Japan: A puppet State

[BassV2]

Yes, Even the Japanese Guy admits!

http://forum.japantoday.com/Japan_is..._610454/tm.htm

[Guderian]

Japan was never an mutual ally after WW2, it was a puppet state and in many ways still is. It is heavily dependant on the US for it's economy and it's military, and culturally it is lost. Hence the adaptation of US culture. I don't mean to offend you but I'm just telling it how I see it.

[BassV2]

yes! I'm with you... i'm not Japanese . Some people begged to differ in another thread that Japan was NOT a puppet state.

[Richard the Lionheart]

Japan is a puppet state. It's not even allowed to have a real military. The military force it has is pretty much only for domestic use.

[Polemides]

Nowadays the restrictions placed upon the JSDF mainly come from the Japanese government and not the United States.

In fact, the only capability the JSDF lacks is force projection. Japan is also the 6th largest military spender.

[ShangTang]

Japanese has Western Culture? Are you joking?

[BassV2]

Japanese has Western Culture? Are you joking?

Have you seen those picutres regarding "JApanese Fashion" ? Wow.

[IamthePope]

If japan were a puppet state then its foreign policy would be dictated by the United States. This is not the case. We have seen in the recent case of the mad cow scare, that japan has the ability to make policy decisions that are at odds with US wishes. In this case the trivial matter of banning US beef which is a major concern for the US Beef market because a large amount of their exports go to japan every year, was against the wishes of the Bush Administration.

Also japan is has shown that they can use their military in foriegn peacekeeping missions as they have demonstrated by deploying 1500(?) soliders to Iraq.

Neither the United States nor Japan consider Japan to be a puppet state any longer, despite this I recognise your arguments that Japan is perhaps the closest thing to a puppet state that the United states has. I would also like to make the point that the comparison of Britain to a puppet state is quite absurd.

[Fobby]

If japan were a puppet state then its foreign policy would be dictated by the United States. This is not the case. We have seen in the recent case of the mad cow scare, that japan has the ability to make policy decisions that are at odds with US wishes. In this case the trivial matter of banning US beef which is a major concern for the US Beef market because a large amount of their exports go to japan every year, was against the wishes of the Bush Administration.

Also japan is has shown that they can use their military in foriegn peacekeeping missions as they have demonstrated by deploying 1500(?) soliders to Iraq.

Neither the United States nor Japan consider Japan to be a puppet state any longer, despite this I recognise your arguments that Japan is perhaps the closest thing to a puppet state that the United states has. I would also like to make the point that the comparison of Britain to a puppet state is quite absurd.

Japanese dont need and have a real military because like they enconmy they require other countries to help it stay that way, Like even if they created a weapon that can take out any major power in the world how are they gonna build it? they dont have much material, im not saying they are a pupput state but the goverment dont think about war or anything, they think how to improve the peoples lives, Even if a war do break out the UN will protect.

[Ahiga]

I've begun to find it kind of funny how he, and all of us, refer to the people of the far east as "asian", as if their Russian, Middle Eastern, Indian, Central-Asian, and other kindred who make up the continent of Asia are not in fact Asians.

His arguement of cultures is rather flawed, because it often goes either way. There is a large number, at least visible on the internet specifically, of 'whites' (Even that term has some issues, as much as Asian for people of Japan, China, ect. does) who take to their interpritation of the Japanese culture ad naeusm. As for those in Japan doing so..well, not to be sounding very prideful, but America is one of the largest power's in the world..so wouldn't their influence be widespread? Think back to Rome or other powers. If it were China or an African nation in the spot of America's, then it would be the very same, most likely.

The puppet-state's validity comes in the issue of it's military, not so much the culture. Just because some of your citizens may flock to the influence of another country's culture does not make it as if that country holds dominion over you.

[MaximiIian]

It sort of is and sort of isn't. It's sovereign, has it's own culture, miltary, etc...but they often side with the US in diplomatic problems, as well as being forced to accept a western constitution and forced by the allies to have a puny military. Hard to say, really.

[Guderian]

As for those in Japan doing so..well, not to be sounding very prideful, but America is one of the largest power's in the world..so wouldn't their influence be widespread? Think back to Rome or other powers.

