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Thread: Bosnian Church & Bosnia Discussions (all off topic posts will be deleted and their authors court-martialed)

  1. #41
    Hrobatos's Avatar Tribunus
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    Default Re: Bosnian Church - Crkva Bosanska

    Quote Originally Posted by Baron Vlad Felix View Post
    Ok,I really do not know if kritjani have church, because I did not see anywhere evidence......I know kritjani exist in bosna, there are graves and records about them.But Bosnian Church and the Bosnian people did not exist at that time(Bosnia was only name of the territory), they were Serbs, Croats and heretic religious refugees(bogomili,katari..) from south balkan.......
    krstjani are far different than bogumili and katars, just like Bosnian_Queen said, there are bunch of proofs of different perception of world than bogumils and katars had

  2. #42

    Default Re: Bosnian Church - Crkva Bosanska

    Quote Originally Posted by Baron Vlad Felix View Post
    Ok,I really do not know if kritjani have church, because I did not see anywhere evidence......I know kritjani exist in bosna, there are graves and records about them.But Bosnian Church and the Bosnian people did not exist at that time(Bosnia was only name of the territory), they were Serbs, Croats and heretic religious refugees(bogomili,katari..) from south balkan.......
    Actually all the bosnian kings mention only Bosnians in Bosnia during the middle ages. They use the old term "Bosnjanin" or Dobri Bosnjanin (noble bosnjanin) And when they talk about serbs and Croats they talk about them as another nation:"The Croats and we Bosnians" or "And Hrvoje Vukicic Hrvatinic came to me with his Croats and about this noble Bosnians can testify."

    So I think you are missing the point about but I will not see it as an insult because I think that you do not mean it bad; you just don't know.

    Let's just not go off topic! The topic is about the church!
    kada se bjehmo svadili, tada nas Stjepan Rajkovic umiri i da nam nas grad Bobovac, a neda ga dati Ugrom.

    "And when we were in a quarrel between each other; Stijepan Rajkovic calmed us down. And we entrusted our capital of Bobovac to him after which he defended it against the Hungarians (King Tvrtko I Kotromanic 1366.)"

  3. #43
    phoenix[illusion]'s Avatar Palman Bracht
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    Default Re: Bosnian Church - Crkva Bosanska

    ok, no more offtopic. anyways, i'm still for the simple stone buildings, but there's no any evidence.
    i'm more interesting in symbols, did the use cross? as far as i know, and read, they didn't, because they hated to pray to the cross on which was Jesus Christ crucified. it was "satanic" from their side of faith.
    Last edited by phoenix[illusion]; June 25, 2010 at 01:08 PM.
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  4. #44

    Default Re: Bosnian Church - Crkva Bosanska

    Quote Originally Posted by phoenix[illusion] View Post
    ok, no more offtopic. anyways, i'm still for the simple stone buildings, but there's no any evidence.
    i'm more interesting in symbols, did the use cross?
    I don't know. I know that the Pope Inocencije wrote:

    "And may the Bosnian Djed bi doomed together with all the kscani who are refusing to pray towards the holy cross and the holy simbols."

    So from this sentence we can conclude that they did not. But more research is needed I think. I can do some research in the holidays.
    kada se bjehmo svadili, tada nas Stjepan Rajkovic umiri i da nam nas grad Bobovac, a neda ga dati Ugrom.

    "And when we were in a quarrel between each other; Stijepan Rajkovic calmed us down. And we entrusted our capital of Bobovac to him after which he defended it against the Hungarians (King Tvrtko I Kotromanic 1366.)"

  5. #45
    phoenix[illusion]'s Avatar Palman Bracht
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    Default Re: Bosnian Church - Crkva Bosanska

    Quote Originally Posted by Bosnian_King View Post
    I don't know. I know that the Pope Inocencije wrote:

    "And may the Bosnian Djed bi doomed together with all the kscani who are refusing to pray towards the holy cross and the holy simbols."

