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Thread: Lithuania VH-VH RC/RR BGR compilation AAR

  1. #1

    Default Lithuania VH-VH RC/RR BGR compilation AAR

    Playing VH-VH with Large unit size- for me sieges and field battles seem too crowded on Huge though occasionally I will play anyway just for slightly more epic feeling battles.

    Early era campaign so Lithuania starts with only Vilnius and not very many pagan regions to expand into. Which makes a big difference with BGR and RR/RC.

    Lithuania has only 3 advantages-

    1. Unique temple line which has great health and law effects as well is quite fast building.
    2. Lithuanian cavalry with long range arrows. Pechnegs and several other HA have short range arrow which means they have to get into range of other HA and archers before even having a chance to fire. As well on skirmish they often don't have the room to run away from a cavalry charge by the enemy.
    3. Isolated start. Should be just enough time to take some rebel regions and have a small base before coming into contact with enemy kingdoms.

    Biggest disadvantages are also 3 but many more small problems in addition to only the unique position of Lithuania due to BGR-

    1. Pagan, priests start low level and have issues dealing with heretics and witches. Crusades AND Jihads both can be called on Lithuania, all neighboring factions are different religions and WILL send missionaries which can hit public order and recruiting if not guarded against.
    2. Lives in a very poor region that takes quite long time to build up.
    3. Relatively expensive units for their stats which living in a poor region makes worse.

    This AAR is intended to run through turn 111 when Lithuania will either be an established power or on the way to being removed from history. I might give 1 update after turn 150 if I continue playing but it is a lot of work to post screens and comments for all the major battles the larger a Kingdom grows.

    This is the 2nd campaign I've played with Lithuania, the first was a campaign some time ago when just started learning BGR and due to the low authority of the king had 50% of my troops not with a FM rebelling every other turn for the first 20 turns (about 1/4 my total forces went rebel by turn 20) and saved it at around turn 60 just when things getting stable (with only 3 regions under control) to return and play again but then lost that save on a reinstall so this is fresh start. Did not intend to make this an AAR but it become quite fun and just figured it would be a good advertisement for SS, RC/RR and BGR IV. The consequence though is the first 20 turns did not take many screen shots. Had an early save to show a couple turns but that is all. However not much was going on, just battles against rebels except a couple early skirmish vs Novgorod.

    EDIT- originally I intended this as a matter of fact AAR but later in the campaign get more into it and write more from a roleplay point of view though I do make frequent mention of game mechanics and battle tactics.

    Screenshots and playthru below;

    Made it a priority to recruit as many Lithuanian cavalry as possible from the start as Vilnius can not support a large army and those guys are the most effective units Lithuania has besides FM for a long time.

    Aimed for the nearest halfway decent Pagan regions and then sieged with small forces to force AI to sally when using the Lithuanian Cavalry. To expand faster did send a few infantry of the starting army to head to the Baltic and capture Palanga(Konigsburg) in more a bloody siege battle but relied on the Lithuanian cavalry forcing sally most of the time and the starting infantry only to garrison the cities afterward and deal with the riots.

    Money issues led me to expand faster than would have preferred so the first battle vs Novgorod occurs on turn 16 following a series of Heroic victory battles vs Rebels and starts with a battle at Polotsk when Novgorod attack the Lithuanian cavalry army which recently captured the city. I figured I could not hold Polotsk but even 3 turns of 800-900 income is useful. There was no garrison the first time as riots hurt precious cavalry units for no reason. I did not see Novgorod was so close to be tempted by an empty city and war was a bit earlier than I had hoped for it to occur.

    Novgorod was the first large opponent and the border became a frequent battle ground with the Lithuanian cavalry the only thing allowing victory after victory. The issue with a low authority king reared up again as well despite taking all the precautions I could, still lost several units to desertion in a few crucial turns. Not only the money cost, but the pool replenishment time and the need to then fight more rebels led to first battle loss when simply could not hold Polotsk against Novgorod. However with a spy nearby could seeing it coming majority of Baltic spearmen in garrison departed and only a depleted units of peasants was inside to hold the Novgorod army a full turn with a siege so the Lithuanian cavalry had time to move into range.

    Mission rewards of 2,500 from the council allowed Lithuania to continue financing the war against Novgorod despite being outnumbered usually 3 - 1.

    Riga, Palanga, Turku, and Thorn are the only settlements with decent % Pagan religion other than Vilnius. Turku is impossible to reach for several turns while Thorn is far to the west and lightly garrisoned so is usually Poland's first capture. Mensk and Hrodna the closest settlements- are 45% and 34% respectively so take some time to convert before capture. Riga and Palanga were the initial targets while Mensk was converted with the solitary shaman first and then the Lithuanian cavalry army of 4 companies + FM returned south and captured it before going NW and running into Novgorod. Hrodna was captured last just before the war with Novgorod started around turn 15.
    Last edited by Ichon; November 16, 2010 at 09:37 PM.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Lithuania VH-VH RC/RR BGR compilation AAR

    With BGR adopting or marrying is quite expensive as the state treasuring endows each new FM's purse so you have to make sure to get a decent new FM especially if you adopt. A Crusade was called quite early on Cairo so that was a relief. Lithuania would have issues defending against an early Crusade.

