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Thread: Bosnian Church & Bosnia Discussions (all off topic posts will be deleted and their authors court-martialed)

  1. #141
    clandestino's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Bosnian Church - Crkva Bosanska (matko says: all off topic posts will be deleted and their authors court-martialed)

    It was heretical because it wasnt catholic or orthodox... The only option left is herecy...
    That's political determination of heresy not the dogmatical and theological, as I said someone could be perfectly catholic or orthodox and still declared heretical because of the political reasons by his political adversary. By definition heretic is someone that doesn't respects the established dogmata of the church, that would mean that Bosnian church didn't respect dogmata of catholic and orthodox church, but researching original documents of bosnian church such as '' Hvalov rukopis '' scholars didn't find nothing heretical in it, in fact it was perfectly orthodox ( not Orthodox in the sense of the denomination, but orthodox as in non-heretical, although many things inside it are close to Orthodox customs).
    Because why would a Bosnian Djed call the catholic episkop (which was removed from Bosnia) "the false episkop" and himself the "true one"? "Pravi episkop crkve bosanske".
    And I believe that this was main point of disscord between Rome and Bosnian church, would the Bosnian bishop be subordinated to the pope or will it be independent. Even in the accepting of catholicism of ban Kulin in 1203. the first point of their '' conversion '' was that they recognize roman church as the head of all chritianity. As for the religion I don't think it was much different from both catholic and orthodox, maybe it was most similar to the christianity before the split of the churches in 1054. when all christians were simply christians, not orthodox or catholic.
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  2. #142

    Default Re: Bosnian Church - Crkva Bosanska (matko says: all off topic posts will be deleted and their authors court-martialed)

    As I promised I read something about the Bosnian church from the American historian of the Michigan university:"John VA Fine."

    I got this book from the library and I am sure that all serious libraries have this book. It is called:"The late medieval balkans". About 700 pages and almost all the factions from this mod are discussed: Bulgaria, Serbia, Hungary, Bosnia, Turks etc.

    So here are the important things from this book concerning the Bosnian Church:

    page 487 - balkans in the Early fifteenth century

    ... Bosnia was studded with imposing stone fortresses. Certian of the palaces (e.g. the king's at Bobovac) were not only impressive arhitecurally, but were also decorated with excellent stone reliefs and frescoes. Bosnia had also many medieval churches. In general they were small and not comparefavorable with handsome catholic churches along the coast or the orthodox monastry churches in near-by serbia. That Bosnian patrons invested less in their churches probably reflects the indiference of the Bosnian nobles to formal relligion. It is often stated that the Bosnian Church rejected church buildings, thus the ruined church in found in Bosnia must be Catholic or Orthodox. This statement almost certainly is false. We know Gost Radin left money in his will to build a chucrh. Furthermore, church ruines occur beside medieval cementries that contain tombstone belonging to Bosnian Church clerics, and ruined churches show up in villages where Bosnian Church hizas are mentioned in medieval sources. Thus it is very possible that some, and possibly even many, of these medieval churches were Bosnian Church buildings.
    more is coming
    Last edited by Bosnian_King; July 09, 2010 at 08:04 AM.
    kada se bjehmo svadili, tada nas Stjepan Rajkovic umiri i da nam nas grad Bobovac, a neda ga dati Ugrom.

    "And when we were in a quarrel between each other; Stijepan Rajkovic calmed us down. And we entrusted our capital of Bobovac to him after which he defended it against the Hungarians (King Tvrtko I Kotromanic 1366.)"

  3. #143

    Default Re: Bosnian Church - Crkva Bosanska (matko says: all off topic posts will be deleted and their authors court-martialed)

    page 481:

    Throughout the history, the Bosnian Church retained both its more or less Catholic ideology --though it used the Slavic language - and its monastic charakter. Its clergy (except for a few resident at royal or aristocratic courts) resided in monastries called hize (sing. hiza, meaning house). The clergymen bore the title of christians (krstjani)- usually rendered as Patareni in Ragusan Latin language sources. The head of a monastry (hiza) was often called a gost. The djed and his council of twelve strojnici, chiefly composed of gosts, provided what overall supervision there was. Their monastries were not found throughout Bosnia but were clustered in the centre of the state, extending in the east to the Drina and south towards and beyon the Neretva river with a few in the land of the Kosaca family what is now called Hercegovina. Some of their monastries served as hotels for travellers and were used by Ragusan merchants...
    Last edited by Bosnian_King; July 09, 2010 at 08:18 AM.
    kada se bjehmo svadili, tada nas Stjepan Rajkovic umiri i da nam nas grad Bobovac, a neda ga dati Ugrom.

