Unit Roster Development

[Augustus Lucifer]

The first order of business should be development of the unit rosters. We have a couple threads in the main area here and here which may contain useful info, I haven't checked. I've also uploaded two PDFs on Cambridge History of Japan that Yelu sent me to the Resources thread here.

Since this is a separate campaign we aren't really restricted by unit allocations. It would be nice if the units could be built in such a way that they can be directly transferred to the main game though. This means to differentiate the two factions we might have a couple unique units for each, but for those they share we want the same base model with different textures so we don't need two unit slots. There should be a fair bit of overlap between the two considering they're basically the same culture with simply affiliation differences and some regional flavor.

So we need reference images and information about army composition etc, then we need to combine this into a cohesive roster which can be modeled/skinned. Pictures of Japanese faces from young adult to middle-aged are also needed as a separate matter so the faces can be diversified, since they're a task upon themselves.

[Yelü Dashi]

If Vincent is happy, I'd like to work on the faces/hairstyles for these units. I will start over, and not base them on the previous models.

In light of the STW2 screenshots, I'm actually quite reassured. For sure, they are 'well pretty' but they also have that ETW/NTW aesthetic (& clearly its gfx engine) which portrays units as super-clean & shiny...and even use those rubbish ETW horses (far too large for real Japanese horses). I also feel the faces look somewhat Westernised, but thats just me. The armour of our period was less uniform, and MTW2's grungey aesthetic it will suit well.

Here are some general points about how I think units should look:

- The Taira units should retain a more imperial look (being centred around the capital), to contrast with the rougher, 'provincial' eastern Minamoto units - this could even have some gameplay affects in terms of better equipement.
- Where possible we should make their rosters divergent, even if its the same mesh, different weapons and different armour textures.
- Large number of AOR units e.g. at least 4 different sohei units

[danova]

ok mate, you are the head's master.
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[Yelü Dashi]

LOL. awesome. I'll get started.

[danova]

ok. If we plan a first 2-3 model i will starting the model and skin work.
I need a some reference pict and illustration...

[danova]

My suggestion is that we could detailed models (not high) like a basic medie low poly model but our units hase low unit number
low unit number...
Do you understand? Deatailed model and low team number.
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[Yelü Dashi]

Yes, I agree completely - you mean small unit sizes but higher quality models ?

Why not start on a basic foot solider wearing Haramaki armour:






1 tosei-sode
2 gyoyo
3 kusazuri
4 moro-got
5 uwa-obi
6 kawazutsumi-no-tachi
7 koshi-gatana
8 samurai-eboshi
9 oshitsuke-no-ita
10 hitatare
11 hitatare-no-hakama
12 habaki
13 sune-ate
14 ashinaga
15 se-ita (okubyo-ita)
16 age-maki

Armour detail:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

The Haramaki armor first started to appear in the 13th century, as a lower class armor for foot solder. Like the O-Yoroi and Do-Maru it became commonly used in the Genpei Wars. The Haramaki was constructed from small scales of leather or metal laced into plates with cord and lacquered although the plates were mostly larger then ones used in the O-Yoroi and the Do-Maru making it much cheaper and less time consuming to use. Then each plate where laced together to form the armor. As with the Do-Maru the weight was mainly on the shoulders but some carried some of the weight on the hips. The armor was also much more form fitting then the O-Yoroi and slightly more then the Do-Maru. It is easy to get the Do-Maru and the Haramaki confused due to the similar look, the easiest way to tell the difference is to find the opening in the armor. If it opens under the right arm it's a Do-Maru is it closes in the back it's a Haramaki. I believe that this change came about with the change in mindset at the end of the Genpi Wars and the emergence of the boshido code.

Perhaps make some placeholder heads and I can replace them

[Yelü Dashi]

The other , more common, main form of armour for retainers/foot soldiers was domuru:




1 samurai-eboshi
2 moro-gote
3 yoroi-no-hitatare
4 koshigatana
5 naginata
6 sune-ate
7 midare-o
8 gyoyo
9 Oshitsuke-no-ita
10 kusazuri
11 habaki
12 hattoh-gutsu
13 yoroi-no-hitatare-no shimo
14 kuro-ito-mune-akaodoshi

[danova]

Nice units...
Bigger pict maybe?
.

[danova]

Yes, I agree completely - you mean small unit sizes but higher quality models ?

Yes, exactly!
Basic, normal models with more detailed elements...

do you send me your old minamoto unit models and skin?

.

[danova]

basic rooster for every factions: (draft version)

- Foot solider
- Retainers/foot soldiers

.

[danova]

double post! sorry
.

[Yelü Dashi]

Basically the two units I posted are the same class, one uses swords and wears Haramaki armour and the other wield naginatas and wear domaru but they are both footsoldiers.

Can someone help with accurate unit names ? The only term I found was shimobe (下部), who served by the side of government officials during Heian period (just before the start of the mod) they were sort of like police. There definately called weren't Ashigaru in the 12th century.

[Yelü Dashi]

Regarding colouring of the armour here is a post from public forum:

armour lacing colour and patterns didn't signify any particular clan - the same traditional colours and patterns could be found on warriors of opposing sides in this period. As a result, war chronicles such as the Heike Monogatari (The Tale of the Taira Clan) mention the use of small streamers in the colour of the clan alliance attached to the shoulder plates and the back of the helmet - they looked like miniature banners and often had mon or kanji slogans on them.

However there's one interesting note in this chronicle; the "men of Ise" (province) were said to favour armour laced in different shades of red. Ise was the home province of the main branch of the Taira clan from the time of Kiyomori so perhaps there was some clan significance.

We might want to decide that the Taira = Red & Minamoto = Blue (as the faction symbols do) or we could mix it up.