Battlestar Galactica

So after starting and stopping and starting over again for almost 3 years I finally sat down and watched the new (2004) Battlestar Galactica series...everything from the mini series up through the movie The Plan. The only thing I didn't watch were the webisodes which I'll get to eventually if I can find them anywhere.

Anyway, I thought this show was GREAT!

I'm not a huge sci-fi guy outside of Star Wars (who isn't?) and Firefly so I was a little skeptical about it when a HUGE Star Trek nerd told me I should borrow his season DVDs and watch it. Yet I ended up loving it. I think what I liked most about it were the characters...it was a tremendously character-driven show and I've found in the past that I really like shows like that (hence my love for the short lived Firefly).

I think it's funny how supposedly the show garnered all this praise for being a metaphor for the War on Terror....honestly I never made that connection. It's not b/c I couldn't see the evidence but rather I was too busy really getting into the show.

It's a shame that it had to come to an end but it was only logical to bring it to a conclusion where it did...actually it probably could've ended about halfway through season 4 and that would've been fine...a few of those episodes in season 4 seemed a little unnecessary.

My only gripe about the show was how it moved from a slow pace to a fast pace between seasons 2 and 3. Seasons 1 and 2 took place over something like 9 months...33 or so episodes equaling 9 months. yet when we get to the last episode of season 2 we jump ahead a whole year and then in seasons 3 and 4 we jump from episode to episode sometimes covering months. What? Wasn't it like 2 or 3 years covered between season 3 and season 4?

The change in pace made the show seem to lose something. I can't really explain it but I just think the show was better when it was working in a shorter time frame rather than jumping around by months.



Any other BSG fans here?


BTW supposedly Olmos (aka Admiral Adama) has written a script for another movie about the fleet's lives on Earth after season 4 so that's something to look forward too. Also I think the creator also mentioned that fans should expect a few more movies in general sometime in the future.

I really hesitated watching this for years because I thought it would just be too nerdy... finally out of boredom I started the mini-series when the show was already in its fourth season. After that I was hooked and bought all the seasons. It's a great show, one of my favorites.

My only gripe about the show was how it moved from a slow pace to a fast pace between seasons 2 and 3. Seasons 1 and 2 took place over something like 9 months...33 or so episodes equaling 9 months. yet when we get to the last episode of season 2 we jump ahead a whole year and then in seasons 3 and 4 we jump from episode to episode sometimes covering months. What? Wasn't it like 2 or 3 years covered between season 3 and season 4?

The change in pace made the show seem to lose something. I can't really explain it but I just think the show was better when it was working in a shorter time frame rather than jumping around by months.

From what I've heard, the reason of the change in pace in season 3 was due to SciFi channel wanting to make the show more episodic in an attempt to make it easy for new viewers to watch, rather than the previous seasons long story arcs.

Originally Posted by GreyFox

From what I've heard, the reason of the change in pace in season 3 was due to SciFi channel wanting to make the show more episodic in an attempt to make it easy for new viewers to watch, rather than the previous seasons long story arcs.

This sorta makes sense actually I think, the reason I never started with Lost is because, well, I'd have been LOST. With BSG I was lucky to catch it all on TV up to season 4, then got me some DVDage to get my battlestar fix.

Battlestar is probably one of the coolest series I've seen in a long time. Character developement was awesome, I thought the way they did all the battles was fantastic too. All that flak and missile trails and stuff. It got really cool. I think the whole thing was wrapped up pretty intrestingly, but it recieved a lot of backlash from some with it's ending. But, I got chills up my spine when the music started to roll, considering what it was and all.

The peeling back layer after layer of the big mystery, spiralling headlong towards "destiny", and it all seeming unstoppable was what kept me watching. I think I blitzed through the DVDs very quickly, much more so even than 24.

All in all though, Adama is probably the most badass leader in all of sci-fi. If I was kicking space ass, I'd wanna be like Adama and growl "LAUNCH VIPERS!" at everyone through a big clunky telephone. The Chief and Colonol Tigh rocked as well.

What do you guys think of the complaint that the series was one big woman empowering trip?

