Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 54

Thread: Movements within the Islamic World

Hybrid View

Previous Post Previous Post   Next Post Next Post
  1. #1
    Farnan's Avatar Saviors of the Japanese
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Right behind you starring over your shoulder.
    Posts
    31,638

    Default Movements within the Islamic World

    There are many movements within the Islamic World that do not make the news in the Western World. Many of these movements are litteraly at war with each other and define geopolitics in that violatile region. Here are just some of them (note I don't know much about Africa or Malaysia so movements particular to there won't be mentioned, and this is not a definitive list merely an idea of how non-monolithic that community is):

    Ethno-Political (movements that combine ethnicity and politics):

    Pan-Turkism: The unofficial foreign policy of Turkey this movement runs the gammut from those who desire a Turkic Empire to those who believe Turkey should simply work to support Turkic ethnic groups in other nations. Note Turkic ethnic groups include, but are not limited to, Turks, Azeris, Uzbeks and Uighurs.

    Pan-Persianism: An unofficial part of the foreign policy of Iran, at least during the 1990s, this is the idea that Iran should be the big brother to other Persian ethnic groups and support them in issues. Persian ethnic groups under this definition include, but are not limited to, Tajiks, Hazara and most Iranians. Note it does not include Kurds, Pashto or Balochs that are related to the Persian language group.

    Pan-Arabism: A movement that rises and falls with time, this movement seeks to unite the Arab world into a single block. Espoused by Nassar and Saddam Hussein it was especially powerful from 1914 till 1978 when the Camp David Accords were signed. During that time it was the dominant movement in the Arab World.

    Kurdish Nationalism: Should be well known, this movement seeks to create a Kurdish state out of territory in Turkey, Iraq, Iran and Syria. A major movement among the Kurdish people.

    Pashto Nationalism: Seeks to place Afghanistan under Pashto control and incorporate Pashto lands in Pakistan into Afghanistan. Was official policy of Afghanistan till 1979, and the dominant movement among Pashto since the Durand line was created.

    Baloch Nationalism: Seeks to create a Baloch state out of territory in Pakistan, Afghanistan and Iran. A dominant belief among Balochs today, and cause of multiple rebellions in Pakistan and Iran.

    Albanian Nationalism: Wish to create a Greater Albania. Don't know how popular this is.

    Pan-Islam: Seeks to remove ethnic lines from Islam. Extreme groups seek to create a Caliphate from all the Islamic nations.


    Religious: (this will be extemely simplified, whole books have been written about this)

    Secularism: The idea of religion being a private matter, sees religion much as Westerners see it. Dominant among the Kurds, Balochs, Uzbeks, many Turks, Albanians and others.

    Modernism: The idea that Islam should be changed to take in effect societal changes. They are not secularists and believe that Islam has a place in the day to day life. This is biggest in Indonesia where many prominent scholars follow this.

    Conservative: What the West calls moderate Muslim. Women wear scarves but would never imagine wearing burqas. They are the dominant group in the Muslim world.

    Revisionists: Belief that Islam has been corrupted and so the Muslim World must return to the old ways or perish. What the West calls fundamentalism. Includes the Muslim Brotherhood, Wahabbism and Al Qaeda.

    Political:

    Democratic: Self-Explanatory. The Green Movement in Iran, Lebanon in general, Turkey in general, Many in Iraq, the Jordinian Monarchy, many movements, some underground, in the Middle East.

    Anti-Democratic: Believe democracy will not work in Islam. I don't need to list movements and governments like that.

    Tribalism: Only placed here because this is the best place I can fit it. Its the idea of adopting Tribal standards for politics and religion, along with identifying with tribe over nation. Parts of Iraq, Pashtos and some other groups fit here.

    Anti-Tribalism: The opposite of the above, the Taliban are one example of that.

    Political Islam: The idea Islam has a place in government. Does not mean fundamentalism. For example the Tajiks in Afghanistan favored political Islam, but also favored women's education and oppose the Burqa.

    Secularism: As the religious definition.

    Anti-Westernization: Believe that the Islamic world is getting too Westernized and will lose its character. Mostly popular among those who would lose out under such conditions.

    Socialism/Marxism: Same as in the West. Nassar pushed this, as does the Baath Party.