    Poland begins sending small armies into Lithuanian territory which is a sign of things to come. Just as the border with Novgorod has somewhat stabilized as they lost a huge amount of men, Kievan Rus attacks Mensk with nearly full stack out of nowhere. Luckily was sending reinforcements towards Novgorod and my army of Lithuanian cavalry was near Polotsk waiting to ambush Novgorod and was able to rush south to help at Mensk.

    Debt is the normal state of affairs as Lithuania. From turn 10 to turn 35 was only 4 turns of + income. Combination of poor lands, BGR supply, marriage, and other BGR costs. Luckily had enough Lithuanian cavalry (6) and they take casualties very slowly if used correctly and accepted many ransoms from Novgorod and Kievan Rus while they bothered to pay them to afford retraining though not much building was done. Only temples and shamans and 1 brothel in Mensk to begin build path to assassins to eliminate the pesky missionaries.

    Most of Lithuanian lands are not strong Pagans as the shaman moved on once 51% so even a few catholic and orthodox priests can stir up rebellion. Worst effect is when there is a Lithuanian shaman turned heretic plus 1 Orthodox and 1 Catholic... that causes religious unrest to skyrocket and is not uncommon situation for Lithuania. Luckily the AI is schizophrenic and moved the priests back and forth every couple turns giving my shaman enough time to reconvert to 50% which is the key number for BGR.

    Not sure why the Grand Duke had such low authority... looking at his traits he had a total of +10 authority but only 3 showed and still had occasional units go rebel. (found out later from BYG the creator of BGR that the FL always has hidden traits that -7 from authority)
    Last edited by Ichon; July 29, 2010 at 02:18 AM.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Lithuania VH-VH RC/RR BGR compilation AAR

    Wild swings in finances due to not being aware at the time I played the first 25 turns that in BGR any general's purse used to recruit a unit only applies if the general stays the full time until the unit is recruited. Several times I recruited units then moved the general out of the city which not only means the treasury pays for the units rather than generals purse but does so at 2x cost. Figuring out BGR finances the first 25 turns can be difficult and just plan on being in debt most of the time. It usually starts to stabilize around turn 25 when trade income begins to come in but Lithuania starts without diplomat or any cities large enough to build town hall to recruit a diplomat so that income is much delayed. I had to wait for princess to be born or foreign ministers to arrive and propose trade which meant lots of debt. Later factors for debt are coming of age princes and adoption where the state treasury endows those purses which can mean -2,000 to -6,000 as well as mercenaries can cost over 1,000 per turn when non BGR cost would only be 300.

    Poland arrives in force shortly after Kievan Rus attacks. Only established trade with them 4 turns previously but... did not want to waste time and income paying for defensive army which was needed to the east waiting on them when I was positive the attack was coming so I attacked their weaker armies in my lands to prevent them joining the larger army hanging out around Hrodna.

    So now the fun really begins. Novgorod attacks in the north and all the Lithuanian cavalry is away fighting Kieven Rus and Poland. Making do with infantry still works when the enemy forces are low quality but when Novgorod starts getting better units I'll have problems.

    Poland retreats after my initial attacks and I send a small army to probe their defenses. Usually I would have spies but- Lithuania can't afford them or build them anyway as recruitment requires a FM in residence and only Mensk has a brothel currently but no general. With only 3 FM Vilnius has to have 1 FM present to ensure pools replenish and recruitment can continue while the other 2 FM are out fighting.

    Defeated Poland which attacked my small army sieging Plock and capture Plock. Could really use the ransom money and pretty sure I could defeat a 2nd sally against my siege and still capture town but time is an issue so am forced to refuse ransom as the PoWs would flee inside Plock forcing a 2nd turn of siege... can't afford to stay in one place very long when fighting 3 enemies with barely my entire military consists of barely more than a full stack army which has to defend a large area. At this point I have 6 Lithuanian cavalry, 5.5 Baltic spearmen, 2 Latvian crossbows, 1.5 axemen, 2 skirmishers, 1 levy archer, 1 eastern spearmen, and 4 generals after an adoption.

    Sent my best army south against Kievan Rus attempting to siege and defeat sally as was able to in Poland and ended up fighting 3-4 battles against Kievan Rus armies on the march towards Mensk. The last 2 very, very close calls... almost lost. Had to charge with the Lithuanian cavalry and ended up losing 1 when it was totally wiped out when ran out of arrows and some Rus cavalry caught it as it stopped using skirmish mode. Inflicted more than 3,000 losses on Kievan Rus though.
    Last edited by Ichon; November 16, 2010 at 09:44 PM.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Lithuania VH-VH RC/RR BGR compilation AAR

    On Turn 32 things begin to look a bit brighter. Several of Lithuania's neighbors get into wars with other kingdoms!!!

