Where's the stinky, spitting camels?

[Bonapartist]

Just curious about the apparent lack of camel troops, maybe I just haven't been to the right neck of the world yet. I miss MTW 1, ha

[Anubis88]

There are no camels in EB. Camels just weren't used enough as war-beast... They were mostly for carrying baggage. Maybe we will have a camel unit for EB II? we will see

[Milan Rastislav Štefánik]

There are no camels in EB. Camels just weren't used enough as war-beast... They were mostly for carrying baggage. Maybe we will have a camel unit for EB II? we will see

Think so, For the Sabyn faction?

[Moros]

The common opinion of the scientific world is that the Sabaeans did not use camels in battle except for transportation needs. Personally I have the feeling that this might not necessarily has to be the truth, but there's indeed very little pointing towards a use of camel riders in battle. However certain more nomadic peoples living in Arabia at the time did use them Especially the tribes living on the western incense routes a long the Red Sea. Either way in EB they were planned as a regional unit of low priority but at the end didn't make it. In EB II they will probably be featured however as regional, not that they are of highest priority this time but neither of low priority, as for the aforementioned region they were of importance.

[Odenathus]

I'm studying history, and at the moment working on Palmyra, and that particular caravan city had during the second century AD a cohort of Palmyrene Dromedarii. So I think it's a safe guess that the Romans, seeing the advantages of such a force in desert regions over horses ( higher platform for shooting, scare horses with their odour, can manage longer without water, etc...) instated them as a regular force, after being used to at least the same extent by the locals. So a type of camel archer could, although somewhat unsure, be featured in EB on historical grounds, and it would be a good way to create some diversity in the roster.

Odenat

[Anubis88]

I'm studying history, and at the moment working on Palmyra, and that particular caravan city had during the second century AD a cohort of Palmyrene Dromedarii. So I think it's a safe guess that the Romans, seeing the advantages of such a force in desert regions over horses ( higher platform for shooting, scare horses with their odour, can manage longer without water, etc...) instated them as a regular force, after being used to at least the same extent by the locals. So a type of camel archer could, although somewhat unsure, be featured in EB on historical grounds, and it would be a good way to create some diversity in the roster.

Odenat

I've never heard of Romans using camels in battle. If the Palmyrans had them, that doesn't mean that the Romans used them after seeing them.

Rome didn't have much full-scale wars in the desert, so they wouldn't use the camels for their desert campaings as you suggested, simply because there were practicaly no "desert" campaigns... Unless you can call that the middle east at this time ( Altough i've hear that Crassus didn't really had to go through so much desert before Carrhae, it was just a Roman way to tell that the soldiers were tired at the battle.)

If you have a definitive source of Romans using Camels as war-beast, please share it... It's impossible to asume what you've said.

For instance, the Romans saw how effective a falx or rhomphaia were, but they've never used them themselves.
Also the Romans started using cataphracts 200 years after they got their ass kicked by them

[Moros]

I'm studying history, and at the moment working on Palmyra, and that particular caravan city had during the second century AD a cohort of Palmyrene Dromedarii. So I think it's a safe guess that the Romans, seeing the advantages of such a force in desert regions over horses ( higher platform for shooting, scare horses with their odour, can manage longer without water, etc...) instated them as a regular force, after being used to at least the same extent by the locals. So a type of camel archer could, although somewhat unsure, be featured in EB on historical grounds, and it would be a good way to create some diversity in the roster.

Odenat

Palmyra did indeed have dromedarii in use. The Sassanids or was it Parthians (unsure) also experimented with them. Either way many of the more nomadic tribes used them quite a lot. Josephus tells even about a battle between the Nabataeans and the Jews, where the nabataeans camels drove the whole jewish army into a valley where they go slaughtered. I don't recall the exact passage by head, but if you don't believe me, I can look it up again. Camels also appeared in other major battles and were common in smaller arabian confilcts from the early times of the Qedar and Tayma to after our start date.

[mamik_yev_konak]

There are camels in EB actually. If you look close enough at the trade routes in the levant you might see them.

[Anubis88]

Maybe it was nominally part of the Empire... I don't know precisely... But i really don't think we can talk about a Roman army in this context... More of an allied army

[MisterFred]

And to be technical, 2nd century AD is outside of the EB timeframe. Which means that regional Camel unit on the Arabian Red Sea coast makes some sense if we stretch the evidence a bit by assuming the Palmyrans adopted the habits of Arabian tribes. But not as a unit anywhere else.

It would be nice to have specific passages though.

[Moros]

And to be technical, 2nd century AD is outside of the EB timeframe. Which means that regional Camel unit on the Arabian Red Sea coast makes some sense if we stretch the evidence a bit by assuming the Palmyrans adopted the habits of Arabian tribes. But not as a unit anywhere else.

It would be nice to have specific passages though.

We don't have to assume anything, we know they were used in our time frame and in the Red Sea area.

Anyways:

but as he had joined battle with Obedas, king of the Arabians, and fell into an ambush in the places that were rugged and difficult to be traveled over, he was thrown down into a deep valley, by the multitude of the camels at Gadurn, a village of Gilead, and hardly escaped with his life. From thence he fled to Jerusalem, where, besides his other ill success, the nation insulted him, and he fought against them for six years, and slew no fewer than fifty thousand of them.

Then follows a rugged coast, and after that are some bays and a country belonging to nomads, who live by their camels [the modern Hejaz, opposite Mecca and Medina]. They fight from their backs; they travel upon them, and subsist on their milk and flesh. A river flows through their country, which brings down gold dust, but they are ignorant how to make any use of it. They are called Debae; some of them are nomads, others farmers. I do not mention the greater part of the names of these nations, on account of the obscurity of the people, and because the pronunciation of them is strange and uncouth.

These are far from the only mentions. And we also have pictoral evidence as well.

[Slaytaninc]

Camels have soft feet in comparison to horses, right?

[mamik_yev_konak]

Camels have soft feet in comparison to horses, right?

Horses are more sure-footed than camels. Although some people may dispute this, there is no way that a smooth camel foot can have as much traction as a horse hoof, especially on muddy or icy surfaces. However, a camel does have one trick in precarious terrain -- it can drop to it's knees and crawl over the steep spots. And the soft camel foot is more environmentally friendly -- it will leave hardly a track, where the sharp horse hoof will cut up the trail (by the way, camel droppings are also more innocuous and less offensive to "non-animal" people on the trail).

From http://www.camelphotos.com/CamelVsHorses.html

[Brapbrapbap]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


Camels are AWESOME.

[MisterFred]

The fact Moros can pull a few quotes out at will when he needs it is why EB is so awesome.

[Praefectus praetorio]

Romans used camels. Trajan raised a Ala I Ulpia dromedariorum milliaria wich had 1000 men. source. source2.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[KozaK101]

Romans used almost anything they could to suppliment thier armies, even Huns were used against the Vandals, plus War elephants were used asfar as Wales, so more likey than not they used camels even if evidence is lacking, though Praefectus has given some good evidence ( I should know, got the book ).

Just to throw in some more, Cyrus the Great used camels against King Croesus of Lydia's cavalry at the battle of Thymbra. He organised them from his baggage train, and they frightened/distressed the Lydian horses.