    Now this was a woefully incomplete listing, but the idea is to give an idea of the many movements in the Islamic World.

    Many groups and organizations do not belong to one movement but to many. Al Qaeda for example is Pan-Islamic, Revisionist, Political Islam and Anti-Westernization. The Taliban are Pashto Nationalist, Revisionist, Anti-Tribalist (officially, though in practice are many times Tribalist, especially the current Pakistani Taliban), Political Islam and Anti-Westernization.
    “The nation that will insist upon drawing a broad line of demarcation between the fighting man and the thinking man is liable to find its fighting done by fools and its thinking by cowards.”

    —Sir William Francis Butler

  2. #2
    Ozzmosis's Avatar Domesticus
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    London
    Posts
    2,015

    Default Re: Movements within the Islamic World

    Pan-Turkism is AFAIK not any part of (even unofficial) Turkish foreign policy.
    Pan-Turkism (and Turanism) is something left to fascist, murdering gangs (Bozkurts/Greywolves), and rascist, deluded, Romantic idiots. It is akin to the Nazi Aryan ideology, except more ludicrous.
    Good post, though!

  3. #3
    Farnan's Avatar Saviors of the Japanese
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Right behind you starring over your shoulder.
    Posts
    31,638

    Default Re: Movements within the Islamic World

    Quote Originally Posted by Ozzmosis View Post
    Pan-Turkism is AFAIK not any part of (even unofficial) Turkish foreign policy.
    Pan-Turkism (and Turanism) is something left to fascist, murdering gangs (Bozkurts/Greywolves), and rascist, deluded, Romantic idiots. It is akin to the Nazi Aryan ideology, except more ludicrous.
    Good post, though!
    Actually it is, though not the extremist version of it. Turkey as part of its foreign policy provides support for Turkic groups throughout the world. One example is its heavy support of Dostrum and his Uzbeks in Afghanistan, and Turkish aid to Centrial Asian Turkic states.
    “The nation that will insist upon drawing a broad line of demarcation between the fighting man and the thinking man is liable to find its fighting done by fools and its thinking by cowards.”

    —Sir William Francis Butler

  4. #4
    Ozzmosis's Avatar Domesticus
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    London
    Posts
    2,015

    Default Re: Movements within the Islamic World

    In the OP you said that it was with the aim of creating a Pan-Turkic Empire. I doubt Erdogan wants a pan-turkic empire. Sending aid to people of similiar (perceived) ethnicity is merely a show of friendliness. How would it be if Britain or the US never supported each other or Europe?

  5. #5
    Farnan's Avatar Saviors of the Japanese
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Right behind you starring over your shoulder.
    Posts
    31,638

    Default Re: Movements within the Islamic World

    As I said it runs the gammut from those who wish to create an empire to those who believe Turks should support Turks.
    Edit: There are also general nationalist movements, I only put the ones the span borders.
    Last edited by Farnan; June 08, 2010 at 06:56 PM.
    “The nation that will insist upon drawing a broad line of demarcation between the fighting man and the thinking man is liable to find its fighting done by fools and its thinking by cowards.”

    —Sir William Francis Butler

  6. #6
    Ozzmosis's Avatar Domesticus
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    London
    Posts
    2,015

    Default Re: Movements within the Islamic World

    I'm sorry, but what is a gammut? I looked it up in a dictionary and googled it but nothing came up.

  7. #7
    Farnan's Avatar Saviors of the Japanese
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Right behind you starring over your shoulder.
    Posts
    31,638

    Default Re: Movements within the Islamic World

    I might have misspelled it. I mean there are Pan-Turks who support a Turkic Empire and there are Pan-Turks who merely thinK Turkey should help other Turkic people.
    “The nation that will insist upon drawing a broad line of demarcation between the fighting man and the thinking man is liable to find its fighting done by fools and its thinking by cowards.”

    —Sir William Francis Butler

  8. #8
    Jingles's Avatar Praefectus
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Northamptonshire
    Posts
    6,761

    Default Re: Movements within the Islamic World

    You seem to be quite the expert on the middle-east, Farnan. Good post.

