paris though. I am also going to go out on a limb and assume that the Muslims of whom you speak are not living as squatters in filthy, rundown, ramshackle apartment blocks, amid high unemployment and no social net.
    Quite right. My cousin lives there and its a typical Sydney inner suburb - businesses, cafes, restaurants, houses; though with a large Muslim population and a bigger mosque than most. No riots there.

    Redfern, on the other hand, is not a typical Sydney suburb (I lived there for two years). Parts of it have an almost exclusively urban Aborigine population and burnt out houses, burnt out car wrecks, massive drug problems, high youth unemployment and a constant simmering tension between youth and police. It's a virtual no-go zone for police and riots happen there every couple of years. As Guederian mentioned, the worst rioting in Redfern happened there last summer in circumstances very similar to what is happening on a larger scale in France. An Aboriginal youth who thought he was being pursued by police fell off his bike and died. This caused a flashpoint in tension between the locals and the cops and riots began.

    So you've hit the nail on the head perfectly - it's not 'Islam' that's behind these riots - it's poverty.

    The original article's pretence that this is Phase One of some Islamic uprising is total nonsense.

    Reality? Reality - at least for suburbanites from Paris to Marseille - is nightly riots involving mobs that are made up of a majority of angry Muslims. Burnt cars, burnt buildings, firefights with police - that's 10+ days of reality.
    As has been pointed out, there are many parts of France with high Muslim populations which are entirely calm. There are other suburbs with high unemployed populations - Muslim and African - which are rioting. The idea that this has been triggered by 'weakness' over Iraq is babbling fantasy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guderian
    Ill go tell the muslims who live in my flats that let's see if they riot and chop of my head, or the muslim guy who gave me directions a few weeks ago when I was lost in Auburn (muslim dominated immigrant suburb in Australia) he even took me to his mechanic shop (I asked him at the local lebanese shop), pulled out a street directory and showed me the way. Oh and he offered my a coffee too, I guess I can count him off as an insurgent.
    You do realize it doesnt take 100% of a population to cause problems or to start a war right? The original article is overstating things no doubt but so is your dismissal.

    A bunch of cars get burned in france and that means that some yank thinks he knows better than the entire population of europe.....
    And that we (europe) are all going to be cut up and raped etc... becuase we wont go out and hang muslims etc...
    Sucks when that happens eh? Well now you know how we 'yanks' have felt since Bush took office constantly be lectured by Europe on 'how things are'.
    Last edited by danzig; November 07, 2005 at 11:34 AM.

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    Guderian, that was such a childish "refutation" of the article, I'm surprised someone saw it fit to make you a civitate. How about instead reverting to pure defensive name calling mode, you actually post something relevant and thought out?

    There is trouble brewing in Europe. To what scale has yet to be seen. However, these recent events in France certainly appear to be a harbringer of strife on a wide scale. Perhaps it is only a flash in the pan, but that is being terribly optimistic. Something has to be done to address the immigrant problem. No one has mentioned putting them in camps, that is only you assuming the worst. I would suggest European countries become more strict with their immigration policy, and stop renewing visas for some of those already in country. Deport the trouble makers, and perhaps it will eventually sort itself out.

    But hey, maybe not. Ignore it like you would a cancerous growth, just don't come crying when your crime rate is spiraling out of control and you are afraid to leave the house.

    In patronicum sub Tacticalwithdrawal
    United States Marine as of 3/31/2006

  18. #18
    Civitate
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    It's a parody, people like this shouldn't be taken seriously, that is the point I was making.

    By listening to this guy you give in to fear, because none of what he says is even reasonable let alone fact. To refute him (and thus engage in a logical argument) would mean I take his argument seriously and as mentioned above that's the last thing I do. The last thing I want happening is for people like him to actually make muslims do what he is saying by alienating them. Just like Iraq had nothing to do with terrorism that is until the American government made BS claims that it did, and ended up making it into a terrorist safe haven by invading.
    "In bourgeois society capital is independent and has individuality, while the living person is dependent and has no individuality." - Karl Marx on Capitalism
    Under the patronage of the venerable Marshal Qin. Proud member of the house of Sybian.

    Proud member of the Australian-New Zealand Beer Appreciation Society (ANZBAS)

  19. #19

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    The riots in France have in fact very little to do with religion (not inspired by islam or 'terrorists'). The real problem is that the unemployment rate in these suborbs is often as high as 50%. According to my sources, and since I live in the Netherlands I've been watching the news and debate closely these young men are actually wel integrated and consider themselves french. However most of the 'scum' that ahs been riotting past days are young men frustrated by a tradition of unemployment and being frowned upon as third class French(!) citizens. This problem requieres a structural approach, either we try (with their help) to improve their social standard or we will have a ticking (or exploding) timebomb in our suburbs.
    ow, and as mentioned above, reopening Auswitch just seems a bit draconic and well, immoral to me.

  20. #20
    wilpuri's Avatar It Gets Worse.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guderian
    It's a parody, people like this shouldn't be taken seriously, that is the point I was making.

    By listening to this guy you give in to fear, because none of what he says is even reasonable let alone fact. To refute him (and thus engage in a logical argument) would mean I take his argument seriously and as mentioned above that's the last thing I do. The last thing I want happening is for people like him to actually make muslims do what he is saying by alienating them. Just like Iraq had nothing to do with terrorism that is until the American government made BS claims that it did, and ended up making it into a terrorist safe haven by invading.
    Your 'parody' came off as a childish rant. If none of what he says is reasonable or fact, try to refute it. If you simply dismiss it out of hand, I don't think you should be posting in this thread, because you have nothing worthy to say.
    The common culture of a tribe is a sign of its inner cohesion. But tribes are vanishing from the modern world, as are all forms of traditional society. Customs, practices, festivals, rituals and beliefs have acquired a flut and half-hearted quality which reflects our nomadic and rootless existence, predicated as we are on the global air-waves.

    ROGER SCRUTON, Modern Culture

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