Wellington: The Iron Duke

Just been watching this on British TV and thought you might find it interesting.

Excellent and so much filmed on location. I watched to the end of the period in India and I'll watch the rest tomorrow. A welcome change after England's dismal World Cup anyway.

A really appalling documentary about Waterloo on afterwards though, regurgitating all the usual rubbish.

Excellent videos, it really did help me learn more about Wellesley.

I beleive that the video's I posted above are only the first of several programmes covering different stages of his life and career. I just caught the final episode which covered Waterloo to his death, and that was really enlightening. I didn't actually realise how unpopular he became in later life, apparently he even got death threats when he tried to reform the laws repressing the Catholics in Britain, and he completely failed as Prime Minister destroying his own government through his lack of political savvy.

And I have to say I felt sorry for his poor wife Kitty.

Originally Posted by Didz

I beleive that the video's I posted above are only the first of several programmes covering different stages of his life and career. I just caught the final episode which covered Waterloo to his death, and that was really enlightening. I didn't actually realise how unpopular he became in later life, apparently he even got death threats when he tried to reform the laws repressing the Catholics in Britain, and he completely failed as Prime Minister destroying his own government through his lack of political savvy.

And I have to say I felt sorry for his poor wife Kitty.

I read the reason why he was called the Iron Duke was because he needed to put iron cages around his windows in order to protect them from being shattered by rocks thrown by his many enemies.

Originally Posted by ♔EmperorBatman999♔

I read the reason why he was called the Iron Duke was because he needed to put iron cages around his windows in order to protect them from being shattered by rocks thrown by his many enemies.

Yep! so the story goes.

In 1818, Wellington was given a post in Lord Liverpool's Tory government. In 1827, he became commander in chief of the British army, but in 1828 reluctantly accepted the post of prime minister. He believed in strong, authoritative government and an isolationist policy, although he antagonised sections of his party by forcing through the Catholic Emancipation Act (1829). His opposition to parliamentary reform made him unpopular, and he earned the nickname of the 'Iron Duke' when he erected iron shutters on the windows of his London home, Apsley House, to prevent them being smashed by angry crowds.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/histori..._duke_of.shtml

He was certanily very unpopular in that period of his life.

Richard Holmes is on UK TV a lot having done shows on Churchill, Cromwell, the American Revolutionary War, Arnhem, the 1914 Flanders campaign etc .

Where he does do well is in actually walking (or riding) around the battlefields instead of relying on fancy graphics and anachronistic visual props (its a battle so I'll borrow a tank) like his main TV rivals Peter and Dan Snow.

And unlike them he is an actual soldier of sorts - in fact a Brigadier in the Territorial Army.

At least you can see he's earning his fees as comes puffing over the hill in his Barbour jacket.

Highly recommend his book 'Redcoat' and the English Civil War book he did with Peter Young.

Would just love to see him tear into someone though - he really only seems to write and broadcast about his military heroes - never the villains.

I'd say Wellington is a joke, and that he fought disgracefuly at Waterloo. A camper of his time, with the only tactical virtue he had was Zeithen's soilder's boots.

He was a bad general flat out, and the English under his command were similarly bad men.

Originally Posted by Geraud Duroc

I'd say Wellington is a joke, and that he fought disgracefuly at Waterloo. A camper of his time, with the only tactical virtue he had was Zeithen's soilder's boots.

He was a bad general flat out, and the English under his command were similarly bad men.

Really?

Originally Posted by MrT

Really?

Let say that he and his brits did a nice act of figuration during that Prussian victory with 18% of British soldiers. At least they were there, and didnt miss the battle, like for 95% of the rest of the napoleonic wars.
Nice effort for once.

Why the Iron Duke by the way? Something to do with a special hiding/fleeing ability he had or just the result of 200 years of brainwashing propaganda in Britain?

Originally Posted by Drakon

Why the Iron Duke by the way? Something to do with a special hiding/fleeing ability he had or just the result of 200 years of brainwashing propaganda in Britain?

No! As EmperorBatman999 has already explained he was called 'The Iron Duke' because he needed to put iron cages around his windows in order to protect them from being shattered by rocks thrown by mobs of ordinary citizens who hated his guts.

