A shift in the political landscape?

[Francisco Montana]

Seriously, I've always been a very moderate republican throughout my life.

I was for gay rights (when it was just rights, not marriage they wanted)

I'm a man and therefore find myself hardpressed to impose my morality on a woman when it comes to the issue of abortion. I'm pro-life. But I'm most likely never going to have a baby in the near to distant future. So I feel, well, I just don't feel I have the right to 'determine' a woman's ultimate decision. I just wish it wasn't used for birthcontrol. If I had my way, it would be legal and nobody woud use it because they would share my moral standards and understand they are terminating the life of a (in many cases) vialbe and (in all case) individual and defenseless human-being.

I've gone back and forth on the death penatly more than John Kerry on national security issues (and that's alot!). Some POS just don't deserve to live. But then, I do believe that with some things it may not be our place to decide. I'm not terribly religious, but ironically, I feel like I'm more in line with real Christians on this as far as Christ's teachings (love they enemy) than alot of them. I even tend to defend 'the right' on the latest culture war "religious" issues (you know secularist vs traditionalists). My mother (she's getting up there in years) agrees. How can we be against abortion and for the death penalty? I know the arguement, remember I'm a registered republican, the criminal isn't innocent like the unborn child. But, I will assert, the issue is really more, who are we to decide? I can play devil's advocate on either side of this issue, it just so happens that today, I'm against it. At least I'm intellectaully honest enough to admit I challenge my own beliefs from time to time.

I'm actually disgusted with the republicans right now on two issues. Drunken sailor spending and the sives that are our northern and southern borders. But then this brings me to my point.

I'm a moderate conservative and the republicans are moving more to the left.

Meanwhile, Micheal Moore and Howard Dean are pulling the Dems to the left.

That leaves us with a different landscape.

Rather than Republicans vs Democrats, I argue it's more like Democratic Republicans vs Socialists.


Happy Friday, Mud Pit.

Peace.

[Total Warrior X]

I disagree, I believe both parties are moving to the right. It is the rise of the religious conservatives from the 80's on that makes that pushed the party to the right. Nixon (who would have been a good president if it wasn't for Watergate and Henry Kissinger) had actually invoked liberal policies such as creating the EPA but Reagan and the religious conservatives changed the party. The Dems are moving to the right to look "moderate" and witht he realization they can not spend withthe deficit.

[Francisco Montana]

I respectfully disagree Total Warrior. The rest of the world is pulling us to the left threw it's media and it's connections to the Democratic party. What does the American right have to lean on? The United States is vastly becoming the lone Unapologenic Capitalist, free market nation left on the planet. We're all shifting to the left. That's why some of on the right have started pulling a little harder lately. (or louder if you will, as a consitutancy)

In fact, that brings me to that whole, "Conservatives think with their heads, Liberals think with their hearts."

I'd rather be smart than nice.

Smart get's you 5.4% unemployment and a pay-check.

Nice get's you 13% unemployment and a govt hand-out.

[Total Warrior X]

I respectfully disagree Total Warrior. The rest of the world is pulling us to the left threw it's media and it's connections to the Democratic party. What does the American right have to lean on? The United States is vastly becoming the lone Unapologenic Capitalist, free market nation left on the planet. We're all shifting to the left. That's why some of on the right have started pulling a little harder lately. (or louder if you will, as a consitutancy)

In fact, that brings me to that whole, "Conservatives think with their heads, Liberals think with their hearts."

I'd rather be smart than nice.

Smart get's you 5.4% unemployment and a pay-check.

Nice get's you 13% unemployment and a govt hand-out.

The meida is not connected to the Democratic party, not at all. The media is mostly Republican owned an operated in the U.S. The rest of the world's news media is less sensationalism and less censored. The world is not moving more left, the US is moving more to the right and the world is reacting to it. The international media is not tied to any party in the U.S.

Although the U.S. has lower unemployment rates than Western Europe, the U.S. has the highest poverty rate of any first world country. Thats the weakness of the free market society.

[Guderian]

Before I enter this discussion can I have a definition of what you mean by the Left and the Right, Conservative and Liberal?

[Francisco Montana]

There's no real basis of compairisn, mate. Other than what the Republican and Democrat parties were like 20 years ago vs what they are like today.

My assertion, if you will, is that the world is way more left than the United States. I think all reasonable TWC's could agree on that. Well, in turn, that is pushing our nation itself and the parties we have (namely 2 lol) to the left as well. Your media and the 'international' left movement have alot of ties in our Democrat party. You must know that, again I think most reasonable people would agree.

So that's where we are. I, as a moderate republican feel like everything is shifting left and leaving me further on the right than I was by yesterday's standards. (or 20 years ago, remember)

Taking me from 'moderate republican' to 'down right conservative' by relative standards.

I also further assert that rather than the Republicans vs Democrats it's become the Democratic Republicans vs the Socialists in this country.