I believe it was the guy who played the original Starbuck in the 1970s who wasn't happy about his reimagined character being a woman who brought it up. He makes the argument that the female characters in the show are the ones who are relentless and really pull the strings while the male characters are always switching sides, backing down, and breaking down. In a way I can sort of see his point but I'm not sure I'd call Colonel Tigh or Admiral Adama a couple of emasculated characters...thoughts?

Also some random points I'd like to see your thoughts on...don't read these unless you've watched the whole series

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

1. What do you think the deal with Starbuck was? Was she an angel? Why do you think the hybrid called her the "Harbinger of Death" and said that she'd "lead humanity to its end..." when the series ends up having a rather happy ending? To me phrases like those mean something negative, like she was supposed to lead humanity to its destruction not its salvation.

2. What was the deal with the first Earth...I got a little lost there for a second. So the 13th Tribe was Cylon right? Well how/why was there a war and why did the planet get nuked and destroyed? In addition to that if the 13th tribe was Cylon then why did they leave that Cylon killing probe out there in space?

3. At the end of the last episode there's that whole goodbye scene between Starbuck, Lee, Adama, and Roselin...I know Roselin was about to die but why did Lee say he'd never see his father again? Was Adama going to kill himself after Roselin passed away or was he just never ever coming back. I find it a little odd that he would never want to see his son again.

4. What was Leoben's deal? They never really go into depth about how he'd become so obsessed with Starbuck (except him following her radio chatter in The Plan) and how his model sort of turned into some sort of prophet.

Some other stuff I found to be very interesting was that all the Cylon models have names except Six, and I thought it was great how they made the audience regard characters differently as the show progressed. For example seasons 1 and 2 puts you in a sort of sympathetic mood for Baltar but then that starts to change in season 3, then changes into something else in 4. Gaeta was another good example, you like him at the start, then feel bad for him, then feel even more bad for him when he loses his leg, and finally you HATE him.

Originally Posted by VOP2288

Also some random points I'd like to see your thoughts on...don't read these unless you've watched the whole series

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

1. What do you think the deal with Starbuck was? Was she an angel? Why do you think the hybrid called her the "Harbinger of Death" and said that she'd "lead humanity to its end..." when the series ends up having a rather happy ending? To me phrases like those mean something negative, like she was supposed to lead humanity to its destruction not its salvation.

I think she was basicly there as a guide for them, as an angel or what, I don't know, but that's all I worked out from it and it explains her seemingly supernatural aspects.

2. What was the deal with the first Earth...I got a little lost there for a second. So the 13th Tribe was Cylon right? Well how/why was there a war and why did the planet get nuked and destroyed? In addition to that if the 13th tribe was Cylon then why did they leave that Cylon killing probe out there in space?

I think the point was all this had happened before, and would again. At the end when they're on our Earth and Balthar and 6 are discussing how it all turned out, they/we have reached the point where machines could rise again, and will face the same challenge. The nuked original wartorn Earth was like a glimpse into both the past, the present and future in essence to emphasise the supposedly cyclical nature of the BSG universe. At least as I see it.

3. At the end of the last episode there's that whole goodbye scene between Starbuck, Lee, Adama, and Roselin...I know Roselin was about to die but why did Lee say he'd never see his father again? Was Adama going to kill himself after Roselin passed away or was he just never ever coming back. I find it a little odd that he would never want to see his son again.

I think Adama was just going to go solo up in the woods by himself.

4. What was Leoben's deal? They never really go into depth about how he'd become so obsessed with Starbuck (except him following her radio chatter in The Plan) and how his model sort of turned into some sort of prophet.

I guess it's the prophet thing, some of the characters seemed to have a wider awareness of the context of the events in which they were engaged and I guess Leoben sensed what Kara Thrace's real role in things was. Although he was a bit mental too, hence being her stalker in essence.

Some other stuff I found to be very interesting was that all the Cylon models have names except Six, and I thought it was great how they made the audience regard characters differently as the show progressed. For example seasons 1 and 2 puts you in a sort of sympathetic mood for Baltar but then that starts to change in season 3, then changes into something else in 4. Gaeta was another good example, you like him at the start, then feel bad for him, then feel even more bad for him when he loses his leg, and finally you HATE him.

