excommunication problem

[killervomit2]

okay its impossible to beat this game(on vh/vh) because at some point another catholic faction will attack me and even though they attacked me and the pope has more crosses for my faction he decides to excommunicate me then i get swarmed by crusades

[Stolet]

That shouldn't happen if you have a lot of crosses though. You should ally yourself with the Pope, that's the first diplomatic thing to do for every Catholic faction. That should ensure you Papal favour in the beginning of the game. Also keep a diplomat near Rome and give Pope some presents, like money, map information, or maybe some settlements you think you don't really need, that will give you more Papal favour crosses. If you do these things, you really shouldn't get excommunicated. Also, a good thing is fighting non-Catholics, fighting excommunicated factions, building Churches and Cathedrals, recruiting priests.

[Valandur]

Pretty much what Stolet said...
But, usually when the Pope calls a Crusade on a Catholic faction its all talk, no do.
I remember I sacked Rome as the HRE, the hobo Pope calls a Crusade and only France responded, who died for being Catholic anyway.

[killervomit2]

thanks

[E.K]

You can also use the pope to your advantage.

You can request a crusade on a faction. This helps if you cant destroy them by yourself.

[landkarte]

Well it's possible even if you don't care so much about good relationship with pope. I'v ecompleted campaign with Scotland on VH / VH, even though I've had war with Portugal, Spain, Denmark and England at a time an even got excommunicated once or twice. Just try not to get excommunicated unless it is really worth it.

BTW, you can only send a crusade to infidel city, therefore it's not so that you can request a crusade to neighbouring catholic state just because the pope likes you

[Kong_babylon]

Once I got excommunicated for whiping out Denmark, even though the pope told me not to lay a finger on them (played as England). This lasted for over 30+ turns and on top of that, the old hobo called a crusade on Jerusalem which I happened to posses aswell. soon, I was in war with the whole christian world except for the Poles and the Russians. It seemed what ever I tried, nothing would change this.

Out of sheer desperation, I attacked Rome and killed the pope. I made sure that I elected the Cardinal whome I knew would be likely to get elected, gave the new pope Rome back (after destroying all buildings 0 and voila, maxed out crosses for electing him + giving him Rome and gotten myself forgiven by the new pope.

[Litoralis]

These are the best campaigns. Nothing better than a prolonged struggle against the pope as a Catholic power.

[gamer025]

Hey. I'm not posting to add advice. These guys know what they are talking about and I'm not an expert. I'm just curious, what does VH difficulty do for campaign mode? I have an idea what it does for battles, just wondering how it changes campaign. Anybody have the facts?

**EDIT**

Wait I do have a tip actually. If you absolutely can't help being excommunicated... try to wait until there is a crusade going on already (especially if one has just been called.) THEN get excommunicated. You can't have a crusade against yourself for all the time of the crusade and for several turns afterward. If you're lucky the current one will last a while also.

Personally I've been ex'd a few times and never had a crusade called against me. Good luck!

[Norwegian_viking]

I got one simple word....Assasins (getting them too be that good is another thing thought)

[Litoralis]

I got one simple word....Assasins (getting them too be that good is another thing thought)

1. Just recruit all your assassins in one city, get an assassins guild.
2. Walk around and kill every random diplomat, imam, priest, merchant, or captain you can find on the map. Captains are the easiest.
3. Then go find any transferable retinue with any lousy assassins and give them to your best assassins.
4. Commence assassination attempts against the pope.
5. Profit.

[bertram boso]

Yeah, assassins are where it's at. I'm especially fond of using them against inquisitors.
In my experience, a surefire way to build up assassins' skills is to turn 'em loose against rebel army generals until they get higher traits ("murderer," etc.). Recruit them from a settlement with a thieve's or assassin's guild, and use them against rebels in your own territories. I've found that princesses are more vulnerable than diplomats and merchants, so I'd say princesses are the next level after they've merc'd a few rebels.
Then they're ready to start taking out the inquisitors and other papal agents. The downside is that your dread goes wayyyyyy up with heavy use of assassins, but so what? It's the Middle Ages!

[Noif de Bodemloze]

I remember well on my Spain, when my cardinal has become a pope to Rome and I was conquered Half france-area and some areas in Africa. Some more turns later, our pope who was my ex-cardinal betrayed Spain and excommuncationed us and declased crusaders to our Toulouse. HRE, Milan and Sicily took part to Crusader and I was alone against 3 factions. HRE and Milan sent many armies and Sicily sent some fleets to blockade my harbors. I had full army in Toulouse and sametime I prepared some armies in Spain for sending to Toulouse, then I had some nice battles with HRE & Milan army. Meanwhile I prepared two large armies in Spain to invasion to Rome and to one papal town, while other armies was fighting in South-France. My 2 large army with generals arrived to Rome, where was Pope and some man with him. We came, rushed through gates and killed pope (betrayer earn die!). Then crusade has ended and HRE,Milan and Sicily got peace and new pope became from Spain again. (I remember that I had about 5-7 cardinal on that time) hehe.... good memories

[zekic]

Once I got excommunicated for whiping out Denmark, even though the pope told me not to lay a finger on them (played as England)

Got same sitaution it seems pope really loves them..but when pope reacived a small "donation" of 20,000 florins the croses reached almost max from zero also i asked him what to to to get off my excommunication and he asked me for 7.6 k more (greedy bastard ) well how could i deny to our all beloved pope?
Also can someone explain me one thing:We elected as pope cardinal from france,france was my ally then(right now vassalls) after 10 truns pope execommunicated france.