    Finances are still terrible. Seems to be a 3,000- 5,000 gap every turn between projected profit and actual results. Sacking and looting every town I capture hurts my reputation making allies hard to come by and even worse makes a Crusade more likely but it is the only option for now.

    A fresh Lithuanian cavalry arrives and gets blooded instantly in the ongoing war vs Novgorod. Mist makes HA battles more annoying and often causes me a handful more casualties when I don't notice an enemy cavalry charging and the skirmish responds too slow.

    I have to keep winning Heroic victories vs Novgorod or they will overwhelm me. It is so far relatively easy because most of their units are Junior militia, Pechenegs, and Eastern spearmen with a few FM's and Bardiche militia. I see some Dzurhina with my spy but then the spy fails to infiltrate Smolensk and the border goes dark... now it will be quite difficult to see where Novgorod is attacking from and sending the HA to intercept.
    Last edited by Ichon; July 28, 2010 at 01:05 PM.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Lithuania VH-VH RC/RR BGR compilation AAR

    Since the war with Poland began it is a balancing act with Lithuanian armies racing back and forth between fighting Novgorod and Poland with occasional forays against the Kievan Rus who are slightly less aggressive than the others but these battles provide a few ransoms and also with some sack money from Smolensk I was able to afford more men though Lithuanian cavalry are no longer available for a few turns as their recruitment pool is empty. So fighting Poland for now means more infantry and messier battles. Plus Poland is the first enemy kingdom to begin fielding better quality units. Several Polish noble cavalries in a few battles and always they have 1-3 crossbow cavalry.

    First large army battle vs Poland where I can't use HA tactics as well due to low amount of HA and the Polish having several archers and crossbow cavalry.

    Some tactics to make battles a bit easier...

    Lure out the heaviest enemy units like generals, heavy cavalry, etc using HA or in this case exposed my general on the far end of the line as their archers were shooting at my Latvian crossbows and the AI couldn't resist charging with some Piast nobles... run the general back toward base of hill where some Lithuanian cavalry are sitting higher up on the hill and also a Prussian light javelin cavalry hidden in the woods. The Piast are taken down to 16 from 47 and then my general charges finishing them off only losing 3 men.

    I make a bold move in the north... have to make some gain somewhere since Lithuania can not afford continuously replacing losses as Poland is very aggressive and its higher quality units make winning battles more expensive. I send a very small army led by the Crown Prince to siege Novgorod after using my shaman who is converting the population as a spy. An even smaller army of Lithuanian cavalry is 1 turn behind in case the first army is forced to withdraw. This is the first turn where there are not any Novgorod forces near the border that I can spot however without a spy that doesn't mean alot but I will take advantage and hope for the best.

    Moving 2 armies north leaves Mensk undefended. I thought it would be Kieven Rus to take advantage but Poland shows up. Doubt I can hold them off in a siege. Did pretty well actually but could not fight 2 HC with the men I had so just sold their lives dearly as possible.

    Novgorod army appears outside their former capitol and my combined armies are able to defeat it. Not sure why it was only a clear victory... they actually had a good quality army of several senior cavalry and militia. Probably because I had 3 FM. 1 came of age just in time to participate in the siege.

    Meanwhile the temporary absence of Polish forces encourages me to be bold and send an army to try and capture Thorn. It appears Poland shifted forces east to continue its fight where I was weak and possibly exploit Kievan Rus who they are also in a war with.
    Last edited by Ichon; July 28, 2010 at 01:11 PM.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Lithuania VH-VH RC/RR BGR compilation AAR

    Lithuanian cavalry pull off an astounding victory... ambushed they still win decisively. Apparently the border near Novgorod was not as empty I thought it was. Got lucky in this one... there were 2 hills right on the edge of the map and played ring around the mountain with the Lithuanian cavalry while my general found and killed the enemy general with help of 1 Lithuanian cavalry and then slowly concentrated on whittling the army down. This Novgorod army had better quality units as well so I think I captured Novgorod just in time.

    Took off FoW to check out France winning the Crusade and just see the state of the world. England looks to be defeated by Scotland again while Byzantines also looking strong. HRE accepted an alliance proposal for trade rights and map information with a minister near Mensk when one of my princesses walked by. So that will be handy when we finally share a border. If HRE gets itself excommunicated by then it could work out very well.

    Have 2 princesses out conducting diplomacy... when Poland captured Mensk that left no border with Kievan Rus so a princess was sent to arrange a peace treaty while it was possible. I actually had hopes that Poland would accept a trade of Mensk for Thorn and maybe some cash and ceasefire but they made it clear there would be no peace until one kingdom was eliminated. I'll oblige them but it might take awhile.

