Papal Problems with my Empire

[Timur_the_Lame]

So here is my dilemma. I am Portugal and throughout the entire game I was allied to Papal States. I gave then Tripoli and Naples to secure my borders and have really grown around them. They were my best ally. But a few turns ago they said dont attack Scotland and I accidently did (by standing on port ) so they excommunicated me and unallied me. At the time Me, them, and England had a triple alliance (england had cean and rennes). but then England attacked me after and so I cannot ally papal states again due to the alliance they have with england. I am scarred the Papal States will attack me and ruin my efforts to invade germany. Here is my empire:



Also, I am at war with Scotland, England, and the HRE. My only ally is the Mongols now. Who are being crusaded in Antioch. Does my alliance with them make it so I cant be allies with the Pope because of the crusade?

WHAT SHOULD I DO? lol

[sherlock]

Easy!
To go out from excommunication with diplomacy would be hard. Better for you empire (and for order, as excomm lowers it) to put now maximum priority to utterly destroy Papal States. Take all territories being careful to avoid killing the Pope. With last battle kill the Pope and have a portuguese bishop elected. You'll be in peace, reconciled and with maximum relations again. If you don't win papal election, kill the winner (should appear as wandering general near Rome) and try again (or kill again)

[Stolet]

Well, if only England was the only problem hehe. You could wipe them out fast since they have 2 regions, then you could ally with the Pope again. But then Mongols would be the problem :\ Maybe you could cancel the alliance with the Mongols and then ally yourself with the Pope again, if you want an alliance with him. But I don't think he'd accept your alliance offer since you're excommunicated and your relations are probably at "Abysmal". It seems you have a great position and could easily invade the Papal States from France, Spain and North Africa, so if I were you, I would probably do that, go for Rome, Palermo, Tripoli, Genoa, Marseille and the castles in the Alps. Then make a ceasefire and demand to be reconcieled

[Timur_the_Lame]

i already got myself reconciled. thats not the problem. its making sure he doesnt attack. i dont wanna go to war with papal

[sherlock]

i already got myself reconciled. thats not the problem. its making sure he doesnt attack. i dont wanna go to war with papal

Why not?
Disintegrating the funny-hat/white-robe guy's armies is one of the most satisfying things in M2TW!

[Timur_the_Lame]

Why not?
Disintegrating the funny-hat/white-robe guy's armies is one of the most satisfying things in M2TW!

yeah but i have done it so many times before. i want to build around him and have the papal states be like my little brother faction lol. cause every other faction hates me besides the mongols.

[Nazgûl Killer]

Yeah, I'm sorry, but, Sherlock, your advice is horrendous. Fighting a war he can't win (It's impossible to destroy the Papacy) is just dumb.

What I would suggest you do is give him gifts, obtain a ceasefire with the English and redo the alliance with the Papacy. Then wait until England attacks you, so this time you're in the right and they're in the wrong, or just ally them again.

Also, for future reference: You are allowed to attack armies if they enter your province, it's self defense, but when the Pope asks you not to go on the offensive, simply don't. Retreat to your own borders and defend your land while replenishing troops. This will give you enough time to return, bigger and stronger and will also grant you a lot of Papal favor while decreasing theirs.

[Wavemanmav]

I have to agree with Nazgul. The Pope is a great ally and a deadly enemy. Pump up your rep with the Pope as much as you can. It is a poor stategy for anyone, and particularly a catholic nation, to be at odds with the Papacy.

[Timur_the_Lame]

yeah i gotcha. I am gifting them alot right now. I also cancelled my alliance with the mongols. And Nazgul, if i completely destroy England will papal be more likely to ally me?

[Nazgûl Killer]

No, quite the opposite really. They'll be more likely to attack you.

Right now you need to take the "Appeasement" approach. Ally both sides or ceasefire with the English and ally the Papacy and wait until England attacks you. That's what I would do.
Now, once England attacks you, you should have a pre-ready battle plan that will make sure that at least two settlements fall into your hands in the space of two turns. Once England attack you, simply give them hell.

The Pope will inevitably tell you to stop fighting, so once he does, pull back and wait. The English will attack you again and, sooner or later, be excommunicated. Once they are, destroy them.

Patience is the way to go.

[Czin]

Plus, attacking the pope may just get him to use his army and expand (this apparently changes the Papal A.I for some reason, once they fight a war and conquer a territory it seems to switch to the normal agressive A.I). And the papal army is very powerful in the autocalc, so you'll find yourself sharing a border with Popey pretty soon as he streamrolls the A.I factions.

Trust me, fighting those uber high morale swiss/papal guards is annoying as all hell, and you can't destroy the papacy as Nazgul said anyway, even if you destroy every other catholic faction, kill every catholic priest, convert every single catholic on the map, and take any territory the pope has, there will still be a ghost pope waiting around.

[TMK]

No, quite the opposite really. They'll be more likely to attack you.

Right now you need to take the "Appeasement" approach. Ally both sides or ceasefire with the English and ally the Papacy and wait until England attacks you. That's what I would do.
Now, once England attacks you, you should have a pre-ready battle plan that will make sure that at least two settlements fall into your hands in the space of two turns. Once England attack you, simply give them hell.

The Pope will inevitably tell you to stop fighting, so once he does, pull back and wait. The English will attack you again and, sooner or later, be excommunicated. Once they are, destroy them.

Patience is the way to go.

As Nazgul Killer said but afterwards try and ask for a crusade because completing it gives you lots of rep from the Papacy.

[Timur_the_Lame]

yeah i have been gifting the pope alot of money every turn so now my relations are very good with him. but im at war with england still (they only have rennes left). also scotland just got excommed for attacking me so i am finishing them now. im hoping the same happens with england. i will try to get a ceasefire but they wont do it

[recentiy03]

I'm playing as the Moors and I want to make peace with the Papacy but they won't even take my gifts, how can I stop their wrath?

[Czin]

I'm playing as the Moors and I want to make peace with the Papacy but they won't even take my gifts, how can I stop their wrath?

Send bigger gifts, money is the most likely to be accepted.

[recentiy03]

Send bigger gifts, money is the most likely to be accepted.

I thought if they wouldn't take 1,000 they wouldn't take more...I am gonna kill their allies off and then try to give them Sicily, problem is Sicily is one of their allies.

[recentiy03]

I gave the Papacy 50K and my relations with them shot up to Outstanding but they stayed at war with me! Then the next turn it was down to very good and they kept attacking me...is there anyway to get them to stop fighting me? Ceasefire isn't even an option in my diplomacy. I think they might have a crusade against me, is it possible that's why I can't ceasefire?

[Timur_the_Lame]

yes thats why if there is a crusade

[recentiy03]

True, I gave all of my provinces to the Holy Roman Empire without saving and the crusade ended and it said something like "there is no enemy to fear, the Crusade is over." I don't know if it ended because of the sheer number of provinces I gave them or because that included Toledo, which I believe was the focus of the Crusade.

[Timur_the_Lame]

True, I gave all of my provinces to the Holy Roman Empire without saving and the crusade ended and it said something like "there is no enemy to fear, the Crusade is over." I don't know if it ended because of the sheer number of provinces I gave them or because that included Toledo, which I believe was the focus of the Crusade.

it ended because you gave them toledo...and they werent excommed...duh lol.

PEOPLE. I have acquired my long desired alliance with the papal states again (after i had finished off england and Scotland). so yeah