[Noif de Bodemloze]

Also can someone explain me one thing:We elected as pope cardinal from france,france was my ally then(right now vassalls) after 10 truns pope execommunicated france.

Betrayer bastards like my pope cardinal from Spain and later excommuncationed us + crusade to my place.

[Empirion0]

Got same sitaution it seems pope really loves them..but when pope reacived a small "donation" of 20,000 florins the croses reached almost max from zero also i asked him what to to to get off my excommunication and he asked me for 7.6 k more (greedy bastard ) well how could i deny to our all beloved pope?
Also can someone explain me one thing:We elected as pope cardinal from france,france was my ally then(right now vassalls) after 10 truns pope execommunicated france.

One thing to keep in mind about the Pope mechanic in this game is that, it reflects a lot of the religious politics during this era. Before the Counter-Reformation the Catholic church was openly corrupt with the Church selling "salvation" from Hell if one gives enough money. So that fact becomes an important mechanic in game as you, the king, needs to maintain a steady flow of cash to the Papal State should you want to stay out of Hell. Of course, the bigger your empire, the more the Pope expects you to "donate", if you don't you'll probably get excommunicated due to jealousy by the Pope.

Another important part about Pope and Papal election is that once a cardinal becomes the pope, that unit will no longer belong to that faction. Although a cardinal may remember it was you, the player, who got him to being a Pope, but ultimately his job is to serve God (who unfortunately, trumps even you), so will eventually turn against you if you ignore him long enough. So if the Pope is going to "betray" you down the line, what is the purpose of getting your own cardinal elected? Well, several reasons:

1) You will be a less likely target for Papal attention. This means if you attack other Catholic factions who were neutral, the Pope will more likely to "turn a blind eye" and pretend nothing happened. Also, the funny part is that if your victim Catholic faction counter-attacks, the Pope will more than likely to ask them to stop.

2) "Cheaper" Crusades, meaning you don't have to have 7+ crosses for you to call a successful crusade. You probably get by with 5 crosses. Also since you elected your own faction's cardinal to the Papal seat, it is more than likely that your crosses are maxed out anyway.

3) The penalty for ignoring Papal missions are less punishing. You probably get negative crosses as oppose to outright excommunication if you have your own Pope. Of course, if you attack Rome, nothing is gonna save you from excommunication.

4) Although your favor with the Pope will decrease overtime regardless of which faction has a Pope in place, if you have your faction as the Pope, the crosses will obviously decrease slower than say, your enemy faction's Pope. However if you keep taking aggressive actions against fellow Catholic factions without provocations, then the Pope might just get so sick of covering your butt for you and excommunicate you anyway. (Yes, even if it is over own faction's Pope)

I hope that helps with some of the Papal State mechanics

[Heir]

I generally start off my game with sending a diplomat to the Pope, granting him Trade Rights +Alliance (usually is a very generous offer). I then gain "faith pleases his holiness" in the Pope scroll. Afterwards i wait for other factions to become excommunicated (my targets usually do), if they don't, i try to surround them and take them out within two turns so the excommunication mission does not pop up.

[grifo]

Hi guys!

Can someone please explain several things for me and other beginners:

I see that if i`ll blockade a port or put a siege on a town it will be declaration of war and clear act of agression from my side. So pope will gone mad about it. Ok..

Now how my counter attack on enemy sieging force is considered by the pope if war was decalred by their side? Is this an act of agression or just self defence and i`m allowed to it?

And more complex moment.. How works violation of borders?. If someone steps on my soil without rights to pass can I attack him without consequenses before he declares war?
If someone steps on my soil and war with him already declared can I attack him without consequenses then?

Or i`m always damn agressor doesnt matter who attacks and where it happens?

Any details about pope reaction to agressive acts in different situations are welcome.

[Silverheart]

Hi guys!

Can someone please explain several things for me and other beginners:

I see that if i`ll blockade a port or put a siege on a town it will be declaration of war and clear act of agression from my side. So pope will gone mad about it. Ok..

Now how my counter attack on enemy sieging force is considered by the pope if war was decalred by their side? Is this an act of agression or just self defence and i`m allowed to it?

And more complex moment.. How works violation of borders?. If someone steps on my soil without rights to pass can I attack him without consequenses before he declares war?
If someone steps on my soil and war with him already declared can I attack him without consequenses then?

Or i`m always damn agressor doesnt matter who attacks and where it happens?

Any details about pope reaction to agressive acts in different situations are welcome.

1. You´re allowed to defend yourself, without it violating a papal mission to cease hostilities.
2. Normally the pope ignores it when you´re fighting the enemy on your own lands, it´s called self-defense. Otherwise, you´ll get a message warning you to attack.
If you attack an enemy on your lands without being at war with them, it will of course be considered an act of war and it will hurt your reputation because you´re the attacker.

[grifo]

Thanks!

Well.. Yesterday I`m attacked sieging force, with my garrison troops and my papal raiting was lowered by one crest. Thats really silly! )). They violated my borders and started siege and I only defending my land in this situation, but that doesnt matter for pope. I`m a bad guy too. I must grant another cheek for the punch like the bible says. ))

Actually i was in hope that I can even attack an unjustified tresspaser without any diplomatic troubles. But it seems that any attack started by myself is -crest regardless of the situation.

At the same time all violators enjoy high papal raiting and no excom while atacking me repeatedly. This is AI cheat or they really bribing him every turn for damn indulgence. Want to know more about this mechanics.