[Citizen] Ferrets54 (Patron : Viking Prince )PASSED - VETO'ED

[Hesus de bodemloze]

Client : Ferrets54

Client :

Listen up. All eyes forward. Come closer. Closer. Closer. Hi, it's me, Ferrets.

Now let's get this all clear. Becoming a citizen holds no particular status or boon for me. I have been a citizen on two seperate occaisions, a member of the CdeC three times (during which time you will have no doubt seen that I voted against some of you becoming citizens, and I would bloody well do it again!) and a Curator for one mind-boggling boring term. Elections, I may remind you, that I won overwhelmingly. I have been elected to the CdeC with more votes than all opposing candidates combined. I have been stopped from being Speaker only by the machinations of the powers that be and I think I can clamber up the rocky crags of my lofty laurels and righteously proclaim I have nothing to prove to you or anybody without any contradiction. Bask in the reflected glory of my irresistable ability to swagger back and forth into the limelight! The people love Ferrets54, and charitably, He loves them too. He would love them again, if you could only allow it.

You have in your elections had to debate one another, express your views, justify yourself running for this position, because of me! I saw that the system overwhelmingly favoured people who were well known, people like me, so I gave you this forum for debate, a chance I hoped where people would be able to shine even if they did not have a user name of a particular hue. I tiered CdeC elections so only three people were elected at any one time, meaning that the winners were of a high quality. This was not garaunteed in the days when we had 10 candidates for nine seats. Other petty cdec procedures have been streamlined by me. Daily, you follow in my blazing wake.

You may say, "Oh, but Ferrets, you're such a rule breaker!" Get out of it, I haven't broken any rules. I wrote the rules for the debate forums. Literally. I always conduct myself in a sincere and legitimate matter, but I will not disrespect anybody by being dishonest if I feel they are wrong, stupid, racist, misogynist, nationalistic or all the things you know quite bloody well are rife in our forums. I have constantly made my stand for what I feel is right, and the problem with that is I don't care who it may be that I have to prove wrong. That has held me back. It may do yet.

You'll have your own opinions no doubt but I think if you do your research then you will find my time in citizenship has been spent very productively and I have been a net contributor to the forums. And, well, it wont stop on the basis of your decision.

Hopefully it will convince the ones that can be convinced and really piss off those who can't.[/QUOTE]

How nice of you to include the fieldset. I will write a short piece of my own and submit.

Patron : Viking Prince

Patron :

I have spent a year as a member of CdeC and I have reviewed many an application. None have the history of Ferrets54. His contributions as a member of staff are obvious. He holds a bronze medal for contributions as a member of CdeC. But I am going to give you my reasons why he should be able to wear the rank of citizen again. I have been a moderator for what seems like a short time. I am still learning what works and does not work. I have discussed many aspects of this with Ferrets54 and sometimes I have agreed with his advice and sometimes I have not agreed with his advice. In all cases, he has been honest and helpful. I believe that as a citizen, he can continue to contribute and be helpful.

For recent contributions, look to his posts in the Mudpit. He might be the master of the short pity post. They do challange the other members to post concise, logical, and direct. His posts make it clear where he stands on the issue at hand and whether the other members are spot on or not. This does not mean that you need to agree with him. It does mean that you should give him credit for presenting good rational for his viewpoints

His last warning was issued on December 28, 2009. On June 28, 2010 he will be eligible for this patronization request to move forward.

[Empress Meg]

Now this must be a joke!

Devoirs The Empress

[Hesus de bodemloze]

Now this must be a joke!

Devoirs The Empress

A lot of joke threads these past few day's. But i am afraid it isn't a joke but a serious request.

[Nikos]

You know what? I say we give Ferrets one more chance. I know he can be a bit stubborn and rancorous some times, but he does know his stuff. If his attitude was a bit better, I think he would have been a phalera by now.

[Leonidas The Lion]

You know what? I say we give Ferrets one more chance. I know he can be a bit stubborn and rancorous some times, but he does know his stuff. If his attitude was a bit better, I think he would have been a phalera by now.

so 3rd time the charm basically?

[Nikos]

so 3rd time the charm basically?

Something like that.
Give him one more chance to prove that he can follow the rules, and if he fails this time, then let it be done with.

[abbews]

I agree with Nikos. This should be like marriage, you can always get a divorce.

[Empress Meg]

Interesting. How does one justify allowing a member who has repeatedly defied the ToS and basically says that they didn't care and will do it again conform to what the curia describes as ideal citizen behavior?

Devoirs The Empress

[Nikos]

Interesting. How does one justify allowing a member who has repeatedly defied the ToS and basically says that they didn't care and will do it again conform to what the curia describes as ideal citizen behavior?

Devoirs The Empress

People can, and do change my dear Empress! Look at me for instance, when I first joined TWC, I was a nobody who posted useless things. Now, I'm a Moderator and have been elected to every Curial office. I know Ferrets is controversial, but love him or hate him, he has contributed a lot to TWC, which is why I think he deserves another chance. And if he fails to follow the rules again, then so be it. But at least we can rest assured that we have given him all possible chances to change.