    The security of Lithuania as an independent Pagan kingdom is looking better with the threat from Novgorod greatly reduced with their loss of that city. The bad news is France apparently succeeded in the Crusade and captured Cairo. I could be facing a Crusade in a few turns. Luckily Danemark has not shown up yet. I thought they might have landed on the Baltic coast by now.

    My forces are so stretched out and with no money to retrain I only have a rump group of 25 men to push the ram to recapture Polotsk.

    With Poland having moved forces east the way to Plock is open. I can't get any diplomatic deal for Thorn and it revolts back to Poland but it is a shadow of its former self after being pillaged to the ground and several years of riots. Poland will take at least 2 decades to rebuild.

    Poland shows up with another army near Hrodna. I thought they would siege but they moved towards the Baltic. I had exited the city with my general so he wouldn't get trapped in a siege I wasn't sure I could win but Poland avoided battle despite having a much larger army.
    Last edited by Ichon; July 28, 2010 at 01:20 PM.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Lithuania VH-VH RC/RR BGR compilation AAR

    Money is still an issue... -4,000 to somewhere but not obvious where with BGR. No obvious coming of age, marriage or supply purchases. Not using any mercenaries either so... no idea.

    (later on I learn many of these mysterious turns of large negative finances followed my recruitment cycles where I often recruited a large number of units when having money on a turn then move the FM who did the recruiting out of the city which adds 2x costs. Recruit 4-5 units and this is easily 1500 or more in costs which show up the following turn- some of the missing money is still a mystery however)

    The raiding army could get trapped in Poland. Have to sit in the city a full turn to pillage it fully and Poland seems to have armies everywhere which could siege trapping the Lithuanians inside the city to endure riots and have several reinforcing armies in range making a sally difficult and withdrawing impossible. There are many calculated risks Lithuania must make in attempting to expand in the face of hostile powers and this is only one of a many.

    Poland is screwing with Lithuania right now, avoiding battle with a large army and moving east, then west, then back towards the east. The AI is hard to figure out sometimes but 3 turns now its been running around in my land and avoiding battles it actually has a chance of winning. Not to mention failing to siege Plock.

    Will take advantage of that to arrange a trade with Kievan Rus. Plock to them for some much needed cash although I might have gotten a better deal I didn't want to blow it getting greedy. I don't do repeat reloads so if the deal fails I will have to wait a turn for a 2nd try where Plock could rebel or Poland could capture it.

    They accept and my army exits the town... and neatly springs an ambush by a strong Polish army. At least 5 HC that I can see vs my depleted army. Time to leave Poland. Ironically due to the Plock being completely pillaged Kievan Rus gets 5 HC mercenaries as garrison... let those two armies fight it out while Lithuanian forces make a strategic retreat as quickly as possible.

    So Poland was planning on luring away forces from Vilnius and then doubling back and laying siege. Sneaky maybe, but worthless strategy, if only the AI had gone there first instead of wasting 4 turns for me to get forces to respond it might have done some damage.

    After taking care of Poland in the west- a return to Mensk which has been under Polish control far too long is planned.

    Ah! Many of spear militia in that army... I think I can risk a sally with 2 Lithuanian cavalry, masters of the Poles and not wait for reinforcements!

    Actually turned out closer than I thought it would- my general's BG caught a ballista bolt as they deployed from the gates and then the Polish crossbow cavalry was annoying. The Lithuanian cavalry also made a rare mistake... allowed the enemy general to catch them and lost half their number in a melee they barely were able to withdraw from. Almost killed the Lithuanian general rescuing them.
    Last edited by Ichon; July 28, 2010 at 01:33 PM.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Lithuania VH-VH RC/RR BGR compilation AAR

    Lithuania is close to establishing stable borders for the Duchy.

    Money is continually tight though...

    Siege of Smolensk with intention to wait for some infantry to push the ram but Novgorod decides to sally. You'd think they would learn... (the day when AI can learn will be slightly scary though)

    Capturing Novgorod made a huge difference and was worth losing Mensk. Twice the income and much more advanced. Will be a valuable part of the Duchy for a long time. With no money nothing can be built, including Pagan temples, so the Orthodox population would be extremely restless without being under the eye of the Grand Duke himself- as soon as a temple is built the Grand Duke departs with the intention of adding Reval to his possessions and leaves his grandson in charge with as many of his councilors as were willing to transfer their service. The Duke is feeling his age of nearly 70 and felt the need to pass on valuable advice and councilors before he weakened . The low authority issue of the early years is no longer a problem but while several valuable titles will be passed down, sadly he cannot pass down his authority or the crown of Novgorod.

    Mensk shall be returned to the Duchy and Poland never again shall rule over Lithuanians.
    Last edited by Ichon; July 28, 2010 at 01:40 PM.

  9. #9
    Groenepuntmuts's Avatar Miles
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    The netherlands

    Default Re: Lithuania VH-VH RC/RR BGR compilation AAR

    Good to see someone else playing Lithuania, and nice campaign you have going on there. one question though, I see you brought the HUD back to "vanilla" 6.2. did you do that manually, or does BGR do that?

  10. #10
    Byg's Avatar Read The Manual

    Join Date
    Nov 2005

    Default Re: Lithuania VH-VH RC/RR BGR compilation AAR

    Quote Originally Posted by Ichon View Post
    Money is still an issue... -4,000 to somewhere but not clear where with BGR. No obvious coming of age, marriage or supply purchases. Not using any mercenaries either so... no idea.
    Perhaps economic damage from armies at home in the field?

    Have your generals been putting some in their pockets? The leader also tops up his purse as necessary. Do you check their purses and estate purchases?

    Generals may also keep ransoms and conquest money, which wont leave your treasury until the following turn, affecting projected income I think.

    Also bear in mind that projected profit can be hit by being sieged or by enemy armies on your land or any changes in trade during the ai turns.
    Last edited by Byg; June 27, 2010 at 12:27 PM.

    NEW BGR V 20150324! . . . . . . . .. . . .BGRIV_E

  11. #11

    Default Re: Lithuania VH-VH RC/RR BGR compilation AAR

    Quote Originally Posted by Groenepuntmuts View Post
    Good to see someone else playing Lithuania, and nice campaign you have going on there. one question though, I see you brought the HUD back to "vanilla" 6.2. did you do that manually, or does BGR do that?
    Not sure honestly... I did not even notice the difference. I have SS 6.2 basic installed on gf computer but rarely play it. I play in windowed mode = true so I can do stuff online during AI turn that makes everything looks a bit small to me. I use the keyboard to move the screen and for shortcuts mostly and rarely using any buttons on the HUD and only use the mouse to move units. I have FPS style setup since my fingers are used to that and I just changed common shortcut keys to my weapon slots in other games.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Lithuania VH-VH RC/RR BGR compilation AAR

    Quote Originally Posted by Byg View Post
    Perhaps economic damage from armies at home in the field?

    Have your generals been putting some in their pockets? The leader also tops up his purse as necessary. Do you check their purses and estate purchases?

    Generals may also keep ransoms and conquest money, which wont leave your treasury until the following turn, affecting projected income I think.

    Also bear in mind that projected profit can be hit by being sieged or by enemy armies on your land or any changes in trade during the ai turns.
    Checked FM traits and purses constantly trying to see what was going on and did have 2 buy estates but I thought that comes from their own purse? Yes, ransoms and even executions take money from the state and give it into generals purse I know but I added up the difference and still a few k short on most turns.

    The only thing I can't account for is enemy armies on Lithuanian land. I didn't think they would do thousands of damage but there is definitely alot of armies moving around. I check the foraging costs on my own generals and it is usually showing 1/4 used and 7/8s available because I had mostly very small armies. If the enemy was depleting my lands wouldn't it show on the forage available on my own generals or is it a separate calculation?

    Haha... well I have no trade at all so it is not trade. Sieges are possible but amount to only a few 100 difference not thousands. My towns were sieged by Novgorod almost every other turn for awhile but the income went from 800 to 600 during the siege. Even if 2 were sieged at once that is only 400 difference from projected profit. The actual difference is usually between 2,000 and 5,000.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Lithuania VH-VH RC/RR BGR compilation AAR

    Have you clicked on faction summary window, gives a summary of nobles costs and contributions.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Lithuania VH-VH RC/RR BGR compilation AAR

    Quote Originally Posted by Point Blank View Post
    Have you clicked on faction summary window, gives a summary of nobles costs and contributions.
    The nobles costs are usually given as such a wide range it is not very useful. Usually says something like- "between 2,000 and 3,500"

    The nobles contributions usually range between 1,100 and 1,900 and is helpful when trying to decide to levy scutage or not.

    I'm not saying it is a game ending bug or annoying enough to stop playing. It is just annoying enough not to try and add the finances up every turn.

    I just accept there are many turns of negative income and move on. It does make the campaign more interesting in a way as the treasury really feels like it is scrapping by barely. Even purchasing a single new construction feels like an accomplishment.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Lithuania VH-VH RC/RR BGR compilation AAR

    The battle for Mensk should be interesting. I usually prefer to engage all enemies at once when the numbers are less than 2 full stacks to get max xp and traits for my commander but in this case Poland has 8 cavalry and some ballista and catapults. 2 FM, 2 Frankish Mercenaries, and 2 Piast Nobles. + 2 crossbow light cavalry. That could hurt my forces pretty bad as I am unable to counter if more than 2 HC charge at once + with that many forces and both armies having siege artillery I would be getting hit from different angles with flaming missiles. I have only 1 FM and 4 HA and only 3 spear units. So I elect to attempt a night battle so the 4 cavalry in the reinforcements can't participate.