    "And when we were in a quarrel between each other; Stijepan Rajkovic calmed us down. And we entrusted our capital of Bobovac to him after which he defended it against the Hungarians (King Tvrtko I Kotromanic 1366.)"

  4. #144

    Default Re: Bosnian Church - Crkva Bosanska (matko says: all off topic posts will be deleted and their authors court-martialed)

    If somebody can understand ...there was (krstjani),but in a very,very small number" and they have disappeared completely after the Ottoman conquest of Bosnia.
    They have been a small sect without "Church or Monastry"........maybe they used the Serbian or Croatian churchs or monastry,but no exist evidence for that.They simply not have Churchs!

    And last,they are probably the origin from Bogomils...many bogomils settled Bosnia before the krstjani exist.
    Last edited by Baron Vlad Felix; July 10, 2010 at 07:20 AM.

  5. #145

    Default Re: Bosnian Church - Crkva Bosanska (matko says: all off topic posts will be deleted and their authors court-martialed)

    Hi, I was wondering if the Hvalov Zbornik has been translated? If so, it would be of help to me. Thanks.

  6. #146
    phoenix[illusion]'s Avatar Palman Bracht
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    Default Re: Bosnian Church - Crkva Bosanska (matko says: all off topic posts will be deleted and their authors court-martialed)

    probably is, but you won't find it on internet
    long time no see, but still twc drug kickin'
    check out Tsardoms: Total War!
    Under patronage of respectable Annaeus
    Patron of honorable Giacomo Colonna


  7. #147

    Default Re: Bosnian Church - Crkva Bosanska (matko says: all off topic posts will be deleted and their authors court-martialed)

    Do you know where I could find it? is the whole document on the internet also?

  8. #148
    phoenix[illusion]'s Avatar Palman Bracht
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    Default Re: Bosnian Church - Crkva Bosanska (matko says: all off topic posts will be deleted and their authors court-martialed)

    i don't think you will find it on internet, you can get to translation if you're in some history/literature/linguistics research circle. book with translation is not widespread, cause of it's thematic. it's mostly religious book, just christian stuff, so it's useless for history research, but priceless for it's miniatures, styles, linguistics etc...

    speaking about linguistics, many of bosnian documents are very readable, 50% of words are still same, other have similar roots, so it's quite close to language we speak, much closer than english to old english, you can check on wiki

    U ime o(t)ca i s(i)na i s(ve)toga d(u)ha. A sie se knjige napisaše ot ruki Hvala kr’stijanina na počtenie (u znak poštovanja) slavnomu g(ospo)d(i)nu Hr’voju, her’cegu spljet’skomu (splitskom) i knezu od Dolj’njih krai (Donjih krajeva) (i) inim’ mnogim’ zemljam’.
    Tim’že (Zato) molju vi, bratie, kto budu pročitati sie pismo, ošte (ako) česo (što) ne umil’ budu s’vr’šiti v’ siem’ pisanii, prostite, a čtušte (čitajući) pominjajte (spominjite) toga komu se pisaše, a pisara toliko koliko je vam’ razumiti ot toga meštar’stva (majstorstva).
    A pisaše se i dovr’šiše v’ ljeto rožd’stva (rođenja) H(ri)s(to)va 1404. ljeto, v’ dni episkup’stva i nastavnika i s’vršitelja cr’kvi bosan’skoj g(ospo)d(i)na djeda Radomera.
    long time no see, but still twc drug kickin'
    check out Tsardoms: Total War!
    Under patronage of respectable Annaeus
    Patron of honorable Giacomo Colonna


  9. #149

    Default Re: Bosnian Church - Crkva Bosanska (matko says: all off topic posts will be deleted and their authors court-martialed)

    They are? Oh thank you. I didn't know it was so similar - because it's in bosancica which is hard for me to read. How many of the miniatures are still available?