    So from this sentence we can conclude that they did not. But more research is needed I think. I can do some research in the holidays.
    i've updated my last post
    well, also, i know that they didn't like icons too, which are used in orthodox churches. they consider icons as idols, and God in bible once said "do not have any idols, do not pray to them... i'm your only God"
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  6. #46

    Default Re: Bosnian Church - Crkva Bosanska

    Quote Originally Posted by Bosnian_King View Post
    I don't know. I know that the Pope Inocencije wrote:

    "And may the Bosnian Djed bi doomed together with all the kscani who are refusing to pray towards the holy cross and the holy simbols."

    So from this sentence we can conclude that they did not. But more research is needed I think. I can do some research in the holidays.


    Then be useful and find somethng that we can use as a symbol for ths religion.

    TTW GRANDMASTER

  7. #47
    phoenix[illusion]'s Avatar Palman Bracht
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    Default Re: Bosnian Church - Crkva Bosanska

    haha, i've found swastika




    anyways, all motives from stecci. there are swastikas, crosses, greek crosses (like +)



    long time no see, but still twc drug kickin'
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  8. #48

    Default Re: Bosnian Church - Crkva Bosanska

    Quote Originally Posted by Hrobatos View Post
    krstjani are far different than bogumili and katars, just like Bosnian_Queen said, there are bunch of proofs of different perception of world than bogumils and katars had
    The Bogimils, a Christian Church, were expelled from Serbia by the Nemanjić, so they settled and populated Bosnia, founding a unique Bosnian Church that spread and gained popularity during under Kulin's reign. The Dalmatian King of Zeta or Doclea Vukan Nemanjić reported the Ban to the Pope on January 8, 1199 for heresy, threatening retribution. It appears that Kulin Ban and his wife, as well as his sister - the widow of Prince Miroslav - abandoned Roman Catholicism in favor of Bogumilism together with ten thousand of their Christian subjects. Kulin also gave protection to the banished heretics from Split and Trogir - which Vukan reported to the Pope. The Pope wrote to King Emeric of Hungary to make Kulin prosecute the Bogumils or depose him.

    So before the kristjani were Bogumils.

    @Bosnian_King

    "Bosona" (Βοσωνα)-Bosnia(is described as "a župa of Serbia" (χοριον) under that name begins is mention of the 958(as a region)....Bosna was controled Serbian and Croatian principality,before nine centuries and Bosnian (regional ) name!!

    Does this mean that the Serbs and Croats become Bosnjaci?
    Last edited by Baron Vlad Felix; June 25, 2010 at 01:51 PM.

  9. #49

    Default Re: Bosnian Church - Crkva Bosanska

    Quote Originally Posted by Baron Vlad Felix View Post
    Does this mean that the Serbs and Croats become Bosnjaci?
    Yes it does, but Bosnian_King will say that its not true... Just dont go there...

  10. #50
    Matthæus's Avatar Knez Bribirski
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    Default Re: Bosnian Church - Crkva Bosanska

    Quote Originally Posted by Bosnian_King View Post
    Yes there is evidence. There is also clear evidence that such churches existed at the capital Bobovac because they were mentioned. Those churches were mentioned more than 50 times by the bosnian state documents.
    this is very logical.

    well kings had at least pretend to be catholic (we can't say what was their personal opinion - well except for last 2 which were strict Catholics). If king was officially declared as "Krstjan" it would mean serous problems with the Pope and rest of Catholic Europe and would result in crusade. So it was a necessity.

    And since kings were "officially Catholic" they had to have a place to pray - a chapel. every castle in christian Europe has one. so this was also a necessity. but if king was personally a convinced "Krstjan" then he did not spend much time there.

    anyway compare Bosnia to Serbia or Croatia. in Croatia and Serbia there are much more remains of medieval churches...
    clearly building big and representative churches was not a priority for "Krstjans". of course they had a place to pray, but not big representative buildings.

    or am i wrong ? find me some archeological evidence of big churches in Bosnia. or monasteries (not Catholic or Orthodox) ?

    Quote Originally Posted by phoenix[illusion] View Post
    haha, i've found swastika

    of course that if from "Handjar" division
    Last edited by Matthæus; June 25, 2010 at 01:59 PM.

  11. #51

    Default Re: Bosnian Church - Crkva Bosanska

    Quote Originally Posted by matko View Post



    of course that if from "Handjar" division
    "Handjar"-knights
    .....