Adama was the king daddy bigballs of Galactica, end of. I think Starbuck aka Face from the A-team was just being a bit old fashioned and probably wanted to relive his glory days with a new young space-stud playing him. The other things I answered as I could in the spoiler tagged bit.

Originally Posted by Turtle Hammer

Adama was the king daddy bigballs of Galactica, end of. I think Starbuck aka Face from the A-team was just being a bit old fashioned and probably wanted to relive his glory days with a new young space-stud playing him. The other things I answered as I could in the spoiler tagged bit.

The original BSG can hardly be described as glory days...if he really wants to relive those, that's pretty sad.

Originally Posted by VOP2288

What do you guys think of the complaint that the series was one big woman empowering trip?

Thoughts? = What? Where's the reasoning in it? Because women were space combat pilots etc.?

Originally Posted by VOP2288

I believe it was the guy who played the original Starbuck in the 1970s who wasn't happy about his reimagined character being a woman who brought it up. He makes the argument that the female characters in the show are the ones who are relentless and really pull the strings while the male characters are always switching sides, backing down, and breaking down. In a way I can sort of see his point but I'm not sure I'd call Colonel Tigh or Admiral Adama a couple of emasculated characters...thoughts?
...

Again: What? Pretty much all characters are emotionally scarred beyond repair regardless of gender. Roslin does stupid things, Adama does stupid things, Thigh and Starbuck are drunk and do stupid things. Pretty much every character in the series is a mess. You have to be rather biased yourself to find gender bias in that.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

About the first Earth: But don't they discover that the 13th tribe was all Cylon? If they were all Cylons then why did they kill themselves and have a "rise of the machines" war like what happened on Kobol and the 12 colonies? As far as I could tell there were no humans on Earth, they were all machines...why would they have that war then? The cyclical nature of the universe relates to humans creating the sentient machines which then rise against them.

And as far as Adama going solo I still find it hard to believe that he would just remain isolated for the rest of his days. I mean, he spent the entire show rebuilding his relationship with Lee and now he's just gonna cut himself off from the only remaining family he has? Hopefully this new post-season 4 movie will deal with this.

Adama was the king daddy bigballs of Galactica, end of. I think Starbuck aka Face from the A-team was just being a bit old fashioned and probably wanted to relive his glory days with a new young space-stud playing him. The other things I answered as I could in the spoiler tagged bit.

Yeah, I think that the guy was just a little pissed off about his character's gender change but I do see some evidence to support his theory, but also some which negates it.

Because women were space combat pilots etc.?

Well not just that but also when you step back from the series you see that women fill some of the most important parts of the series: President/Prophet = Rosalin, Ace Pilot/Guide to Earth = Thrace, "Good" Cylons/most important Cylons = 6,8, and 3. It's not that I totally agree with the theory but at a certain viewpoint it does hold water. Not to mention the fact that Rosalin and Thrace do influence Admiral Adama's action and decisions quite a lot.


Also has anyone been watching Caprica. Granted it's totally different than BSG but I started watching it, it's a pretty good show when you get over the fact that you're not going to see space battles, humanoid Cylons, and non-stop action. Yet it is cool to see life on the 12 colonies pre-fall and the creation of the Cylons, it's also neat that Joseph Adama and a young William Adama are some of the main characters.

I think I read somewhere that this show won't be the only spin off series too...I believe Moore said something about another one but there's no info on what it would be about (which means that it probably won't even surface until after Caprica - so probably not for years).

Battlestar Galactica proves that a show can last long enough without any fillers, Balter is an awesome character, he should have had more screen time during season 4.

My only problem with the show is that they didn't kill any main character during the show.

Originally Posted by Yoni

Battlestar Galactica proves that a show can last long enough without any fillers, Balter is an awesome character, he should have had more screen time during season 4.

My only problem with the show is that they didn't kill any main character during the show.

Season 2 has heaps of fillers, and crap ones too.

Originally Posted by VOP2288

...

Well not just that but also when you step back from the series you see that women fill some of the most important parts of the series: President/Prophet = Rosalin, Ace Pilot/Guide to Earth = Thrace, "Good" Cylons/most important Cylons = 6,8, and 3. It's not that I totally agree with the theory but at a certain viewpoint it does hold water. Not to mention the fact that Rosalin and Thrace do influence Admiral Adama's action and decisions quite a lot.