    The night attempt is successful and the battlefield favors my forces. A long gentle slope toward my end up the field with 2 hills on either side of enemy starting position. Order the Lithuanian cavalry to charge for the high ground to rain arrows down as elevation makes a huge difference at battle start and Poland nicely puts 2 of its HC on the wings. 1 Piast Nobles and 1 Mercenary Frankish knights fall by arrow before even touching any of my forces. Meanwhile the Poles send their crossbowmen forward and after a few volleys from my Latvian crossbowmen at the top of the hill my general charges and makes short work of them.

    1 Piast nobles charges my general who is returning up the slope from routing the crossbows and 2 Lithuanian cavalry race to put as many arrows as possible into them before they reach my general. They take them down to 14(higher elevation parallel to their course below on the slope) and my general only losses 3 men finishing them off.

    Meanwhile the other 1 Lithuanian cavalry is skirmishing with the Polish FM and lead him up the hill to face a withering barrage which kills the general and most of his men while his companion unit(always try to have HA work in pairs) puts arrows into the ballista team which scored a lucky hit on the Lithuanian cavalry up the slope killing 14 in 1 shot. The few men alive in the Polish generals bodyguard retreat. That is the signal for a general charge and the entire Lithuanian line charges forward while my general circles to the rear and attacks the strongest concentration of enemy. The Poles are surrounded and their general is dead... most begin to flee for their lives.

    A few survivors flee to Mensk and the following siege battle is a bit complicated due to a 2nd reinforcing army which arrives but between the Lithuanian cavalry and the fact the Poles had only a captain in command of the relieving army the battle was not too bad.

    The Grand Duke dies on his way to capture Reval. That invasion is postponed when his former army rebels(2 Baltic spearmen + 1 axeman + levy archers).

    The Crown Prince as heir takes the title of Grand Duke and other than that single rebellion the transfer of power is smooth. The new Duke has already proven himself so the questions of authority his father had to deal with are not an issue.

    The Orthodox population of Smolensk leads a rebellion against the undermanned garrison and the new Duke elects to abandon the city. A small force of Lithuanian cavalry will patrol the border but the threat from Poland and the western nations is greater while the remnant Novgorod state is a effective buffer with the Cuman tribes of the steppes. With Mensk returned to Lithuania, Kieven Rus could return to war and Poland is proving resilient with a new army spotted near the Baltic coast.

    The new Grand Duke decides to marry his youngest sister who has proven a poor diplomat to a distant cousin in hopes the cousins loyalty to the family will improve as a result.
    Last edited by Ichon; July 28, 2010 at 01:45 PM.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Lithuania VH-VH RC/RR BGR compilation AAR

    Nice AAR and great playing

    And people still complain regularly that archers are underpowered in RC

  17. #17

    Default Re: Lithuania VH-VH RC/RR BGR compilation AAR

    Arrows work well in the right situation. RR/RC does a great job of showing that. If a heavily armored formation approaches facing the archers with shields raised... even with elevation archers won't cause enough losses to win the battle. However if you get archers to focus fire on enemy elite units or flank the armored guys their fire is more effective and your other units have an easier time winning the battle. HA are so great because they can flank fast and reposition fast but the same things can be done with foot archers a bit more slowly while the foot archers have advantage of more firepower. Heavier armored units take less losses even with rear fire but it isn't until late high era that most enemies have lots of heavily armored units in each army.
    Last edited by Ichon; July 28, 2010 at 01:47 PM.

  18. #18

    Default most interesing battle so far this campaign

    So the force of 5 Frankish Mercenary Knights hired by Poland reappears with a single company of Hunter archers and a single Piast Noble unit.

    This is a strong force at this point in the game due to 6 heavy cavalry.

    I decide that fighting them with any infantry army Lithuania can field at this point would lead to huge losses so I'll risk my elite Lithuanian cavalry army that I had wanted to send on a raid into Poland.

    The battlefield terrain is not so favorable to the Lithuanian forces. A few hills are the saving grace but with lots of forests and the enemy starting on the high ground makes the initial deployment choices interesting. I elect to put the general far away initially and hope he baits some Franks his direction while hiding some Lithuanian cavalry in the woods overlooking the route some Franks might take towards the general.

    2 other Lithuanians are left on a rise in clear ground with fire at will orders to do as much damage as possible while the Polish forces advance. The Prussians are positioned to have a clear shot when those 2 HA are forced to flee. I had a new 1 Prussian unit which had just finished retraining join as reinforcement because it was available and barely in range of the battle site.