If you watch the video's you will discover that Wellington was not a very popular person in later life, he even got death threats when he tried to reform the laws repressing the Catholics in Britain, and he completely failed as Prime Minister destroying his own government through his lack of political savvy.

Originally Posted by Δράκων

Let say that he and his brits did a nice act of figuration during that Prussian victory with 18% of British soldiers. At least they were there, and didnt miss the battle, like for 95% of the rest of the napoleonic wars.
Nice effort for once.

Why the Iron Duke by the way? Something to do with a special hiding/fleeing ability he had or just the result of 200 years of brainwashing propaganda in Britain?

good one! because the prussians clearly were more successful than the english during the napoleonic wars! right! Waterloo was a joint victory if anything; the British fought the majority of the french while Blucher turned the french flank. And have you heard of the Peninsular war? battle of the nile? Who do you think financed the efforts against napoleon? certainly not Prussia. While I have nothing against prussia, it's just silly to malign england. They were on an island, and had a relatively small population. They fought france in ways they were able; I.E. navally. And frankly, they had more success against france in open battle than did Prussia. I am not sure how anyone can arrive at the conclusion wellington was a bad general, or a camper. Whomever did that clearly has never heard of Vitoria or assaye.

Battle of Pombal
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Pombal

eeehhhh that's not exactly the same....a rear guard action vs a full fledged battle (full armies). But I agree he wasn't invincible, doesn't mean he wasn't one of the best, if not THE best, commander of the time.

Originally Posted by underworld965

(...)Who do you think financed the efforts against napoleon? (...)

You said it. Congratulations. It requires courage, and accepting reality. Something brits usually lack.
But to the subject: you're right. They financed it. That's their contribution.
As for real fighting, it requires balls. Men, you know. Well, maybe you dont. Anyway, they had to "use" the Prussians, Austrians and Russians.

Mmm did I forget something?!...mmm ah yes, the smily, perfect for the situation when you speak about britain in that period: You're welcome.

Originally Posted by Geraud Duroc

I'd say Wellington is a joke, and that he fought disgracefuly at Waterloo. A camper of his time, with the only tactical virtue he had was Zeithen's soilder's boots.

He was a bad general flat out, and the English under his command were similarly bad men.

Wellington is overrated as a general, but I wouldn't go to say he was absolutely terrible.
I'd say Wellington got lucky on most of his battles, if he were to be faced with the best of the Grand Armee before 1812 commanded by a healthy Napoleon on fairer terrain, Wellington would lose.

Not this Waterloo and anti-British thing again. You know there were other battles that Wellington fought which he won?

Originally Posted by MrT

Not this Waterloo and anti-British thing again. You know there were other battles that Wellington fought which he won?

Against the Grande Armée, not against occupation troops poorly lead by Napoléon's brother, and without heavily outnumbering his opponent?
Oh really, which ones?

Sorry if I'm not impressed by generals fighting behind coalition troops with 20-40% max. of the troops in presence, avoiding 1v1 fights, fleeing oops sorry I meant "tacticaly retreating".
And later on taking pride of all the job by rewriting History, after drying the pants he wetted when he thought the Prussians wont come in time... no seriously.

Any serious napoleonic enthousiast would have hard time to make him enter a top 10 of the napoleonic wars generals.

Now concerning the video and what he did after the Prussian victory of Waterloo, I dont know. And I dont care.
I am just annoyed by people glorifying such an imposture. If I were German (Prussian) I'd feel insulted too.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Pensez-vous que j'aurais sacrifié le sang des Français pour ma seule vanité?

Non! Sans l'arrivée de Blücher, les Anglais étaient écrasés et la coalition n'aurait pas survécu à un tel coup de tonnerre! Je venais de défaire les Prussiens avant qu'ils aient fait leur jonction avec Wellington et j'avais lancé Grouchy à la poursuite de leur Armée en retraite afin de me mettre à l'abri d'une mauvaise surprise! Une fois les Prussiens et les Anglais défaits, les Autrichiens auraient négocié la paix et les Libéraux auraient pris la place des conservateurs en Angleterre. Dès lors, la Russie se retrouvait isolée, l'argent britannique ne finançait plus les coalitions et tout redevenait possible!
- Napoléon Bonaparte.

