Getting in the black as Pontus

[Siegfriedfr]

Greetings,

Playing EB1.2 +mini mod pack

Recently i started playing Pontus games. I have yet to find a solution to the early game. Playing H/M

I usually start like this:
- merge all units
- take Ankara (2 turns)
- Sinope (2 turns)

Then i'm roughly 10000 in debt and thats where things go awry, because:
1) AS ALWAYS attacks me, even if i carefully avoid any diplomatic contact with their enemies;
2) since AS alwasy attacks me, i do not disband any unit, and my debt gets worse;
3) i tried the "disband everything after initial conquests" way, and of course AS couldnt resist attacking my unprotected cities. i was able to fend of attacks with a stack of FM for a few turns but then a full stack appeared and that was the death of me.

Really don't know how to do this, AS attacks me no matter what, started 10 different games to be sure i wasnt unlucky but no... i'm too much a weak target and the AS always go for me.

If you have any tip

[Brapbrapbap]

Play Medium Medium like it's supposed to be played, specially with some of the harder factions.

The only way you can survive that scenario is by grabbing all of your army, using your initial cash to make as much soldiers as possible and then go on a rampage, trying to conquer everything you can as fast as possible and looting aswell as destroying a lot of buildings.

You'll still be in debt, but after enough victories, it just might go back into positive.


There's a reason why Pontus is considered an "impossible" nation

[Siegfriedfr]

Play Medium Medium like it's supposed to be played, specially with some of the harder factions.

The only way you can survive that scenario is by grabbing all of your army, using your initial cash to make as much soldiers as possible and then go on a rampage, trying to conquer everything you can as fast as possible and looting aswell as destroying a lot of buildings.

You'll still be in debt, but after enough victories, it just might go back into positive.


There's a reason why Pontus is considered an "impossible" nation

Yup tried some more games and the AS behavior seems unavoidable.

Tried also the rampage thing but i go way too deep in debt siegeing all the cities around me (was at -30K and conquered 5 cities)

Gonna try to focus exclusively on AS cities next, taking rebels has nos trategical advantages, altho i fear the ptolemaoi will want to take advantage of my single stack being everywhere and nowhere.

[Anubis88]

Don't attack Ankara... Take Sinope and Trapezous... Then disband as many units as you can and try to build up a bit. Hopefully you will do this in time before the AS attacks. Also, try to conquer Sinope and Trapezous with as little casualties as you can. Don't tuch Ankara yet... Conquer Mazaka first, since Mazaka is a heaven to defend. 2 bridges nearby, where you can build at least 2 forts each, to hold the armies of the AS for a long long time

[MisterFred]

When I beat Pontus on Very Hard I didn't try for historical accuracy or role-playing at all. I just blitzed the crap out of AS from turn one. I disbanded no units and smashed Mazaka, heading west to Ipsos and Sardis (the big prize because its AS' best barracks in Asia Minor and has good mines. Only then did I consider attacking neutrals at all. Once I got Sardis I was still in debt, but my yearly income was positive. Take Trebizond or Ani-Kamah if you want to steal them from the Armenians, and maybe Sinope in a time of peace, but in general let other powers take neutral towns and then poach the towns when they have crappy AI garrisons.

[Faramir D'Andunie]

Some pretty good advince offered so far, not sure there is much to offer.

General rule of any game regarding relations with a faction bordering AS. No matter how much to try, they will attack you. So start your game expecting to be attacked the very next turn. As said your first targets should be Mazaka and Sinope. You can abuse the terain and bridges near it to defend from the coming attacks.

Upon attacking Sinoppe you will be in war with KH. Since you don't share borders once you take it feel free to send a diplomat and buy a nice ceasfire from them, 3-4000 mnai or so. Same with Ptolemies, can't remember with who they start at war with from the rebeling AS "satrapies".

From your starting army, disband all the cavalry from turn 1. Your FMs will do fine. Go for regional barracks first and form a nice cheap army made out of hoplitai, cappadokian axemen, caucausian archers and spears once you can afford it.
You also want to drive AS out of Ipsos and Sardis as soon as you can, the mines will do wonders for your income and its the only regions from which they can draw troops in Mikra Asia.
Oh and perhaps a raid at Antiocheia, plenty of buildings to destroy for cash there.


There is also another alternative to a Pontos game, capture Sinoppe, build a ship and take everyting to Crimea. Sell your capital to Ptolemaioi and focus on a Bosporan Kingdom.

