Why Did the Japanese Use Suicide in WWII?

[RuleBritannia]

I know that a good portion of the Japanese casualties were from suicides, and I knew they had a high sense of honour, but why not just die fighting instead of killing yourself?

They might have fared much better had they kept fighting instead of just killing themselves on the spot, I think.


So, why was suicide, instead of "fight to the death", the used tactic for when a battle started going against their favour?

[hellheaven1987]

Not sure. The idea of Banzai charge was based on a quote from Chinese (ya, irony it is Chinese idea) "大丈夫寧可玉砕何能瓦全", which translated to "a great man should die as a shattered jewel rather than live as an intact tile." or in more European sense "a real man should die honorably instead live a shameful life." Overall, it can explain why Japanese used Banzai charge when situation was hopless (Chinese also did it, when situation became really hopless), but I don't understand (as a Chinese) how Japanese would even commit suicide instead gave a final attempt of fighting... May be they were too shameful to live??? I don't know, may be we should ask French and Japanese members...

[RuleBritannia]

I don't know, may be we should ask French and Japanese members...

I see wat u did thar

[hellheaven1987]

I see wat u did thar

Well, French chief artillery commander committed suicide during Battle of Dien Bien Phu, when his artilleries failed to stop Vietminh artilleries and he simply abandoned his duty, killed himself using a grenade in the first few days of battle, left the whole artillery section commanderless and a great blow to remained French command. God and French probably know why he did that but that is beyond others' imagination.

[frontier-auxilia]

1. POW: Disgraceful, deplorable and when captured they gonna make you suffer much worst then what allied soldiers suffered in the hands of the Japanese. From what i read, Japanese propaganda in the war enjoys telling soldiers that allied POW camp is technically hell on earth.

2.This one japanese dude theorise that its a collectivism thing. Get a few dudes to sacrifice themselves to take out a hard target, the rest have an easier time.

3.final blaze of glory

4.sound military tactic gone bad.

[Juggernaut]

1: For most of the time, they really weren't in a state to fight anymore when they killed themselves; i.e no more ammo, nearly starved etc.
2: They were taught that becoming a POW is the most disgraceful thing for a soldier, and it would bring a great shame to their entire family. As a result many soldiers wanted to avoid the risk of getting captured since that risked having their family being completely ostracized from the society.
3: Because of the above belief, they also believed that the Allies had the same perception of a POW, and the Japanese military did not educate their soldiers about the international law in any way. Therefore many also believed that getting captured by the Allies would mean a long and painful death in a POW camp.

So for many the choice was either of getting captured, disgracing your whole family, ostracizing them from the society and enduring a long and painful death or simply killing yourself with a grenade.

[Chukada1]

Bad NCO's probably. Stupid Junior officers.

[hellheaven1987]

1: For most of the time, they really weren't in a state to fight anymore when they killed themselves; i.e no more ammo, nearly starved etc.
2: They were taught that becoming a POW is the most disgraceful thing for a soldier, and it would bring a great shame to their entire family. As a result many soldiers wanted to avoid the risk of getting captured since that risked having their family being completely ostracized from the society.
3: Because of the above belief, they also believed that the Allies had the same perception of a POW, and the Japanese military did not educate their soldiers about the international law in any way. Therefore many also believed that getting captured by the Allies would mean a long and painful death in a POW camp.

So for many the choice was either of getting captured, disgracing your whole family, ostracizing them from the society and enduring a long and painful death or simply killing yourself with a grenade.

There is always something called bayonet charge that does not require ammo, so out of ammo is really not an excuse to blow out yourself with grenade.

The Banzai charge was not, certainly not initially, a suicide charge.
It was an effort to focus as much offensive strength in one location and then to pierce through enemy lines and roll them up.
However, in the face of liberal use of automatic weapons by Allied troops, it proved too costly and ineffective. but the Japanese never really found an alternative and thus kept using this as a last throw of the dice. A banzai charge was the tactic deemed most likely to bring about a victory, which should tell you something about how well things were going for the Japanese. It wasn't an efficient use of troops if you wanted to hurt the opponent as much as possible. But if you still wanted to win, it was the only shot you had.
And on Guadalcanal, where the Japanese elite faced inexperienced bolt action equipped Marines, they may well have thought they were in with a chance. That they kept on trying it throughout the war though, is just folly.


Not suicide as such, but something very near to it.

The problem was Japanese used Banzai charge in large formation, WWI style, hence became a very costy action. Ironically, Japanese probably learned such tactic from Chinese, who also used melee charge, but in small unit with night cover, and focused on particular targets, hence had quite a good result overall.

[Juggernaut]

There is always something called bayonet charge that does not require ammo, so out of ammo is really not an excuse to blow out yourself with grenade.

In many instances they were starving to death or nearly dead by Malaria. They could hardily walk in that state, let alone running and screaming while holding a gun. Also, going out with a bayonet charge had the risk of getting captured. But still, a suicidal banzai charge wasn't uncommon in the later stages of the war, if there was a unit of men that could still walk.

[hellheaven1987]

In many instances they were starving to death or nearly dead by Malaria. They could hardily walk in that state, let alone running and screaming while holding a gun. Also, going out with a bayonet charge had the risk of getting captured.

So you mean they had energy to blow themselves up but no energy to make a last charge??

I don't recall many battles involving Japanese in that state. What ones had large nubmers of dying Japanese troops?

Ask McArthur, he was famous for sending Australians to deal unimportant Japanese outposts with Japanese garrison that was half-starved.

[myrmidones]

So you mean they had energy to blow themselves up but no energy to make a last charge??

They had the energy for that last charge but feared being captured, so they offed themselves. A shot to the leg and bad case of disenteria and you go down alive, but probably get captured. And there was a numerical question here too, i think it was in Iwo Jima that they "needed" to kill atleast 10 enemy's before they could die in peace.

[Elmar]

The Banzai charge was not, certainly not initially, a suicide charge.
It was an effort to focus as much offensive strength in one location and then to pierce through enemy lines and roll them up.
However, in the face of liberal use of automatic weapons by Allied troops, it proved too costly and ineffective. but the Japanese never really found an alternative and thus kept using this as a last throw of the dice. A banzai charge was the tactic deemed most likely to bring about a victory, which should tell you something about how well things were going for the Japanese. It wasn't an efficient use of troops if you wanted to hurt the opponent as much as possible. But if you still wanted to win, it was the only shot you had.
And on Guadalcanal, where the Japanese elite faced inexperienced bolt action equipped Marines, they may well have thought they were in with a chance. That they kept on trying it throughout the war though, is just folly.


Not suicide as such, but something very near to it.

[myrmidones]

And let's not forget the mental state that most of these men were in, sometimes their suicide led o deaths of others, like the japanese officers who learned perfect english just to call "Medic!" and when assisted blow themselves up. But yeah most plain suicides were not exactly in a fight to the death but more in "no ammo and fear of capture" situation.

[DAVIDE]

Bushido code of Samurai, where you give your life to protect the Daimyo or the Emperor

[removeduser_4536284751384]

the whole feigning injury then blowing yourself up and killing everyone thing meant that Japanese soldiers would have an extremely hard time surrendering even if they wanted.

more dangerous certainly than the Germans.

In many instances they were starving to death or nearly dead by Malaria. They could hardily walk in that state, let alone running and screaming while holding a gun.

I don't recall many battles involving Japanese in that state. What ones had large nubmers of dying Japanese troops?

[conon394]

I know that a good portion of the Japanese casualties were from suicides, and I knew they had a high sense of honour, but why not just die fighting instead of killing yourself?

I take it you are excluding suicide plane [and sub] attacks - because they made a lot sense by the war's end given the decreasing ability of the Japanese to build modern aircraft, and train pilots.

[myrmidones]

Assuming you can still toss a grenade, you throw it out of your bunker and kill 3 out of 10 marines (in example) then the rest come in and you're gonna wish you were dead. Combat strees changes everything, especially if your physical condition isn't all good and if you were raised on the beliefs of the WWII distorted Bushido Code.

[hellheaven1987]

Assuming you can still toss a grenade, you throw it out of your bunker and kill 3 out of 10 marines (in example) then the rest come in and you're gonna wish you were dead. Combat strees changes everything, especially if your physical condition isn't all good and if you were raised on the beliefs of the WWII distorted Bushido Code.

Toss a grenade?? What?? I mean you wear a belt of grenade as suicide bomber. Who ask you to run back??

[myrmidones]

Belts of 4 second grenades? you have 4 seconds to remove the pin and run towards your enemy, they did that bt not with belts, just the grenade in hand.
But unless in extreme CQC, you'll get shot... And alot of them did that, but another guys didnt have the "guts" or mental/physical condition for that. Are you angry at them for not dying fighting? xD

[removeduser_4536284751384]

a thing they did a lot was pretend to surrender and then blow themselves up, or pretend to be injured and blow themselves up when a medic came along.

Russians did the same thing, except instead of blowing themselves up they opened fire with a sub-machine gun.