  10. #150

    Default Re: Bosnian Church - Crkva Bosanska (matko says: all off topic posts will be deleted and their authors court-martialed)

    Iscitavajuci tematiku Bosanskih krstjana, dosao sam do zakljucka da su oni po najvise zamjerili istocnoj i zapadnoj crkvi, a sto je relevantno za ovu tematiku:
    Odbijali su Kipove i slike (ikone) i krst zbog cega su ih i proklinjali i srpski sinodi.
    Navodi se da su krscane tih crkava smatrali idolopoklonicima zbog svetkovanja tih simbola i predmeta te zbog svetkovanja svetaca(ljudi kao zastitnika i posrednika)
    Navodi se da su zamjerali gradnju gordih Crkava i bogomolja, sa debelim zidovima, sto ukazuje da su crkve ("Hize") krstjana Bosanskih bile male skromne gradjevine, obicne konstrukcije, i nikako debelo zidane kamene gradjevine!
    Po mom misljenju nece pogrijesiti dizajneri ako iskoriste autohtonu Bosansku dzamiju "drveniju" koja se nalazi svuda po Bosni i samo tu i nigdje drugo u svijetu - neka to bude slika Bosanske crkve stim da treba izbrisati drveni minaret koji je dodan elemenat dolaskom islama! Crkve krstjana Bosanskih su transformirane u dzamije drvenije i kao takve u tradiciji bosanskih muslimana i nigdje drugo u svijetu se i danas grade!



    roughly translated with google translate....

    Bosnian Christians reading the topic , I came to the conclusion that they are resented by most Eastern and Western churches, and which is relevant to this topic:
    They refused to statues and pictures ( icons ) and the cross , which is why they were cursed and the Serbian Synod .
    It is alleged that the Christians of these churches considered idolaters due observance of these symbols and objects , and the observance of saints ( men as protectors and intermediaries )
    It is said that criticized the construction of mighty Churches and places of worship , with thick walls , which indicates that the church ( " houses," ) krstjans Bosanskih were small modest buildings , ordinary construction , and not thick masonry stone buildings !
    In my opinion, the designers will not go wrong if you take advantage of indigenous Bosnian mosque " wooden ", located all over Bosnia and only there and nowhere else in the world - let it be a picture of Bosnian Church stim you should delete wooden minaret was added element of the advent of Islam ! Church krstjans Bosanskih were transformed into mosques Drvenija and as such the tradition of Bosnian Muslims and nowhere else in the world today are building !


    please keep your posts in english otherwise they will be deleted...
    SpyrosM91
    Last edited by SpyrosM91; February 06, 2014 at 09:25 PM.

  11. #151
    Wallachian's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: Bosnian Church - Crkva Bosanska (matko says: all off topic posts will be deleted and their authors court-martialed)

    Sorry please speak english or your post will be deleted. Forum rules.
    Last edited by Wallachian; February 05, 2014 at 06:46 PM.

  12. #152

    Default Re: Bosnian Church - Crkva Bosanska (matko says: all off topic posts will be deleted and their authors court-martialed)

    I logged me here the last time 4 years ago. Since then nothing has happened
    Unfortunately, I see still fanatics who support the Serb and Croat nationalists
    We live in the 21st century and the Bosnia / Bosniaks question has been answered a long time.

    Today we know that Bosnia is older than Serbia and Croatia.
    The Bosniaks are autochthonous in the Balkans.
    The Bosnian language has spread throughout the Balkans.
    I do not understand why the Serbs and Croats still telling each other lies stories?
    Neither the former nor the latter can rebut the

    Accepted! You are Slavic immigrants and the Bosniaks are autochthonous in Bosnia and the Balkans
    Dr. Cerić: Mi nikada nećemo biti prihvaćeni ni kod zapada ni kod istoka, zato što je Bosna zemlja heretika i sto su Bošnjaci potomci Ilira. Živimo pod pritiskom susjeda i Taoci smo njihovih laži.

    (Dr. Ceric: We will never be accepted either in the west or on the east, because Bosnia is a land of heretics and that the Bosniaks are the descendants of the Illyians. We live under pressure
    between our neighbors and we are the hostages of their lies)


  13. #153
    +Marius+'s Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Bosnian Church - Crkva Bosanska (matko says: all off topic posts will be deleted and their authors court-martialed)

    Quote Originally Posted by SipahiBiH View Post
    Today we know that Bosnia is older than Serbia and Croatia.
    Nobody mentions Bosnians until the 12th century.

    End of story.