Just food for thought and you are always more than welcome to grace us with your opinions, good Guderian. :original:

[Darth Wong]

How can anyone say the Republicans are moving to the left when they've been pushing this hard right religious agenda? The government has no business promoting any religious agenda; that is precisely what the Establishment clause was expressly intended to prevent. Did you know that the FBI has been pulling people off the War on Terror in order to investigate makers of heretofore perfectly legal pornography in California? Or that the federal parks & rec people at the Grand Canyon were ordered to add creationist literature to their selection for tourists? Or that creationism is making inroads into school boards across the nation? Look at that ridiculous Janet Jackson circus, when a few seconds of nipple created a nationwide uproar. Meanwhile, in Germany they show nudity on prime-time TV. And no, it hasn't caused any problems; the rate of sexual assault in Germany is actually only one quarter as high as it is in the US.

The country is not moving to the left; in the last few years it has moved to the right. But this is probably a reaction to the long-term trend of society moving leftwards, which is probably not a bad thing. 50 years ago, the conservatives were the ones saying that blacks should be segregated from whites. 100 years ago, the conservatives were the ones saying that women shouldn't get the vote. 150 years ago, the conservatives were the ones saying that slavery was OK. Yes, we've moved left over the long-term, but people only see this as a good thing from a distance. When it's close to your personal situation and you are facing social change and the fear that goes along with it, people clam up more.

[Guderian]

My assertion, if you will, is that the world is way more left than the United States. I think all reasonable TWC's could agree on that. Well, in turn, that is pushing our nation itself and the parties we have (namely 2 lol) to the left as well. Your media and the 'international' left movement have alot of ties in our Democrat party. You must know that, again I think most reasonable people would agree.

I disagree, I belive the US is moving furthur to the right. Your definition of left and right is what is most important here. Many of the policies enacted by the republicans that may seem left to you, seem like reasonable moderate policies to me. And that is not because of the fact that I myself am of the left, see what i meant? this could get confusing without clear definitions

From what I have seen, it seems American definitions of the left and right are absolute ones. For me left (economically and socially respectively) would be removing some strong capitalist policies (not all) in favour of some socialist ones and advocating more freedoms for every citizen that is reasonable. Hard left would be communist policies and total freedom, where the government makes no laws at all concerning a person's social life. Looking only at the changes made by the current US administration, I can't say they've moved left at all.

I also belive that we (as in democratic nations) need at least a three or at maximum a four party system, the other parties should be Idealists, who are able to block regressive or anti constitutional policies in parliament (or the senate for you guys IRC) especially if both of the other parties are starting to finish off each other's sentences...

our media and the 'international' left movement have alot of ties in our Democrat party. You must know that, again I think most reasonable people would agree.

Do you mean they are influenced by the left movement as in socialist and Marxists? If so there are not many "leftist" movements that are not. As for the media I doubt they are influencing the dems (anymore than the usual), I think it is more the case of the usual politics i.e you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours.

Yes, we've moved left over the long-term, but people only see this as a good thing from a distance. When it's close to your personal situation and you are facing social change and the fear that goes along with it, people clam up more.

Very true. It also applies to the right in a leftist society.

In fact, that brings me to that whole, "Conservatives think with their heads, Liberals think with their hearts."

I'd rather be smart than nice.

Smart get's you 5.4% unemployment and a pay-check.

Nice get's you 13% unemployment and a govt hand-out.

I just noticed that...I doubt many liberals only think with thier hearts, let's just say we all think with our heads but are being controlled by different parts of our body. Or in other words:

"Conservatives are influenced by thier testicles, Liberals by their hearts."

[Erik]

I just noticed that...I doubt many liberals only think with thier hearts, let's just say we all think with our heads but are being controlled by different parts of our body. Or in other words:

"Conservatives are influenced by thier testicles, Liberals by their hearts."

Yeah, I fully agree about this.
It's not that Socialists (just to use the "S" word) don't make intelligent decision, they just have different goals.

Now about you Lord Alameda:
Could it be that you shifted to the right without even realizing it?
I'm 26 (27 in 3 days), so I can't tell you how thing were more than 10-20 years ago.
But I am convinced the US has shifted a lot towards the right during the last years.

[JP226]

i think politically the republicnas are looking for the middle majority, if their is such a thing. The dems are being over taken by their base.

Everyone else, I think as a society we are heading right. I went to a carlos mencia show last week at FSU. I came up for the homecoming game, and decided to go see the show. Rememeber that tallahassee is in a very liberal county. You have students, typically the most left leaning age group giving a standing ovation to mencia. Mencia is a comedian who put's down PC and promotes self reliance, something you would consider a right wing train of thought, or better yet common sense. Either way the 50,000 person crowd went wild.

this is the guy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlos_mencia

anyway, obviously this isn't conclusive evidence by anymeans, but I do tink it's just another sign in the trend America is taking toward the right

[danzig]

Republicans arent shifting to the left but then they arent shifting into true conserative either they are going into a murky area that isnt really conserativism either. Nor do I think the US is shifting right, what we are seeing now a days imo is the 00s version of left wing's 60s...the most vocal, the most energerize 'group' just happen to be the jesus freaks.