So, the rest of the important posts (admiral, cag, alot of the captains and political leaders) are filled by men which kinda only allows the conclusion that gender equality is equalled to women empowerment which is a skewed viewpoint in itself. What Ronald Moore said in various commentaries that he wanted the Colonial society to be more gender equal and that implied for him that women there were far more pushy for career jobs than they are in our society and alot of stuff is not an issue which we still consider one to be. Imo it just continued what was a revolution in the original Battlestar Galactica (women pilots) in the 70s/80s into the mindset of the 21st century.

Overall the old Apollo enjoyed his new role as exterrorist, politican, captive, ursurper...

Originally Posted by Mangalore

So, the rest of the important posts (admiral, cag, alot of the captains and political leaders) are filled by men which kinda only allows the conclusion that gender equality is equalled to women empowerment which is a skewed viewpoint in itself. What Ronald Moore said in various commentaries that he wanted the Colonial society to be more gender equal and that implied for him that women there were far more pushy for career jobs than they are in our society and alot of stuff is not an issue which we still consider one to be. Imo it just continued what was a revolution in the original Battlestar Galactica (women pilots) in the 70s/80s into the mindset of the 21st century.

Overall the old Apollo enjoyed his new role as exterrorist, politican, captive, ursurper...

Yet I think that such a depiction is not the attempt to portray a "more enlightened" future society but simply the product of our society now, the desire to portray strong females and "girl power", something that is a trend in entertainment now and can be seen not only in sci-fi productions.
I feel that in a way, BSG is a soap opera wrapped into sci-fi.

Originally Posted by Captain Jin

As for empowering women or whatever, I didn't really see it. I'm probably one of the most quick to be angry about about women in combat roles in real life, tvs, and movies.

Seeing as you also like Terminator:SCC, with commando mom and the femmebot, I'm not so sure I believe that.

Originally Posted by Rapax

Yet I think that such a depiction is not the attempt to portray a "more enlightened" future society but simply the product of our society now, the desire to portray strong females and "girl power", something that is a trend in entertainment now and can be seen not only in sci-fi productions.
I feel that in a way, BSG is a soap opera wrapped into sci-fi.

If it's a desire in our society now it obviously is not reality now. I would say it is halfway stuck between the high morale bar of the principle of equality vs. cultural and even biological reality. So the portrayal that in BSG it is not considered in any way special for women to be at the reins is a more enlightened future based on our current morale fundament that everyone should have the same rights and opportunity.

Seeing as you also like Terminator:SCC, with commando mom and the femmebot, I'm not so sure I believe that.

It was Summer Glau. Girls who can play disturbed psychopaths obviously qualify!

Originally Posted by Mangalore

If it's a desire in our society now it obviously is not reality now. I would say it is halfway stuck between the high morale bar of the principle of equality vs. cultural and even biological reality. So the portrayal that in BSG it is not considered in any way special for women to be at the reins is a more enlightened future based on our current morale fundament that everyone should have the same rights and opportunity.

Whether it's a desire in our society now is disputable, more to the point it is an agenda propagated by the entertainment industry who obviously wants people to think that women are just like men, even if they don't have to be to be "strong". My point is that as much as the creators of BSG like to pretend they're depicting a more advanced society, all they're really doing is infusing their work with modern sensibilities towards the depiction of females which today is simply that women can do everything that men can.

It was Summer Glau. Girls who can play disturbed psychopaths obviously qualify!

Oh yes I know who it was, the same actress playing the occasional martial arts expert in Firefly as well. The point was that while Captain Jin claims to be angered by those types of female portrayals, he actually enjoys and endorses two shows that rely heavily on the "strong female" stereotype which is especially obvious in TSCC which has John Connor essentially protected by two "girls".

Battlestar Galactica proves that a show can last long enough without any fillers, Balter is an awesome character, he should have had more screen time during season 4.

Eh, I think Baltar got enough screen time in seasons 1 and 2...actually a majority of those seasons majorly revolved around his story arc

My only problem with the show is that they didn't kill any main character during the show.