I would agree with you if this was concerning Australia but in Japan's case I disagree. Pre WW2 Japan had a very strong culture. The American occupation destroyed that culture in favour of American culture, resulting in the confused state the Japanese youth are in today. Unemployment due to low participation rates, job dissatisfaction, cultural identitiy crisis, nationalistic confusion, trying to cover up war crimes. And to add to all that Japan's economy is slowing, they no longer have the guranteed jobs (in japanese culture jobs used to be family based) like they used to, what was once thought to be the perfect system is failing. IMO the American government does not want Japan to be independant, but they don't want to lose such a vital puupet state in Asia, especially one so close (geographically) to China(South Korea is different because of strategic and political reasons). So they tread carefully.

[Count of Montesano]

As an American soldier who lived in Japan for 3 years, I find this concept far-fetched. I also studied Japanese society my senior year at the University of Washington (one of the top public international studies schools in the nation), and could not find many instances where in the last 20 years Japan bowed to American political or economic will.

A few examples.

1. Japan still maintains a trade surplus with America and many Japanese companies have "outsourced" their manufacturing to America. From Nintendo to Toyota, there are many big Japanese companies that now operate on a large scale in America. It's not true the other way around - America's largest retailer Wal Mart has been blocked constantly from opening stores in Japan. The Japanese government is extremely selective about which companies get to set up all over the country (McDonalds), which get to set up in select locations (Starbucks) and which don't get to come in at all (Wal Mart.) This doesn't sound like any puppet state I've ever studied.

2. Politically, Japan has politely ignored many U.S. political edicts, including the war on terror. Yes they will send money and token troops, but if Japan was a "puppet state" I'm sure America could snap its fingers and have half the JSDF deploy to Iraq tomorrow. The truth is Japan gets far more out of its alliance with the U.S. than the other way around. China and North Korea are still incredibly angry about WW II and Japan would have to spend a large amount of its GDP on defense if it wasn't for the bilateral treaties in place with the U.S.

3. Culturally, Japan is still Japan. For example, America is a largely Christian country but very few Japanese are Christian even after 60 years of "occupation." English may be widely studied but that's true in many countries. Japanese is still the dominant language, unlike India where colonialism has made English more prevalent. One could argue American kids love Pokemon, Power Rangers and Final Fantasy as much as Japanese youth love Lindsay Lohan, Britney Spears or The Incredibles.

4. The final reason Japan is not a puppet country - sovereign legal rights. If an American soldier shoots an Iraqi in the face for no reason, he's going to be punished by a court martial back in the states. If an American soldier does the same thing to a Japanese citizen, he's going to be handed over to the Japanese and be tried in a Japanese court.

[Wild Bill Kelso]

As an American soldier who lived in Japan for 3 years, I find this concept far-fetched. I also studied Japanese society my senior year at the University of Washington (one of the top public international studies schools in the nation), and could not find many instances where in the last 20 years Japan bowed to American political or economic will.

Unfortunatly, many members on this board would rather base thier opinions on information they recieve from 2nd or 3rd hand sources over the information others have collected by direct observation. I agree with you, having lived in Japan for 3 years as well. They may dress with western clothes, but culturally that is where the similiarities end. Anyone who says otherwise has never lived there!

[Guderian]

Japan still maintains a trade surplus with America and many Japanese companies have "outsourced" their manufacturing to America. From Nintendo to Toyota, there are many big Japanese companies that now operate on a large scale in America. It's not true the other way around - America's largest retailer Wal Mart has been blocked constantly from opening stores in Japan. The Japanese government is extremely selective about which companies get to set up all over the country (McDonalds), which get to set up in select locations (Starbucks) and which don't get to come in at all (Wal Mart.) This doesn't sound like any puppet state I've ever studied.

That is exactly the kind of thing that is causing the Japanese youth to be dissatisfied, they get low paid causal jobs becuase it would be easier for Japanese corporations to outsource. Outsourcing is a American trend, Japan is just following it.
Well most puppet state's exist under a dictatorial patron state, with the US this is not the case. If the US were to force Japan to accept US corporations, it would be a disaster not only for the US governemnt but the corporation as well. But they do have alot of influence over Japan, and Japan's economy is entwined with America's.