    The battle opens with the Polish forces advancing slowly at first and sending the hunter archers running forward to try and shoot at the Lithuanians on the slope. That does not work well and the Hunters lose 3/4 of their men without getting a shot off but then the Franks charge and the battle gets busy and confusing. 1 Frank and 1 Piast nobles charge in the direction of my general while 3 Franks charge towards the Lithuanians on the slope and the Prussians. As the Piast nobles are in the lead of the charge the hidden Lithuanians open fire and decimate them but cause the final Frankish knight company to charge their direction.

    It is hard to describe here in detail but I hope the screens show basically what happened. The Lithuanians reposition with 1 fleeing a Knight unit and 1 trying to gain elevation while the Franks chasing the fleeing unit pass underneath them. The Prussians take as many shots as possible and then block 1 Frankish unit from pursuing the Lithuanians so can get 2 to 1 odds on the Franks. Since the reinforcing Prussians are not on the scene yet there is 1 Frankish unit I lose track of and it costs me later. I sometimes take off skirmish mode in order to get the Lithuanians to reposition where I want as the skirmish on makes them do weird things at times.

    The general runs away from the few remaining Piast nobles and Frankish knights chasing him while 1 of the hidden Lithuanian cavalry is forced to flee while the other continues chasing and pouring arrows into the enemy pursing the general. When I see the Piasts are down to 7 men and the Franks have only 14 the general turns and charges while the Lithuanians helping him launch a final volley and turn to help their brother unit.

    Lose half the Prussians in the blocking maneuver but that was actually less than I thought I would. This allows a perfect triangulation on a Frankish knights unit and takes them down in a few seconds. However the 1 Frankish Knights unit I lost track of charges 1 of the Lithuanian cavalry I took skirmish mode off... I notice just in time to attempt a retreat but the charge hits pretty hard. Takes that Lithuanian unit down to 17 men though the Franks lose 10 men due to arrows and the high melee of a 8 xp unit. That Lithuanian cavalry is left on skirmish and hopefully will occupy those Franks until I am ready to deal with them. At some point the 17 men lose 12 more... probably when turning at the edge of the battlefield the Franks caught a few of them again. That is another reason to try and get HA to work in pairs. 1 bait and one pursuing. If they only flee eventually in turns and corners of the battlefield they will be whittled down by the chasing unit.

    At this point in the battle I have taken out 3 heavy cavalry and inflicted losses on the rest. Now with more room to work in it becomes much easier and essentially just draw the rest of the Franks 1 by 1 past Lithuanian cavalry on high ground using my general as bait. The general charges twice and sets weakened Franks to rout. Meanwhile I notice that the enemy general was actually the Hunters... the only infantry the Poles brought and one of the Prussians charges the remnants and kills the general. The other Prussian unit and 1 Lithuanian cavalry had ended up across the battlefield from the main action now and unfortunately the orders for the Lithuanians to return at a gallop are not relayed and they decide to walk resting their horses. The Prussians however are still eager for more action and charge the Franks who caught the Lithuanian cavalry and catch them completely offguard as they were reforming.

    Overall a tough battle and though the result looks ok the one mistake really annoys me as it might have been even better. Those are the battles it is tempting to try again. With the frequent pauses though it took me about 30 minutes to fight. A long time for a battle with such small forces. Unfortunately due to the auto merge at the end of battles my 5 man 8 xp Lithuanian cavalry is merged with another unit so I essentially lost 1 unit. I can recruit another but 9 xp takes awhile to earn. That is my second Lithuanian cavalry lost in this campaign.
    Last edited by Ichon; July 28, 2010 at 01:48 PM.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Lithuania VH-VH RC/RR BGR compilation AAR

    The Lithuanian Duchy has only reduced the threat from Novgorod while Poland and other Catholic nations are still a threat. Meanwhile the Principality of Kiev decides to renew its attempt to capture Mensk.

    The siege looked bad at first as they had many AP units and 2 Senior Militia HC but came in 2 separate groups and the AI stopped to throw all its catapult ammunition against the walls while the Grand Duke who was in residence was able to go and crush the enemy companies on one side of the city and return just in time for the gate breach.

    Meanwhile I tried to raid Poland and ran into a large stack with 2 FM's including the Polish king. That combined with many siege weapons and not feeling so confident with only 3 Lithuanian cavalry and a general whose bodyguard was quite low a tactical retreat was tried. The Poles followed and forced a battle that I honestly wasn't sure I would be able to win simply due to the King's bodyguard being so large(43).

    The battlefield deployment opened with my forces stuck in a forest on low ground so I redeployed to a side a bit away from the enemy likely deployment so would have room to run for the hill on the other side of the battlefield.

    Once the battle started my forces gained the hill while the Poles numerous siege were stuck in the forest where they had initially moved. The Polish general pursued and nearly trapped my army in the corner. The Lithuanian cavalry combined did about 90 kills each while the Prussians had about 30 each but it was all General bodyguard. The first Polish general charged early and was down to 11 men by the time got close and my general closed and entered melee with him. However the rest of the Polish army was close behind and the general had to turn and flee before getting trapped. The enemy general escaped with 3 men. Meanwhile the order to focus all fire on the enemy King was working and his bodyguard were falling but oh so slowly...