  12. #52

    Default Re: Bosnian Church - Crkva Bosanska

    ing stop already... We have one truth, and he has the other one... We will never think like him, and he will never think like us and that is why we should stop arquing

  13. #53
    Matthæus's Avatar Knez Bribirski
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    Default Re: Bosnian Church - Crkva Bosanska

    another wave of deleting off topic posts will follow ....

  14. #54
    phoenix[illusion]'s Avatar Palman Bracht
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    Default Re: Bosnian Church - Crkva Bosanska

    anyways, i still suggest any of these symbols from stecci

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    long time no see, but still twc drug kickin'
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  15. #55
    Matthæus's Avatar Knez Bribirski
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    Default Re: Bosnian Church - Crkva Bosanska

    Quote Originally Posted by phoenix[illusion] View Post
    anyways, i still suggest any of these symbols from stecci

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    well we still have to choose one

    PS
    does someone have serious intention to go and read book or two about the topic ?
    otherwise this is pointless, internet sources are no good, and i don't believe in "hearsay" arguments.

  16. #56
    phoenix[illusion]'s Avatar Palman Bracht
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    Default Re: Bosnian Church - Crkva Bosanska

    Quote Originally Posted by matko View Post
    well we still have to choose one

    PS
    does someone have serious intention to go and read book or two about the topic ?
    otherwise this is pointless, internet sources are no good, and i don't believe in "hearsay" arguments.
    well, reading a book would not help so much. i'm skeptic in most of the books, cause they don't give any information
    anyways, i have one book on cyrilic... i'll see what can i find
    long time no see, but still twc drug kickin'
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  17. #57

    Default Re: Bosnian Church - Crkva Bosanska

    Quote Originally Posted by matko View Post
    well we still have to choose one

    PS
    does someone have serious intention to go and read book or two about the topic ?
    otherwise this is pointless, internet sources are no good, and i don't believe in "hearsay" arguments.
    I got an intention but after my exams in the holidays. So I don't know if you can wait for 4 weeks?
    kada se bjehmo svadili, tada nas Stjepan Rajkovic umiri i da nam nas grad Bobovac, a neda ga dati Ugrom.

    "And when we were in a quarrel between each other; Stijepan Rajkovic calmed us down. And we entrusted our capital of Bobovac to him after which he defended it against the Hungarians (King Tvrtko I Kotromanic 1366.)"

  18. #58

    Default Re: Bosnian Church - Crkva Bosanska (matko says: all off topic posts will be deleted and their authors court-martialed)

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 






    [IMG]http://api.ning.com/files/krKiIgiwQwkV2RNm*yfFpyE*fXIiNnJcyYHLMOO1qd4CS56DOFlGKa*OgVDVu4jEuMegg16uhnlisv8Kj862lydsP7RtfMF9/stecak_9.jpg[/IMG]



    (matko says: all off topic posts will be deleted and their authors court-martialed)

  19. #59
    Matthæus's Avatar Knez Bribirski
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    Default Re: Bosnian Church - Crkva Bosanska

    Quote Originally Posted by Bosnian_King View Post
    I got an intention but after my exams in the holidays. So I don't know if you can wait for 4 weeks?
    we cant wait.
    actually i might read something next month...

    Quote Originally Posted by phoenix[illusion] View Post
    well, reading a book would not help so much. i'm skeptic in most of the books, cause they don't give any information
    anyways, i have one book on cyrilic... i'll see what can i find
    depends on the book, and you don't know if it is good until you have read it.

  20. #60

    Default Re: Bosnian Church - Crkva Bosanska (matko says: all off topic posts will be deleted and their authors court-martialed)





    [url=http://www.bosniafacts.info/stecci/decorative_motifs_on_
    kada se bjehmo svadili, tada nas Stjepan Rajkovic umiri i da nam nas grad Bobovac, a neda ga dati Ugrom.

    "And when we were in a quarrel between each other; Stijepan Rajkovic calmed us down. And we entrusted our capital of Bobovac to him after which he defended it against the Hungarians (King Tvrtko I Kotromanic 1366.)"

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