2. Politically, Japan has politely ignored many U.S. political edicts, including the war on terror. Yes they will send money and token troops, but if Japan was a "puppet state" I'm sure America could snap its fingers and have half the JSDF deploy to Iraq tomorrow. The truth is Japan gets far more out of its alliance with the U.S. than the other way around. China and North Korea are still incredibly angry about WW II and Japan would have to spend a large amount of its GDP on defense if it wasn't for the bilateral treaties in place with the U.S.

I thought Japan can only have a defensive army? How can they acknowledge Us political edicts? The troops in Iraq were really unessacary, that to me is a sign of Japan trying to break the American limitations on thier constitution, I didn't see the US jumping for joy when they decided to send troops, I think it worried the US gov more than reassuring them.
But shouldn't it be thier choice whether or not to spend on military? under the current circumstances Japan has no choice but to accept US troops on thier soil.

Culturally, Japan is still Japan. For example, America is a largely Christian country but very few Japanese are Christian even after 60 years of "occupation."English may be widely studied but that's true in many countries. Japanese is still the dominant language, unlike India where colonialism has made English more prevalent.

That is only religion, I don't think religion equals culture. English is not the most spoken language in India either, not by a long shot.

One could argue American kids love Pokemon, Power Rangers and Final Fantasy as much as Japanese youth love Lindsay Lohan, Britney Spears or The Incredibles.

And I would agree, but that is still American culture, just with a Japanese twist.

The final reason Japan is not a puppet country - sovereign legal rights. If an American soldier shoots an Iraqi in the face for no reason, he's going to be punished by a court martial back in the states. If an American soldier does the same thing to a Japanese citizen, he's going to be handed over to the Japanese and be tried in a Japanese court.

Puppet countries have nearly almost had sovereign legal rights. But even still America pulled out from full occupation of Japan a long time ago. The same cannot be said for Iraq.

[Major König]

Japan is not a puppet state, just heavily influenced by America, and some other democracies. They are very much their own nation, with alot of western additions that actually help them, like a parliamant. The reason they don't have a military is really because of past actions. And they do have a navy and an air force so I guess it kinda mkaes up. But on thw whole, Japan is not a puppet state.

[ShangTang]

I'm sorry, but claiming Japanese culture is Western just because they have TV shows and prosperity is false. Japanese culture is still very distinctly Japanese. Their food is not American, their tv shows are not American, their history is not American, and their way of life is dinstinctly not American. The only thing that is the same is the economic model they operate at.

[Wild Bill Kelso]

The only thing that is the same is the economic model they operate at.

Even that is very different. I don`t see any government organization even remotly similiar to MITI in the US system of Government! For those of you who don`t know what MITI is I suggest you do a little research into its past actions.

[PacSubCom]

Even that is very different. I don`t see any government organization even remotly similiar to MITI in the US system of Government! For those of you who don`t know what MITI is I suggest you do a little research into its past actions.

Whatever influence the US has over Japan, I'm pretty sure the Japanese don't like it one single bit. The Americans are parked on Okinawa, as far away as possible.

Japan is, as Europe, a US protectorate. And influence over both is being lost real fast.The European as well as the Japanese elites are have started to scratch their heads and wonder whether the US still is the legitimate and reliable partner to invest their money in. Especially now, as the US has started to make aggressive moves against them. Afaik, they are already moving their capital out, or more exactly, don't move fresh capital in like they used to. And that is a real danger for the US. But, predictably, the Bushies got it all wrong, and so the US will lose their superpower status. Not confrontation, but cooperation would be the key to retain the US semi-empire.

Russia, Japan and Europe will become ever warmer with each other to counter the unpredictable US. The US simply is to small to stand up against all of these. Or even against each one alone (except Russia).

[Empyrean]

Japan is the world's second largest economy, and our biggest trading partner. There is no way we could force them to do anything without hurting ourselves in a big way.

So Japan is like a big, wealthy puppet which we cannot control, and who would be perfectly capable of survival without us. That is not a puppet, that is a business partner. We both influence each other in a big way... go watch the Cartoon Network and count American cartoons and Japanese cartoons. I'm sure they've got a similar situation over there, where each culture integrates the features of the other that they like. It is a mutually beneficial cultural exchange.

Using the opinion of one Japanese guy living in North America has got to be among the least credible sources imaginable. His position is not helped by his claims that the Japanese are zombies and that white people are all racist and look down on the Japanese.