-Nikos

[Empress Meg]

Right, so what were his other chances then? Do overs? :S

Devoirs The Empress

[Nikos]

Right, so what were his other chances then? Do overs? :S

Devoirs The Empress

They were obviously mistakes, and I cannot account for them. But I think he deserves this one more chance due to his history on TWC. I ask my fellow councilors that he be given this one more chance to prove that he has changed.

[imb39]

Was he stripped of his rank before? I thought he resigned it.

[Empress Meg]

Was he stripped of his rank before? I thought he resigned it.

He is located under the Citizens removed by the CDeC

Medicus Patron: Scorch; Citizen 15/09/2007; Removed: 19/03/08
Maced0n Patron: LestaT; Citizen 01/06/2007; Removed: 8/04/08
Ferrets54 Patron: Praetorian Sejanus; Citizen 26/01/2005; Demoted 29/03/2005; Patron: Tom Paine; Citizen 13/09/2007; Removed 13/11/2008
Scar Face Patron: Scorch; Citizen 11/10/2007
Serious Spamurai Patron: Sir Dinadan; Citizen 23/07/2007
zznɟ ǝɥʇ Patron: jimkatalanos; Citizen 12/11/2007; Removed 16/11/2008
motiv-8 Patron: Thanatos; 02/03/2009; Removed 13/07/2009

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=126071

Devoirs The Empress

[Justinian]

When was the last time Ferrets actually got a warning? People change. Ferrets is the biggest name in the D&D forums and is a veritable god of the forum; sure, he's broken the rules a lot in the past, but it's not the past any more. We shouldn't hold his past beyond six months against him any more than we hold any other candidate's past against them; the rules say six month of good behavior, which he has had. Honestly the idea of him NOT being a Citizen is the joke, not him being proposed. He's long been one of the best debaters, commentators, and comedians on TWC, and no one is more well-known than him.

I have personally banned Ferrets on more than one occasion (way back when as a moderator) and he certainly seems far more willing to follow the rules now than he used to be. I say let him in and treat him the same as anyone else, on his own current merit and not on his past.

[Garbarsardar]

When was the last time Ferrets actually got a warning?

Two warnings in December, one note in May.

I say let him in and treat him the same as anyone else, on his own current merit and not on his past.

He is the one arguing about his past:

Now let's get this all clear. Becoming a citizen holds no particular status or boon for me. I have been a citizen on two seperate occaisions, a member of the CdeC three times (during which time you will have no doubt seen that I voted against some of you becoming citizens, and I would bloody well do it again!) and a Curator for one mind-boggling boring term. Elections, I may remind you, that I won overwhelmingly. I have been elected to the CdeC with more votes than all opposing candidates combined. I have been stopped from being Speaker only by the machinations of the powers that be and I think I can clamber up the rocky crags of my lofty laurels and righteously proclaim I have nothing to prove to you or anybody without any contradiction. Bask in the reflected glory of my irresistable ability to swagger back and forth into the limelight! The people love Ferrets54, and charitably, He loves them too. He would love them again, if you could only allow it.

As to his present merits or demerits some links to recent posts that meet what qualifies for citizenship would be welcomed.

[GrnEyedDvl]

When was the last time Ferrets actually got a warning? People change.

If this is the standard, then why not make every single person on the boards without a warning a Citizen?

I would say you review this application as you do all others. What has he contributed to the site since he was last removed? If you look at his posts between then and now, and put them in the context of a new applicant, would they qualify? That is the only way to handle it. Wipe his slate clean as of his last removal and start fresh.

I also think it a bit ironic that someone who once demanded, yes thats right demanded, that Sim go through the forum and remove every single post of his, now suddenly wants back in.

If the CdeC wants him, then by all means have him. It wouldnt be the only lame thing the CdeC has done recently.

[Hesus de bodemloze]

It wouldnt be the only lame thing the CdeC has done recently.

Care to explain?

As for the candidate i will be voting no, i don't think he can/wants or ever will change. His behaviour and the behaviour of similar others is something I prefer not to come across in the curia.

[Justinian]

If this is the standard, then why not make every single person on the boards without a warning a Citizen?

That is very far from the point I was making; when we're honest with ourselves, the only reason someone with as prolific and excellent a debating record as Ferrets isn't a Citizen is because of his attitude. That statement was speaking towards his recent attitude change, not a suggestion that everyone who doesn't get a warning deserves to be a Citizen. Ferrets is, has and always will be an excellent debater who brings life to the D&D. When you judge his disciplinary record on the same plane as any other prospective citizen -- the past six months -- he's clean.

[Pontifex Maximus]

Ferrets is, has and always will be an excellent debater who brings life to the D&D. When you judge his disciplinary record on the same plane as any other prospective citizen -- the past six months -- he's clean.

Barely. He received a note within the past two days that was very very close to a warning. The person who issued it has a softer heart than I.

[Empress Meg]

Ohh, a fight I did not start. Yay me!

It's still a big, fat, hell no from me.

Let's see the improvement (penance) before granting him citizenship. If he's truly that keen on regaining his rank for the umpteenth time, then prove it first. Rewards, like citizenship, only work when the actions to produce them come first.

I would never give a brand new applicant a "yes" vote did he come into the CdeC with Ferrets54's CV.

Devoirs The Empress