Good luck in your campaign. And remember to change the stats on the Pontic Thorakitai if you wish. 0.13 lethality and an extra 2 defense, they are so not worth it at their current form.

[Siegfriedfr]

Thanks for the advice everyone, was able to capture all of anatolia save the rebel cities and go back in the black, then i had the daunting task to build up, looks very long.

2 things tho:

Upon attacking Sinoppe you will be in war with KH. Since you don't share borders once you take it feel free to send a diplomat and buy a nice ceasfire from them, 3-4000 mnai or so. Same with Ptolemies, can't remember with who they start at war with from the rebeling AS "satrapies".

Everytime i propose cash for a ceasfire, i get the "an end to the war? Lolz" kind of answer...

There is also another alternative to a Pontos game, capture Sinoppe, build a ship and take everyting to Crimea. Sell your capital to Ptolemaioi and focus on a Bosporan Kingdom.

I tried it but taking sinope and building a shipyard/ship requires army disbanding early on to stay in the black, which also means you can't conquer crimea...

[Faramir D'Andunie]

Everytime i propose cash for a ceasfire, i get the "an end to the war? Lolz" kind of answer...

Wierd. As long as I do not share borders with a faction they always agree on a ceasfire.

I don't remember Crimea beeing an issue, just don't try to attack the city. Wait them out.
Remember your major strenght are you FM bodyguard cavalry early on. With a little practice they can win entire battles on their own.

[athanaric]

Everytime i propose cash for a ceasfire, i get the "an end to the war? Lolz" kind of answer...

You've tried the wrong approach. Offer map information. As long as they don't share a border with you, they'll make a counter-proposal, namely a ceasefire. Accept the ceasefire or negotiate (you could demand either map inforation or a small sum of money from them in return, depending on your needs). After you've got the ceasefire, re-establish trade rights.

That said, the people who designed the RTW AI ought to be sent to the GULag.

I tried it but taking sinope and building a shipyard/ship requires army disbanding early on to stay in the black, which also means you can't conquer crimea...

I'm not sure if Sinope lets you build ships. Trapezous has a shipyard right from the start though.

[Ludicus]

[QUOTE=athanaric;7596684]
That said, the people who designed the RTW AI ought to be sent to the GULag.
QUOTE]
Indeed.

[Brapbrapbap]

Kind of funny how the advice to any nation bordering AS always starts with "BLITZ THE AS"

[Unintended BM]

Whenever I used to try and play as Pontus, I would take Sinope and Trapezous and then try and build up, but really, that never works. What will actually work is blitzing the three AS Asia Minor towns, sacking Antioch, and then getting 10k from the Ptolemy for a ceasefire. After that, you could probably get away with taking Pergamon. It's very rich and will definitely boost your economy. Then you just build up for a while and take all the other rebel settlements in Asia Minor whenever possible. Makedonia always builds a full stack of crap units on Lesbos, but I've never actually had them attack me, which is odd, but I'd be prepared for that still.

[Brapbrapbap]

Also, force diplomacy is almost mandatory in some situations.


"Jesus christ you Iberian lunatics, you only have two poor and wasted provinces left. Accept my 10k and trade rights and CEASEFIRE."


The sad thing is, even with forced diplomacy, the AI will still try to attack you a few turns later. This AI is hilariously poor

[Faramir D'Andunie]

Also, force diplomacy is almost mandatory in some situations.


"Jesus christ you Iberian lunatics, you only have two poor and wasted provinces left. Accept my 10k and trade rights and CEASEFIRE."


The sad thing is, even with forced diplomacy, the AI will still try to attack you a few turns later. This AI is hilariously poor

Reason why I would also support the proposed solution of creating a buffer allied state between you and said state. Not a perfect solution for sure. A lot of time your buffer zones will be overun and you may have to reconquer them, turn em over and sign another ceasfire. Still this can actually give you ceasfires lasting at least 10 years or more.

use the move_character cheat, and teleport the AS armies to their other fronts.

Most of the time the AI seems unable to use those armies and they will remain frozen in their teleported place for a very long time. Plus it won't stop the faction from spamming even more.

[Ludicus]

@ Faramir D'Andunie, Brapbrapbap,MisterFred

Thank you

Reason why I would also support the proposed solution of creating a buffer allied state between you and said state. Not a perfect solution for sure. A lot of time your buffer zones will be overun and you may have to reconquer them, turn em over and sign another ceasfire. Still this can actually give you ceasfires lasting at least 10 years or more

Good idea

[sinner]

use the move_character cheat, and teleport the AS armies to their other fronts.