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  1. #1
    Pra's Avatar Sir Lucious Left Foot
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    Default UN probe to question Syrians

    UN probe 'can quiz key Syrians'
    Syria says a UN team examining former Lebanese Prime Minister Rafik Hariri's death can question two relatives of the Syrian president linked to the inquiry.
    Sami al-Khiyami, the ambassador to the UK, told the BBC the investigating team had not asked to interview the men before publishing its interim report.

    It had not put forward evidence giving grounds for questioning, he said.

    Meanwhile the head of the UN inquiry, Detlev Mehlis, has returned to Lebanon to continue his investigations.

    Mr Mehlis' interim report implicated Syrian and pro-Syria Lebanese officials and accused Damascus of misleading his investigating team.

    A UN resolution has threatened further action unless Syria co-operates fully.

    Demands for evidence

    Mr Khiyami said the two men, the president's brother Maher al-Assad - who heads the presidential guard - and brother-in-law Asif Shawkat, the military intelligence chief, would co-operate with the inquiry of their own accord.


    Now the Syrian government needs to make a strategic decision to fundamentally change its behaviour
    Condoleezza Rice US Secretary of State


    "[President Bashar al-Assad] doesn't even have to make them, they will go and see the commission," he told BBC Radio 4's Today programme.

    He said the commission had asked to speak to, and spoken to, nine or 10 people, but never requested an interview with the two men.

    "In our eyes there was full co-operation. However, if the commission had said at that time that it had suspects we would have acted differently," he said.

    Both men were implicated in an early draft of the inquiry's report.

    The ambassador repeated Syrian demands for evidence that its officials had been involved in, or had known about Hariri's assassination.


    Syria is key to the Middle East - pressure on it will shift the last of the moderates to the extreme
    Bill, US


    Syria has until 15 December to comply with the resolution sponsored by the US, France and the UK, which includes a call for Damascus to detain suspects identified by the inquiry.

    In response to the unanimous UN vote, Syrian Foreign Minister Farouq al-Sharaa earlier criticised Mr Mehlis for accusing his country without due process.

    He said no evidence had been put forward concerning alleged false and misleading statements from Syrian officials to investigators.

    "It is clear for any person who has followed this issue throughout that Syria's co-operation was complete. I repeat: complete."

    Unanimous vote

    The killing of Hariri in a car bombing in Beirut in February led to widespread criticism of Syria, which was forced to withdraw its soldiers from Lebanon as a result.


    KEY UN FINDINGS
    Assassins had considerable resources and capabilities
    Evidence suggests both Syria and Lebanon were involved
    Crime was prepared over several months
    Hariri's movements and itineraries were monitored
    Highly unlikely Syrian or Lebanese intelligence were not aware of assassination plot
    Most computers will open PDF documents automatically, but you may need to download Adobe Acrobat Reader.


    The UN launched its inquiry in the aftermath of the killing.

    Last week, Mr Mehlis said Syria had given misleading information and had not fully co-operated with his commission.

    At the weekend, Syria announced its own inquiry into the death of Hariri.

    Damascus said a special judicial committee would question both civilian and military personnel in the country.

    The committee would also co-operate with the UN investigation, the Syrian presidency said.

    Story from BBC NEWS:
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/h...st/4396568.stm

    Published: 2005/11/01 15:03:05 GMT

    © BBC MMV
    Hopefully, the Syrians will comply fully, and hopefully the investigations are carried out completely and the Syrians are 'clean'-though this is a fool's hope. I'm not sure if the America can afford to intervene in Syria if there is further escalating conflict.
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  2. #2
    MoROmeTe's Avatar For my name is Legion
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    I think it is pretty self evident that the US cannot intervene anywhere else in the world at the moment.

    I also think that Syria is pretty much involved in Lebannon and that they were involved in what I'd say is a gross manner.

    Also the UN cannot do much. Economica sanctions are not likely to be thorough on a country that has oil...


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    Pra's Avatar Sir Lucious Left Foot
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    Also the UN cannot do much. Economica sanctions are not likely to be thorough on a country that has oil...
    What about Iraq? There were some reports that stated that the Iraqi livelihood, economy, and ability to construct 'WMD' material was greatly hurt and endangered by the sanctions. Further, the sanctions prohibited the exchange of fissile materials into Iraq.
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    The biggest problem is that sanctions simply do not work over extended periods of time, and I think it is questionable whether they can even work in short terms.

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    Pra's Avatar Sir Lucious Left Foot
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peachy Carnehan
    The biggest problem is that sanctions simply do not work over extended periods of time, and I think it is questionable whether they can even work in short terms.
    How so?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prarara
    How so?
    Mostly it just requires too much. Its not possible to stop every single thing a regime is going to do. And also, as mentioned, people are corrupt, and companies and individuals will allow for the circumvention of sanctions. And inspectors or monitors cannot inspect and monitor everything.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Prarara
    What about Iraq? There were some reports that stated that the Iraqi livelihood, economy, and ability to construct 'WMD' material was greatly hurt and endangered by the sanctions. Further, the sanctions prohibited the exchange of fissile materials into Iraq.
    Quite wrong, Saddam found ways around the sanctions. Oil for food Scandal. They just don't work; there are ways of circumventing them. And also to Squeakus Maximus who said we would invade Syria?
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    Pra's Avatar Sir Lucious Left Foot
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    Quote Originally Posted by Major.Stupidity
    Quite wrong, Saddam found ways around the sanctions. Oil for food Scandal. They just don't work; there are ways of circumventing them. And also to Squeakus Maximus who said we would invade Syria?
    Undermining Iraq’s Food Security
    By Ghali Hassan

    01/31/05 "ICH" -- The US Occupation Authority has imposed legislation, which could have detrimental and lasting impact on Iraqis farmers and Iraq’s ability to produce food for the Iraqi people. One of the orders left by administrator Paul Bremer, is Order 81 on “Patent, Industrial Design, Undisclosed Information, Integrated Circuits and Plant Variety”[1]. Unless an independent sovereign Iraqi government repeals it, it will override Iraq's original patent law of 1970, which in accordance with the Iraqi constitution prohibited private ownership of biological resources, and undermine Iraq’s food security.

    Iraq is home to the oldest agricultural traditions in the world. Historical, genetic and archaeological evidence, including radiocarbon dating of carbon-containing materials at the site, showed that the Fertile Crescent, including modern Iraq, was the first region where sheep were domesticated and wheat crops were cultivated around 9000-8000 B.C. Since then, the inhabitants of Mesopotamia have used informal seed supply system to plant their crops. While much has changed in the ensuing millennia, agriculture remains an essential part of Iraq’s heritage.

    Traditionally, Iraqi farmers used “farm-saved seed” and the free innovation with and exchange of planting materials among farming communities has long been the basis of agricultural practice. According to the Food Agriculture Organisation (FAO), 97 percent of Iraqi farmers used farm-saved seeds from their own stocks from last year harvest or purchased from local market. The new law deprives Iraqi farmers of their innovation and development of important crops such barley, wheat, pulses and the famous Iraqi date. Despite extreme aridity, characterised by low rainfalls and soil salinity, Iraq had a world standard agricultural sector producing good quality food for generations.

    Under the new US Order, the saving and planting of seeds will be illegal and market will only offer plant material produced by transactional agribusiness corporations. The US Order introduces a system of private monopoly rights over seeds and will force Iraqi farmers to relay on big US corporations to buy its yearly crop seeds for planting. The term of the monopoly is 20 years for crop varieties and 25 for trees and vines. During this time the protected variety de facto becomes the property of the breeder, and nobody can plant or otherwise use this variety without compensating the breeder.

    Iraqi farmers will have to buy and plant so-called “protected” crop varieties brought into Iraq by mostly American transactional corporations such as Monsanto and Dow Chemical. According to Focus on the Global South, a Bangkok-based policy research and advocacy centre, “the new patent law also explicitly promotes the commercialisation of genetically modified (GM) seeds in Iraq”, which will have detrimental effects on the environment and people's health, and increase farmers’ dependency on agribusiness. Furthermore, ‘commercial agriculture places a real premium on genetic uniformity. It is not an adequate genetic reservoir for the future, they rest on a very narrow genetic base, and it’s been selected solely for the goal of maximising production’ and profits, said Hope Shand, Research Director of Erosion, Technology and Concentration Group.