  9. #9
    Farnan's Avatar Saviors of the Japanese
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Right behind you starring over your shoulder.
    Posts
    31,638

    Default Re: Movements within the Islamic World

    No, I'm not. Most of it are from a few books
    “The nation that will insist upon drawing a broad line of demarcation between the fighting man and the thinking man is liable to find its fighting done by fools and its thinking by cowards.”

    —Sir William Francis Butler

  10. #10
    Jingles's Avatar Praefectus
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Northamptonshire
    Posts
    6,761

    Default Re: Movements within the Islamic World

    Relatively speaking, I should have said. Relative to the average poster that is.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Movements within the Islamic World

    Now, we should expound on each section's history up until the present day and, most importantly, their relation to the other movements.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Movements within the Islamic World

    An interesting start Farnan. I would point out that in the case of Kurdish nationalism, there is an overlap with tribalism. In fact it's possible to confuse Kurdish tribalism with Kurdish nationalism, at least in the Turkish and Iraqi cases. Most of the more aggressively 'Kurdish' people tend to also belong to Kurdish tribes that are historically notorious for being rebellious. Most of the more conformist (for lack of a better word) tribes are generally fairly well assimilated into Turkish, Iraqi, Syrian, and Iranian societies. I would also point out that these tribes make up the vast majority of the Kurdish population.

    The spread of Kurdish nationalism can also be seen in this context, owing as much to inter-tribal politics (and alliances) as to various government efforts to confront the movement.
    Son of Sétanta
    Protected by the Legion of Rahl
    Proud corporal in the house of God Emperor Nicholas
    I am a spark, soon to become a flame, and grow into an inferno...

  13. #13

    Default Re: Movements within the Islamic World

    Nice list Farnan.

    And I would say that Modernism and Political Islam are very big in Pakistan these days.

  14. #14
    hellheaven1987's Avatar Comes Domesticorum
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    The Hell called Conscription
    Posts
    35,615

    Default Re: Movements within the Islamic World

    Farnan, many of movements you list are either outdated or recieve very limit support today, hence most of them are not reported by media today. For example, pan-Turkish movement was, actually, both a parallel and counter theory of Ottomanism, and reached its high in late 19th Century/early 20th Century. It slowly faded away during 1930s, and become pretty much a minor movement within Turkey today (although it seems there is a small coming back recently). There are other pan-Turkish movements in Central Asia, but most of them are not releated with Turkish nationalism in Turkey.
    Quote Originally Posted by Markas View Post
    Hellheaven, sometimes you remind me of King Canute trying to hold back the tide, except without the winning parable.
    Quote Originally Posted by Diocle View Post
    Cameron is midway between Black Rage and .. European Union ..

  15. #15
    Farnan's Avatar Saviors of the Japanese
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Right behind you starring over your shoulder.
    Posts
    31,638

    Default Re: Movements within the Islamic World

    Quote Originally Posted by hellheaven1987 View Post
    Farnan, many of movements you list are either outdated or recieve very limit support today, hence most of them are not reported by media today. For example, pan-Turkish movement was, actually, both a parallel and counter theory of Ottomanism, and reached its high in late 19th Century/early 20th Century. It slowly faded away during 1930s, and become pretty much a minor movement within Turkey today (although it seems there is a small coming back recently). There are other pan-Turkish movements in Central Asia, but most of them are not releated with Turkish nationalism in Turkey.
    It did, but it came back in the 1990s with the fall of the USSR. After the fall of the USSR and the Afghan Civil War Turkey decided it should take a leadership role and support the newly independent Turkic states and Turkic groups in Afghanistan. However few hold the extremist view of a Pan-Turkic state. Its like the unofficial White English Speaking alliance of the UK, Canada, US, Australia and New Zealand.

    Babur: Very few Pan-Turks support a Pan-Turk Empire, same with Pan-Iranians. And the idea of an United Arab Republic died with the death of the United Arab Republic. Instead they support the idea that all Arab nations should form a united front (with their own country in the lead of course). This was seen in the Arab-Isreali Wars, the Arab Oil Embargo and the Iraq-Iran War. However two major blows weakened it: the signing of the Camp David Accords that divided the Arab World over how to treat Israel and the Iraqi Invasion of Kuwait which pitted Arab against Arab.
    Last edited by Farnan; June 09, 2010 at 11:37 AM.
    “The nation that will insist upon drawing a broad line of demarcation between the fighting man and the thinking man is liable to find its fighting done by fools and its thinking by cowards.”