  14. #154

    Default Re: Bosnian Church - Crkva Bosanska (matko says: all off topic posts will be deleted and their authors court-martialed)

    No only ultrabosniak nationalism claims that!Bosnia is first mentioned in the 12. century while serbia and croatia are mentioned in the 7. century u need to read forign historyans here is N.Malcolm he is the bosniak frendliest historyan listen to him

    here is a wery good encyklopedia,the article is writen by malcolm!!
    http://www.britannica.com/place/Bosn...-life#toc42680

    .....
    Slavs began to settle in this territory during the 6th century. A second wave of Slavs in the 7th century included two powerful tribes, the Croats and the Serbs: Croats probably covered most of central, western, and northern Bosnia, while Serbs extended into the Drina River valley and modern Herzegovina. ....
    .................


    THERE ARE BOSNIAN MOSLEM HISTORYANS WHO CLAIM THAT BOGUMILS(SOCALED) WERE MORE SIMILAR TO ISLAM THAN CHRISTIANITY!!!

    ......
    Beginning in the mid-19th century, many historians argued that the Bosnian church had adopted the extreme dualist heresy of the Bulgarian Bogomils. Evidence for this view came from the papal denunciations of the Bosnians, which sometimes accused them of Manichaeism, the dualist theology on which Bogomil beliefs were based. In addition, Italian and Dalmatian sources referred to the Bosnians as “Patarins,” a term used in Italy for a range of heretics including the Cathari, whose beliefs were linked to Bogomilism. However, later scholarship suggested that the authors of those denunciations had little or no knowledge of the situation inside Bosnia and that confusion may have been caused by the existence of genuine dualist heretics on the Dalmatian coast. Furthermore, the surviving evidence of the religious practices of the Bosnian church shows that its members accepted many things that Bogomils fiercely rejected, such as the sign of the cross, the Old Testament, the mass, the use of church buildings, and the drinking of wine. The Bosnian church should thus be considered an essentially nonheretical branch of the Roman Catholic Church, based in monastic houses in which some Eastern Orthodox practices also were observed...............


    Here u got another view
    http://www.encyclopedia.com/topic/Bosnia_and_Herzegovina.aspx

    .......Slavic settlers were joined in the 7th century ad by Croatian and Serbian tribes invited by Byzantine Emperor Heraclius to help him fight the Avars. The area of Bosnia and Herzegovina became the meeting ground of Croats (western area) and Serbs (eastern area). As medieval Bulgarians, Croatians, and Serbians developed their first states, Bosnia became a battleground among them and the Byzantine Empire. Christianization of the area was completed by the 9th century, when most of the Bosnian area came under the influence of Rome and Croats became Catholic, while most Serbs fell under the influence of the Byzantine Empire and became Eastern Orthodox.
    The Bosnian area between the 9th and 11th centuries was essentially under Croatian influence when not conquered by Bulgarians, Serbs, or Byzantium. After Hungary and Croatia effected their royal union in ad 1102, Hungary took over Bosnia and the Dalmatian cities in 1136. Bosnia was then ruled by Croatian "Bans" under joint Hungarian-Croatian sovereignty. When the soldiers supplied by Ban Borić (r.11501167) to the Hungarian Army were defeated by Byzantium in 1167 at Zemun, Bosnia came under Byzantine rule. Hungary renewed its claim to Bosnia in 1185, during Ban Kulin's reign (11801204), which was marked by his independence from Hungary, partly due to the inaccessibility of its mountainous terrain.
    ...........
    The mass conversion of Bosnian Christians to Islam, a rather unique phenomenon in European history, is explained by two schools of thought. The traditional view recognizes the existence of a strong Bogomil heresy of dualism and social protest. These Bosnian Christians, having been persecuted by both Catholic and Orthodox Churches and rulers, welcomed the Ottomans and easily converted in order to preserve their land holdings. In doing so, they became trusted Ottoman soldiers and administrators. The other school of thought denies the existence of a strong and influential Bogomil heresy, but defines the Bosnian Christian church as a nativistic, anti-Hungarian, loosely organized religion with a Catholic theological background and simple, peasant-based practices supported by its monastic order. The rulers/kings of Bosnia were Catholic (with the single exception of Ostoja) and very tolerant of the Orthodox and so-called Bosnian religions. However, these religious organizations had very few priests and monks, and therefore were not very strong. The Bosnian Church was practically eliminated in 1459 through conversions to official Catholicism, or the forced exile of its leadership. Thus, by the time of the Turkish conquest, the Bosnian Church had ceased to exist and the allure of privileged status under the Ottomans was too strong for many to resist.
    ...........

    Historically both Croats and Serbs have competed for control over Bosnia. The Croats, who had included Bosnia in their medieval kingdom, could not effectively continue their rule once joined with the more powerful Hungarians in their royal union. The Serbs, on the other hand, were assisted by Hungary in their expansion at the expense of the Byzantine Empire. Later, they also received Hungarian support in their resistance to Turkish inroads and therefore could not invest their energies in Bosnia, in their view a "Hungarian" territory. Thus Bosnia was able to assert its own autonomy and individuality, but did not evolve into a separate nation.
    .............
    The population of Bosnia and Herzegovina was divided into three major religious-ethnic groups: Croatian Catholics, Serbian Orthodox, and Bosnian Muslims. With the disappearance of the Bosnian Church just before the Ottoman occupation in 1463, most Bosnians were Croatian and Catholic, with a Serbian Orthodox population concentrated inEastern Herzegovina and along the Drina River frontier with Serbia.
    ...................................

    Now we actualy dont know much about that long forgoten time bu this is what we know for sure,lingustics!!!!!


    You se that yellow thing??? it is noncroatian dialects!!! in east herzegovina and along Drina!!!!
    Ewer heard of bans??? do u know any slavs who have banates except croats???

  15. #155

    Default Re: Bosnian Church - Crkva Bosanska (matko says: all off topic posts will be deleted and their authors court-martialed)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahmed-pasa Kosaca View Post
    Iscitavajuci tematiku Bosanskih krstjana, dosao sam do zakljucka da su oni po najvise zamjerili istocnoj i zapadnoj crkvi, a sto je relevantno za ovu tematiku:
    Odbijali su Kipove i slike (ikone) i krst zbog cega su ih i proklinjali i srpski sinodi.
    Navodi se da su krscane tih crkava smatrali idolopoklonicima zbog svetkovanja tih simbola i predmeta te zbog svetkovanja svetaca(ljudi kao zastitnika i posrednika)
    Navodi se da su zamjerali gradnju gordih Crkava i bogomolja, sa debelim zidovima, sto ukazuje da su crkve ("Hize") krstjana Bosanskih bile male skromne gradjevine, obicne konstrukcije, i nikako debelo zidane kamene gradjevine!
    Po mom misljenju nece pogrijesiti dizajneri ako iskoriste autohtonu Bosansku dzamiju "drveniju" koja se nalazi svuda po Bosni i samo tu i nigdje drugo u svijetu - neka to bude slika Bosanske crkve stim da treba izbrisati drveni minaret koji je dodan elemenat dolaskom islama! Crkve krstjana Bosanskih su transformirane u dzamije drvenije i kao takve u tradiciji bosanskih muslimana i nigdje drugo u svijetu se i danas grade!



    roughly translated with google translate....

    Bosnian Christians reading the topic , I came to the conclusion that they are resented by most Eastern and Western churches, and which is relevant to this topic:
    They refused to statues and pictures ( icons ) and the cross , which is why they were cursed and the Serbian Synod .
    It is alleged that the Christians of these churches considered idolaters due observance of these symbols and objects , and the observance of saints ( men as protectors and intermediaries )
    It is said that criticized the construction of mighty Churches and places of worship , with thick walls , which indicates that the church ( " houses," ) krstjans Bosanskih were small modest buildings , ordinary construction , and not thick masonry stone buildings !
    In my opinion, the designers will not go wrong if you take advantage of indigenous Bosnian mosque " wooden ", located all over Bosnia and only there and nowhere else in the world - let it be a picture of Bosnian Church stim you should delete wooden minaret was added element of the advent of Islam ! Church krstjans Bosanskih were transformed into mosques Drvenija and as such the tradition of Bosnian Muslims and nowhere else in the world today are building !


    please keep your posts in english otherwise they will be deleted...
    SpyrosM91
    You know there is this bosniak historyan who wrote: ...couse of the violente christianization of the krstjani......


    krstjani is archaic for krschani(krščani) christians in slavic!!! LOL LOL bosnian church members calledthemself krstjani(christians)
    .....forceful christianization....... LOL LOL LOL of the christians!!!