What? A bunch of big time characters were killed off. Sure, maybe not the MAIN MAIN characters like Lee or Tigh or Admiral Adama but quite a few prominent characters met their end...

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Billy (died during that hostage situation)
Dualla (shot herself in season 4)
Rosalin (died from cancer)
Starbuck (actually died but then came back as an "angel" or "guide" and then disappeared into thin air)
Crashdown (shot by Baltar)
Socinus (died of wounds on Kobol)
Kat (died from radiation)
Racetrack & Skulls (died during the attack on the Cylon colony)
Cally (killed by Tori)
Jammer (killed as a Cylon collaborator)
Gaeta & Zarek (killed as mutineers)
Boomer (the #8 that we know as Sharon from all of season 1 and parts of seasons 2, 3, and 4)
The 3 different Admirals of Pegasus (Cain was shot by 6, Fisk is killed by a gang leader, and Garner gives his life to save Pegasus)
Sam (flew the fleet into the sun)
Tori (killed by Tyrol)
Cavell & Doral (since both the Cylon colony and the resurrection tech was destroyed)

Originally Posted by VOP2288

Eh, I think Baltar got enough screen time in seasons 1 and 2...actually a majority of those seasons majorly revolved around his story arc

What? A bunch of big time characters were killed off. Sure, maybe not the MAIN MAIN characters like Lee or Tigh or Admiral Adama but quite a few prominent characters met their end...

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Billy (died during that hostage situation)
Dualla (shot herself in season 4)
Rosalin (died from cancer)
Starbuck (actually died but then came back as an "angel" or "guide" and then disappeared into thin air)
Crashdown (shot by Baltar)
Socinus (died of wounds on Kobol)
Kat (died from radiation)
Racetrack & Skulls (died during the attack on the Cylon colony)
Cally (killed by Tori)
Jammer (killed as a Cylon collaborator)
Gaeta & Zarek (killed as mutineers)
Boomer (the #8 that we know as Sharon from all of season 1 and parts of seasons 2, 3, and 4)
The 3 different Admirals of Pegasus (Cain was shot by 6, Fisk is killed by a gang leader, and Garner gives his life to save Pegasus)
Sam (flew the fleet into the sun)
Tori (killed by Tyrol)
Cavell & Doral (since both the Cylon colony and the resurrection tech was destroyed)

1. I said season 4 not season 1 and 2.
2.I said main characters, besides, killing characters and bringing them back dosen't count, and i don't care that Rosalin died in the end, it had no affect on the story because it was in the end.

You just responded without realy reading my post, why?

Originally Posted by Yoni

1. I said season 4 not season 1 and 2.
2.I said main characters, besides, killing characters and bringing them back dosen't count, and i don't care that Rosalin died in the end, it had no affect on the story because it was in the end.

You just responded without realy reading my post, why?

Actually I did respond to your post...you complained about Baltar not getting enough screen time in season 4. I said that he got more than enough time in seasons 1 and 2 meaning that it, in my opinion, it wasn't a terrible thing that the series focused more on other characters in 3 and 4.

If we're talking MAIN characters you still have to consider Starbuck and Rosalin. Besides them there weren't really any other MAIN characters outside of the two Adamas, Tyrol, Tigh, and Sam. And out of all those "main characters" 3 still die in the series. You can't decide to negate Rosalin's death just b/c you didn't like her - she's still a main character, and you can't discount Starbuck...she's dead...she died when her ship blew up, her spirit came back, but then when her purpose was over she vanished.

it had no affect on the story because it was in the end.

If that's your reason for not caring about Rosalin's death than you should be more than happy with the other characters I used as examples...b/c all of their deaths had a greater effect on the story and events in the series.

I wonder if they'll ever expand on #7...in one episode in season 4 they mention that the Cylon #7 was named Daniel and was "boxed" a long time ago. I'm also wondering if maybe they're gonna tie that in with Caprica seeing as how one of the main characters who works on building the first Cylon models in named Daniel...however I don't think that would match up chronologically. Didn't the 5 make the humanoid 8 sometime between the 1st Cylon War and the Fall?