    For a bit did not have time to think much as it was all maneuvering trying to avoid getting trapped. Just as made it through a small gap while using the Prussians to shield my general the very last volley by the Prussians killed the enemy King. A Lithuanian cavalry which had already fired all its arrows killed the other Polish general and a 2nd Lithuanian cavalry fell upon the Polish siege artillery. My general and his accompanying Prussians circled the enemy infantry and joined the fight against the artillery. So far despite losing 2 generals the Polish morale remained strong.

    Taking out the artillery lowered the Polish forces below 50% and the first Polish unit routed when charged from 2 sides. After that it was simply moping up. Going for the hill and concentrating fire on the king won this battle. If the Lithuanian cavalry hadn't been firing from an elevation not only would their kills be less than 90 each(which is bad because otherwise not even close to 50% and more difficult to rout the infantry later in the battle) but the Polish bodyguards would not have died so easily.
    Last edited by Ichon; June 28, 2010 at 06:21 PM.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Lithuania VH-VH RC/RR BGR compilation AAR

    Tally of kills from the close battle related above. Regretting even more losing that veteran cavalry. With just 1 more cavalry could have had a much easier battle. The 1 Lithuanian cavalry with low kills ran into a forest and the enemy pursing were then protected by the trees etc which is why forests are quite poor terrain for any archers except javelin troops(which fight best positioned on the edge of a forest in hiding so their volleys hit in the clear and they gain the bonus for forest fighting).

    Meanwhile had a turn with positive cash and so built some higher level temples, retrained men, and finally started building some watch towers along the border in the east. I don't plan on expanding in the east aside from punishment raids so need to establish good LoS to help my future border guards know where to go.

    Reval had been captured the previous turn with forces freed up from the Novgorod front and a spare general who was starting to feel unappreciated managing Vilnius though he had led the construction of a fortress.

    Choices, choices.... attack and kill a weak Polish army, turn west and siege Thorn, enter an undefended town that is for sure closer to more Polish forces and risk being trapped.

    Have to decide what to do with the men at Hrodna. Have been slowly retraining as could afford it but starting to feel like it is wasting money for them to remain there doing nothing. Meanwhile Reval is the only region with enough Pagans to be added to the domains. I might just send them to Reval as a guard against Danemark or whoever or possibly cross into Finland and end Novgorod claims on that territory. Several turns marching and would require a general to accompany so no rebellion is also costly on BGR. However the 1 shaman who had converted Thorn to 50% pagan turned heretic and thereafter converted it down to 25% pagan and 33% heretic. Have another shaman on the way but if capture Thorn would not be able to hold it against the population so... infantry moves to slowly to send on punishment raids and they are costing money.

    Decide to send the Hrodna men worth anything north to Reval and disband some others. The general in Hronda is the only effective administrator I have and makes almost 400 difference in the income so he stays. The current general in Vilnius will leave and escort the men north. It will be the first time since game start there is not a general in Vilnius. Its been the only region making a concentrated effort to build up. Since money is so tight making military buildings in other regions is pointless as can't afford anyway. Temples, city upgrades, and basic barracks are the only things I've been building. No markets yet since there is no trade and the populations are so small the money would take almost 20 turns to pay back in most cities.

    A bit of a BGR exploit with Plock. I send the least experienced Prussian company into the town to sack and gain money for the state rather than the generals purse plus get better LoS to check out for nearby Polish armies. Then I'll risk putting the general in the town over a season to give the necessary orders to burn it to the ground next season. Taking a risk for only 500 money but the money situation is still tight.

    While deciding what to do with the men in Hrodna I notice that Palanga is being converted to a town! I put those orders in ages ago at the start of the campaign and apparently the autobuild had enough money to follow through. Not sure if that is what I really want or not... well- if I capture Thorn it should be fine but the Prussian axemen I recruited there were very effective when I sieged Mensk. Thorn is several turns away from being captured though. However if I convert to a town I can raze the buildings and get some money. I think I will cancel the order for now... the final decision was made when I remembered that RC/RR recruitment pools mean I might lose the ability to have 2 Lithuanian cavalry. Can't afford that. At least I get the conversion money back.

    Then I realize with no general in the town I can't change the orders... there goes 1,000 and 2 cavalry from the pool. :-( Now I need to focus on capturing Thorn quickly.

    News of a new militant Christian order is worrisome while Danemark pursues war against the Holy Roman Empire... my allies who have just supported founding the Teutonic Order. Wonderful.

    Winter turns to spring and the Duchy of Lithuania is starting to be seen as an independent power to be taken seriously. Money spent the previous turn on watch towers begins to pay off.
    Last edited by Ichon; June 28, 2010 at 07:46 PM.

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