  16. #156

    Default Re: Bosnian Church - Crkva Bosanska (matko says: all off topic posts will be deleted and their authors court-martialed)

    Quote Originally Posted by phoenix[illusion] View Post
    i don't think you will find it on internet, you can get to translation if you're in some history/literature/linguistics research circle. book with translation is not widespread, cause of it's thematic. it's mostly religious book, just christian stuff, so it's useless for history research, but priceless for it's miniatures, styles, linguistics etc...

    speaking about linguistics, many of bosnian documents are very readable, 50% of words are still same, other have similar roots, so it's quite close to language we speak, much closer than english to old english, you can check on wiki

    U ime o(t)ca i s(i)na i s(ve)toga d(u)ha. A sie se knjige napisaše ot ruki Hvala kr’stijanina na počtenie (u znak poštovanja) slavnomu g(ospo)d(i)nu Hr’voju, her’cegu spljet’skomu (splitskom) i knezu od Dolj’njih krai (Donjih krajeva) (i) inim’ mnogim’ zemljam’.
    Tim’že (Zato) molju vi, bratie, kto budu pročitati sie pismo, ošte (ako) česo (što) ne umil’ budu s’vr’šiti v’ siem’ pisanii, prostite, a čtušte (čitajući) pominjajte (spominjite) toga komu se pisaše, a pisara toliko koliko je vam’ razumiti ot toga meštar’stva (majstorstva).
    A pisaše se i dovr’šiše v’ ljeto rožd’stva (rođenja) H(ri)s(to)va 1404. ljeto, v’ dni episkup’stva i nastavnika i s’vršitelja cr’kvi bosan’skoj g(ospo)d(i)na djeda Radomera.
    it is one and the same language,old english is more related to german then it is related to modern english

  17. #157

    Default Re: Tsardoms Total War - General Discussion & Progress

    Hello Everyone,

    Why is the Bosnian Kingdom threat closed?
    I found a 3D Model of the Bosnian medieval capital of Bobovac, based on true excavations of Andjelic and others in the 70ties:


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGaiRykVPFo

    We are almost 10 years later....
    The game is not finished yet.
    Last edited by Bosnian_King; January 27, 2017 at 05:40 PM.
    kada se bjehmo svadili, tada nas Stjepan Rajkovic umiri i da nam nas grad Bobovac, a neda ga dati Ugrom.

    "And when we were in a quarrel between each other; Stijepan Rajkovic calmed us down. And we entrusted our capital of Bobovac to him after which he defended it against the Hungarians (King Tvrtko I Kotromanic 1366.)"

  18. #158

    Default Re: TSARDOMS TOTAL WAR - BATTLE BETA RELEASE

    Wallachian,

    Hope this will help. Some photos from Museums about the Bosnian medieval weaponry. Here from the Belgrade Museum:



    From Bosian Gradiska excavations:



    ht
    kada se bjehmo svadili, tada nas Stjepan Rajkovic umiri i da nam nas grad Bobovac, a neda ga dati Ugrom.

    "And when we were in a quarrel between each other; Stijepan Rajkovic calmed us down. And we entrusted our capital of Bobovac to him after which he defended it against the Hungarians (King Tvrtko I Kotromanic 1366.)"

  19. #159

    Default Re: TSARDOMS TOTAL WAR - BATTLE BETA RELEASE

    There are a lot of pictures from Bosnian museums of heavy armory as found in Bosnia. Some of them I placed on that first thread years ago. I also scanned books of weapons I can remember.
    kada se bjehmo svadili, tada nas Stjepan Rajkovic umiri i da nam nas grad Bobovac, a neda ga dati Ugrom.

    "And when we were in a quarrel between each other; Stijepan Rajkovic calmed us down. And we entrusted our capital of Bobovac to him after which he defended it against the Hungarians (King Tvrtko I Kotromanic 1366.)"

  20. #160
    +Marius+'s Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: TSARDOMS TOTAL WAR - BATTLE BETA RELEASE

    Quote Originally Posted by Bosnian_King View Post
    Can someone explain to me why this crown was taken for the Bosnian banner? This crown was never the banner of the medieval Bosnian Kingdom.
    You are confusing the countries coat of arms with the coat of arms of the ruling family.

    The lilies are the CoA of the Kotromanic family yes, but after the kingdom was formed, they adopted the crown as the kingdoms insignia;

    http://www.most.ba/104/tvrtko_kotromanic.gif

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...evi%C4%87a.jpg

    https://img.ma-shops.com/zufahl/pic/...7_combined.jpg

    http://media1.allnumis.com/1661_64355710a97a5c2L.jpg

    https://www.numisbids.com/sales/host...image00789.jpg



    http://wappenwiki.org/index.php/File...Kotromanic.svg

    http://wappenwiki.org/index.php/File...Kotromanic.svg

    http://wappenwiki.org/index.php/File...mas_Ostoja.svg

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