    This is a “new US war against Iraqi farmers” said GRAIN, the non-governmental organisation (NGO) which promotes sustainable use of agricultural biodiversity and people's control over genetic resources and local knowledge. The recent report by GRAIN and Focus on the Global South has found that the new legislation has been carefully put in place by the US administration in order to prevent Iraqis farmers from saving their seeds and effectively hands over the seed market to transactional corporations [2]. For example, Monsanto controls over 90% of the total world area sown to transgenic seeds. “The US has been imposing patents on life around the world through trade deals. In this case, they invaded [Iraq] first, and then imposed their patents. This is both immoral and unacceptable”, writes Shalini Bhutani, one of the report’s authors. The new Order is an extension of the old genocidal economic sanctions.

    Since 1990 the US imposed harsh conditions on Iraq through the UN-supervised economic sanctions regimes. The sanctions restricted Iraq’s ability to export oil and more importantly to import vital commodities such as food and medicines. Under the sanctions regime, Iraq’s food security and agricultural activities are severely threatened. Agricultural inputs such as seeds, fertilizers, pesticides, farm machineries and other necessary items for food production are not available under the dual-use policy thus undermining food availability. The sanctions has damaged Iraq’s agricultural sector and caused the death of hundreds of thousand of Iraqis.

    Reliable estimates from humanitarian aid organisations and UN officials estimated that the total number of Iraqi deaths caused by the sanctions’ impact on food, medicines, water treatment and other health-related factors is about 1.5 million, a third of them children under the age of 5 years. It was a deliberate mass atrocity [3].

    During the 13 years of UN-sponsored sanctions, Iraq’s was barred from importing important items such as agricultural fertilisers, pesticides, foodstuff and many other agricultural tools essential for the production of food for the Iraqi population. “You kill people without blood or organs flying around, without angering American public opinion. People are dying silently in their beds. If 5,000 children are dying each month, this means 60,000 a year. Over eight years, we have half a million children. This is equivalent to two or three Hiroshimas”, Ashraf Bayoumi, former head of the World Food Programme Observation Unit, in charge of monitoring food distribution in Iraq told Al-Ahram Weekly on 24 December 1998.

    According to several credible reports, food shortages and malnutrition was a lesser problem before the sanctions. ”I went to Iraq in September 1997 to oversee the U.N.'s ‘oil for food’ program. I quickly realized that this humanitarian program was a Band-Aid for a U.N. sanctions regime that was quite literally killing people. Feeling the moral credibility of the U.N. was being undermined, and not wishing to be complicit in what I felt was a criminal violation of human rights, I resigned after 13 months”, Denis Halliday, former humanitarian aid coordinator for Iraq told an audience at Harvard University in Cambridge, Massachusetts on November 05, 1998.

    We know now that the pretexts for the US-Britain wars and sanctions on Iraq are utter lies. Iraq had no WMD since 1991 and Iraq had no relations with terrorist groups. The war on Iraq was initiated on the basis of overall strategic goals that include the control of Iraq’s natural resources, including Iraq’s oil. We also know that the invasion of Iraq in 2003 ‘constitutes blatant aggression by the US and Britain outside the bounds of the UN Charter’ and international law. US wars and the sanctions against Iraq have severely damaged Iraq’s ability to produce food for its population.

    The US Order 81 will complete this deliberate and illegal destruction of Iraq’s agricultural sector. By illegally invading Iraq and robbing Iraq of its plant varieties, and depriving it of food security, the US is in violation of international law. Iraq’s plant varieties comprise the agricultural heritage of Iraq belonging to the Iraqi farmers. Iraq sovereignty including food sovereignty for the Iraqi people is paramount.

    Only an end to US occupation and the return of Iraq’s natural resources, including biological resources, will ensure Iraq’s freedom and liberation from foreign forces.

    Ghali Hassan lives in Perth, Western Australia. He can be contacted on:
    G.Hassan@exchange.curtin.edu.au

    Notes:

    [1] Patent, Industrial Design, Undisclosed Information, Integrated Circuits and Plant Variety Law of 2004, CPA Order No. 81, http://www.iraqcoalition.org/regulat...atents_Law.pdf

    [2] http://www.grain.org/articles/?id=6.

    [3] Gideon Polya, Australasian Science June 2004.

    Copyright © Information Clearing House. All rights reserved. You may republish under the following conditions: An active link to the original publication must be provided. You must not alter, edit or remove any text within the article, including this copyright notice.