    —Sir William Francis Butler

  16. #16
    Babur's Avatar ز آفتاب درخشان ستاره می
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Agra,Hindustan
    Posts
    15,405

    Default Re: Movements within the Islamic World

    Quote Originally Posted by Farnan View Post
    Babur: Very few Pan-Turks support a Pan-Turk Empire, same with Pan-Iranians. And the idea of an United Arab Republic died with the death of the United Arab Republic. Instead they support the idea that all Arab nations should form a united front (with their own country in the lead of course). This was seen in the Arab-Isreali Wars, the Arab Oil Embargo and the Iraq-Iran War. However two major blows weakened it: the signing of the Camp David Accords that divided the Arab World over how to treat Israel and the Iraqi Invasion of Kuwait which pitted Arab against Arab.
    Well I am not a fan of these Pan-racial movements but what annoys me the most are their attempts to re-write history
    Last edited by Babur; June 10, 2010 at 08:14 AM.
    Under the patronage of Gertrudius!

  17. #17

    Default Re: Movements within the Islamic World

    Quote Originally Posted by Babur View Post
    Well I am not a fan of these Pan-racial movements but what annoys the most are their attempts to re-write history
    Damn, even they do that? I thought only some Asian nationalists, some black nationalists, some British muslims (Shakespeare was a muslim, LOL Sheik Spear) and everyone in Liberal facist hippie land Hollywood did this.

    Can someone tell me wether or not pan-Islamic beliefs are wide-spread/dominant in Saudi Arabia?

    Can anyone also tell me how, generally speaking, muslims in the Middle-East view China? As a friend, as a threat? a useful toy to ward of the Imperialist West?
    Why is it that certain people think they're above criticism and satire?

  18. #18
    hellheaven1987's Avatar Comes Domesticorum
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    The Hell called Conscription
    Posts
    35,615

    Default Re: Movements within the Islamic World

    Quote Originally Posted by Farnan View Post
    It did, but it came back in the 1990s with the fall of the USSR. After the fall of the USSR and the Afghan Civil War Turkey decided it should take a leadership role and support the newly independent Turkic states and Turkic groups in Afghanistan. However few hold the extremist view of a Pan-Turkic state. Its like the unofficial White English Speaking alliance of the UK, Canada, US, Australia and New Zealand.
    That is strickly not a pan-Turkish movement, and many Central Asian countries trash Turkey for such role and instead claim they should be the leader of Turks...

    Quote Originally Posted by Farnan View Post
    Babur: Very few Pan-Turks support a Pan-Turk Empire, same with Pan-Iranians. And the idea of an United Arab Republic died with the death of the United Arab Republic. Instead they support the idea that all Arab nations should form a united front (with their own country in the lead of course). This was seen in the Arab-Isreali Wars, the Arab Oil Embargo and the Iraq-Iran War. However two major blows weakened it: the signing of the Camp David Accords that divided the Arab World over how to treat Israel and the Iraqi Invasion of Kuwait which pitted Arab against Arab.
    Well, pan-Arab movement is still continuing today, although in more shadow politic form. To be more specific, the current/past two claimers for such leadership are Syria and Saudi Arabia, and both have no desire to backdown such claims even recently.
    Quote Originally Posted by Markas View Post
    Hellheaven, sometimes you remind me of King Canute trying to hold back the tide, except without the winning parable.
    Quote Originally Posted by Diocle View Post
    Cameron is midway between Black Rage and .. European Union ..

  19. #19
    Their Law's Avatar Protector Domesticus
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    York
    Posts
    4,249

    Default Re: Movements within the Islamic World

    Very interesting, hopefully this will help towards dispelling the assumption that 'muslims' are a homogeneous political and social group.
    "You have a decent ear for notes
    but you can't yet appreciate harmony."

  20. #20
    Babur's Avatar ز آفتاب درخشان ستاره می
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Agra,Hindustan
    Posts
    15,405

    Default Re: Movements within the Islamic World

    Great thread Farnan

    Pan Turkists want this



    Pan-Iranists want this:



    Pan-Arabists probably want this:

    Under the patronage of Gertrudius!

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •