Sinopic Nobles

[Quinn Inuit]

I have a policy: I don't undo anything I find in the game unless I find some sort of proof that it's incorrect. I figure that everything is in there for a reason, and I should leave it in unless I find out that reason is wrong.

That said, I think the Sinopic Nobles need to go. I've been searching on my lunch breaks for the last few days, and I can find no evidence whatsoever that Sinope was any more well-known for its soldiers than any other Greek city in the region. (I've searched through a lot of stuff. I even read the entire summary of Memnon's lost history of Heracleia Pontica, just in case they were mentioned.) I see no reason not to give Sinope the same Greek colonial units as any other Greek colony city.

Will anyone speak up in defense of this unit?

[Mogan]

No. I had never even heard of it before you mentioned it. The only Greek cities I've ever heard of having provided troops of some class are the already famous ones (Crete, Athens, Corinth, Theben, Sparta, Syracuse & Pergamum). But, as I've understood it, the Pergamese didn't seem to be more skilled soldiers than the Syracusians, more the fact that they had better leadership than their surrounding tribes, and Theben was razed by 280, so I think we can use the EDU space on something else. (If Pergamese hoplites aren't already in, it would be cool just for show. )

[JaNuZ99]

same here, never heard of any class soldiers from Sinope, though as Morgan mentioned if we get rid of them seems like we would have an open slot for units, now idk what exactly we are doing with Syracuse (part of the Greek mini faction right) but being that Syracuse is going to be involved in the first Punic war, so this is chance to add some Syracusean units and add some flavor to it.

[Mogan]

The Syracusean Hoplite is already in the game. For cavalry, I suppose they relied on mercenaries like the other Greeks did, or used locals with poor training for skirmish-purposes.

[JaNuZ99]

The Syracusean Hoplite is already in the game. For cavalry, I suppose they relied on mercenaries like the other Greeks did, or used locals with poor training for skirmish-purposes.

ok, well then like Carados posted +1 DMB slot. YAY!!

[Carados]

+1 DMB slot! Yay!

[Carados]

I actually found quite a few more the other day. What we'll use them for... we'll keep that as a suprise for now

[Ramiro]

If you decide to drop the Sinopic noble maybe there is space for some Siceis/Sicani/Elymians tribal troops for Sicily. I would like to see them as in this period, although they had been under the greek and cartaginian rule for a few centuries there were still some native cities in the interior of Sicily that were independent during the punic wars.

[Quinn Inuit]

Did they do anything of note during our time period? If they were independent, but didn't really fight much anymore, there's not much sense to adding them. Sicily is pretty crowded with regions already.

[Ramiro]

Besides fighting as mercenaries for Syracuse and the Carthagineans and ocassional sieges sufered during the first punic war i dont think so.

I Know sicily is pretty crowded, but my love fot the hellenistic period keeps ringing alarms when i see that 40% of the map is russia and nothing happened there, and in the other hand the samnite wars and the pirric wars wich ultimately decided the fate of western europe can barely be represented with the tiny size of italy and greece.

[Quinn Inuit]

Besides fighting as mercenaries for Syracuse and the Carthagineans and ocassional sieges sufered during the first punic war i dont think so.

Oh, O.K. Do you know of any depictions/descriptions of them?

I Know sicily is pretty crowded, but my love fot the hellenistic period keeps ringing alarms when i see that 40% of the map is russia and nothing happened there, and in the other hand the samnite wars and the pirric wars wich ultimately decided the fate of western europe can barely be represented with the tiny size of italy and greece.

Those will be bigger in the next version...as will Russia. I'm sorry, but any map where north = up and that contains both Scotland and the Indus Valley will also contain Russia and the Sahara. That's just how it goes. Please direct all complaints to Euclid.

[Carados]

Those will be bigger in the next version...as will Russia. I'm sorry, but any map where north = up and that contains both Scotland and the Indus Valley will also contain Russia and the Sahara. That's just how it goes. Please direct all complaints to Euclid.

But, on the flip-side, everything else is going to be much bigger too!!

[JaNuZ99]

But, on the flip-side, everything else is going to be much bigger too!!

U mean like FOE?

[Ramiro]

But why do we have to be restricted by real geography? Why dont make a map where the region more important (politically) are relatively more extense than regions. Just an idea.

[Ramiro]

The only reference is from another mod of RTW:

http://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showth...-Foreign-units

Sorry but i din not find any first hand depictions.

[Carados]

U mean like FOE?

It'll be that size, but not that map.

But why do we have to be restricted by real geography? Why dont make a map where the region more important (politically) are relatively more extense than regions. Just an idea.

Because Italy isn't bigger than Russia!!
It's a nice idea but I wouldn't favour it because it does have a knock-on effect with other things. For example, making Sicily larger might mean we can portray the 1st Punic war a lot better but it means the surrounding seas are a lot smaller and that reduces the impact navies will have in the area. Also, making areas bigger means more settlements can be put in. We have to be careful with this because if we put too many in then that region is going to be proportionally a lot more powerful.

[Quinn Inuit]

But why do we have to be restricted by real geography? Why dont make a map where the region more important (politically) are relatively more extense than regions. Just an idea.

In addition to what Carados said, with which I agree completely, I'd like to point out that we could do all kinds of things if we wanted to divorce ourselves from reality. The trick is how much we can do while staying accurate.

The only reference is from another mod of RTW:

http://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showth...-Foreign-units

Sorry but i din not find any first hand depictions.

Hmmm...no offense to them, but I think I'd like to see some evidence of their weaponry before I made a decision. Look at Sinopic Nobles--the only evidence for their existence seems to come from a non-existent history book by a Roman poet. Sometimes mistakes propagate through the aether.

[Ramiro]

I agree, but my other suggestion may be more drastic. I would like to see all of northern europe GONE from the map. NOthing really interesting happened there at least for another 250 years until Caesar try to land on Albion. But I guess as all of the developers of the MOD are from anglo-saxon origin they would like to see their homeland represented in the game.

I sincerely would like to see a MOD focused strictly on the Mediterranean basin and asia minor, and the final struggle of the hellenic world against rome.

[JaNuZ99]

I agree, but my other suggestion may be more drastic. I would like to see all of northern europe GONE from the map. NOthing really interesting happened there at least for another 250 years until Caesar try to land on Albion. But I guess as all of the developers of the MOD are from anglo-saxon origin they would like to see their homeland represented in the game.

I sincerely would like to see a MOD focused strictly on the Mediterranean basin and asia minor, and the final struggle of the Hellenic world against rome.

Well if you want a mod like that then you might want to try the Iberian Conflict mod. It focuses strictly on the Mediterranean struggles of Italy and Carthage, and Iberia obviously.

XMG for the final greek vs rome struggle

But another thing, you want to see ALL of NORTHERN EUROPE GONE!
(Winston Churchill voice)Are you mad sir!!

Northern Europe is where i eventually make my recruiting grounds (playing as Rome), northern europe is where i meet the fierce and savage germans!, Northern Europe is where criticle settlemnts such as Paris will become modern capitals! NE is where i will i will eventually recruit the bodyguards for my emperors after centuries of treachery by my Praetorian Guard!

and so on

[Ramiro]

Northern Europe is where i eventually make my recruiting grounds (playing as Rome), northern europe is where i meet the fierce and savage germans!, Northern Europe is where criticle settlemnts such as Paris will become modern capitals! NE is where i will i will eventually recruit the bodyguards for my emperors after centuries of treachery by my Praetorian Guard!

and so on

As you say, nothing of this happened for another 250 years, at least.