    (In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, this material is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes. Information Clearing House has no affiliation whatsoever with the originator of this article nor is Information Clearing House endorsed or sponsored by the originator.)
    http://www.informationclearinghouse....rticle7915.htm


    To reduce the humanitarian impact of the sanctions, the Oil for Food Programme (OFFP) was introduced in 1996, which allowed the Iraqi government to sell oil and use the revenue to purchase humanitarian supplies. The programme helped arrest further deterioration in the humanitarian situation but did not greatly improve conditions for most Iraqis, because of revenue shortfalls and structural problems inherent in the programme. Thus, the basic services infrastructure of Iraq on the eve of this war remained in a deplorable state.

    In the months leading up to the war in mid-March 2003, UNICEF pre-positioned over $14 million in emergency supplies and equipment in and around Iraq, and established logistics hubs along the border with neighbouring countries, which allowed for quick trans-border deliveries of relief supplies into Iraq once the war broke out.
    http://www.unicef.org/infobycountry/iraq.html

    If you notice, sanctions did reduce the Iraqi Economy;further, if sanctions are kept in place, then a country will face economic destitution
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  9. #9
    Tom Paine's Avatar Mr Common Sense
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    Nuclear weapoonery isn't the issue here. Syria has an, shall we say, unhealthy ineterest in Lebanon; the sort of interest Hitler had in Poland.

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    If we rely on the UN to sanction Syria for there involvement in the bombing, I can't see anything happening.....
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    Pra's Avatar Sir Lucious Left Foot
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squeakus Maximus
    Nuclear weapoonery isn't the issue here. Syria has an, shall we say, unhealthy ineterest in Lebanon; the sort of interest Hitler had in Poland.
    Exactly, and it is up to the world powers, in this case the UN, to not back down this 'Hitler', and give in to the policy of appeasement.
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    Tom Paine's Avatar Mr Common Sense
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prarara
    Exactly, and it is up to the world powers, in this case the UN, to not back down this 'Hitler', and give in to the policy of appeasement.
    Very true, but an invasion does more harm than good.

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    Pra's Avatar Sir Lucious Left Foot
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squeakus Maximus
    Very true, but an invasion does more harm than good.
    How about military threat? Not invasion.
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    Tom Paine's Avatar Mr Common Sense
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    Its better than another invasion...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Squeakus Maximus
    Its better than another invasion...
    Doing nothing (which is basically what Un does) is just as bad as doing the wrong thing, how about aiming for higher goal of the UN actually doing its duty instead of just dismissing it as well atleast they arent invading. Wars kill and inflict suffering on people and so does sitting by idle.

    The biggest problem is that sanctions simply do not work over extended periods of time, and I think it is questionable whether they can even work in short terms.
    As long as there are companies who will try and get around them and people in goverment and the UN who can be bought off then yeah sanctions really dont work. Sanctions that were strictly enforced and governed would do wonders though, I mean look at Iraq the sanctions did nothing but hurt the people meanwhile Saddam and his cronies didnt seem to suffer at all even though the whole goal was Oil for Food program but still it failed.

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    Tom Paine's Avatar Mr Common Sense
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    They resist or whatever, and then we have to invade or lose all credibility.
    danzig: there's a difference between non-military action and no action, however.

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    Tom Paine's Avatar Mr Common Sense
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    It reduces the deths, the justifications fr further atrocities, et cetera though.

  18. #18
    Farnan's Avatar Saviors of the Japanese
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    How about this, we start training Iraqi soldiers to use armored vehicles and planes, along with provide military aid in the form of training and materiale to Lebanon. Iraq and Lebanon may build to become a counterbalance to Syria and Iran. Lebanon is moving towards a democracy, yes?
    “The nation that will insist upon drawing a broad line of demarcation between the fighting man and the thinking man is liable to find its fighting done by fools and its thinking by cowards.”

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    Tom Paine's Avatar Mr Common Sense
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    Hmm, it might be worth a try until you rmember how long it'd take before you could afford to lose troops from Iraq and the relative sizes of Lebanon and Syria.

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    Farnan's Avatar Saviors of the Japanese
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    Well if we supply Lebanon will Abrams M1A-1 (aka, slightly weakened Abrams tanks) along with modern military equipment, then they will have the advantage over Syria. Don't forget, Israel with modern equipment took on the whole middle east.

    Edit: Also remember Syria has a pro-democracy front, if Lebanon can be shown strong enough to challenge Syria, the pro-democracy front can gain power.
    “The nation that will insist upon drawing a broad line of demarcation between the fighting man and the thinking man is liable to find its fighting done by fools and its thinking by cowards.”

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