*Sans l'arrivée de Blücher, les Anglais étaient écrasés*
*Without the arrival of Blücher, the English would have been crushed*

But still, there are people who continue to praise wellingthing.
Properly unbelievable.

Originally Posted by Drakon

Against the Grande Armée, not against occupation troops poorly lead by Napoléon's brother, and without heavily outnumbering his opponent?
Oh really, which ones?

Sorry if I'm not impressed by generals fighting behind coalition troops with 20-40% max. of the troops in presence, avoiding 1v1 fights, fleeing oops sorry I meant "tacticaly retreating".
And later on taking pride of all the job by rewriting History, after drying the pants he wetted when he thought the Prussians wont come in time... no seriously.

Any serious napoleonic enthousiast would have hard time to make him enter a top 10 of the napoleonic wars generals.

Now concerning the video and what he did after the Prussian victory of Waterloo, I dont know. And I dont care.
I am just annoyed by people glorifying such an imposture. If I were German (Prussian) I'd feel insulted too.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

*Sans l'arrivée de Blücher, les Anglais étaient écrasés*
*Without the arrival of Blücher, the English would have been crushed*

But still, there are people who continue to praise wellingthing.
Properly unbelievable.

Really?
So do you REALLY think that the FRENCH Grande Arme was French?

Active 1805–15 Country France Size At its height in 1812 consisted of 554,500 men:
• 300,000 Frenchmen and Dutchmen
• 95,000 Poles
• 35,000 Austrians
• 30,000 Italians[1]
• 24,000 Bavarians
• 20,000 Saxons
• 20,000 Prussians
• 17,000 Westphalians
• 15,000 Swiss
• 3,500 Croats

QED.

Source: quick look on Wikipedia

SO WAS NAPOLEON HIDING BEHIND ALL THESE FOREIGNERS TOOOOOOO??

Originally Posted by MrT

I´m not agreeing with Drakon that the forces that Wellington faced were just occupation troops but most units did not represent the best french had to offer

We do agree here. Good point, MrT!

Originally Posted by Francisco de Miranda

Really?
So do you REALLY think that the FRENCH Grande Arme was French?

Active 1805–15 Country France Size At its height in 1812 consisted of 554,500 men:
• 300,000 Frenchmen and Dutchmen
• 95,000 Poles
• 35,000 Austrians
• 30,000 Italians[1]
• 24,000 Bavarians
• 20,000 Saxons
• 20,000 Prussians
• 17,000 Westphalians
• 15,000 Swiss
• 3,500 Croats

QED.

Source: quick look on Wikipedia

SO WAS NAPOLEON HIDING BEHIND ALL THESE FOREIGNERS TOOOOOOO??

Even at its peak in 1812 (what you posted there) it's still 50+% of frenchmen in it.
And when the napoleonic wars started and when Napoléon started to expand and win his first battle in central Europe, it's was close to 100% french.
Besides all what you listed was part of the Empire Francais. Nothing less, nothing more.
These people fought for the idea behind the Empire Francais, an ideal. And they were all volunteers, wanted to fight for the Empire Francais.
That's precisely what it is to be "french minded", nothing to do with your initial origins. And was very true in 1805-1815 -even if it may sound utopical- because France and Napoléon represented some kind of physical and intellectual liberation -especially true for the Poles-
(Salutations à nos amis Polonais, soit dit en passant!)

Or are you pretending that Prussia was your colony, or maybe your puppet? -I'm ready to believe that you do believe the latter-

If not, try to live with the fact that Britain was only less than 18% of the troops in presence at Waterloo and in fact during the whole napoleonic wars (17 to 19 % from 1800 to 1815 depending of the sources) and would have been crushed without Blücher's Prussians.

Now the real question is elsewhere: did Wellington piss in his pants or not while waiting for the Prussians?

Originally Posted by Drakon

Besides all what you listed was part of the Empire Francais. Nothing less, nothing more.
These people fought for the idea behind the Empire Francais, an ideal. And they were all volunteers, wanted to fight for the Empire Francais.

Pretty sure that the Prussians and Austrians did not fight for the French voluntarily during 1812