Boii,Dacians,Marcomanni and Bohemia

[Frostwulf]

Most authors (Cunliffe, Crisan, etc.) I have read previously have said that the Boii had met a brutal end by the Dacians, which they always point to the writings in Strabo. I always figured that included Bohemia, but it seems that I may have misunderstood what the above authors were intending.

The Boii were pushed eastwards to the middle Danube by the German Marcomanni in the first century BC, there to suffer at the hands of the Dacians, then approaching the summit of their power. pg.23

I can only figure this came from Tacitus:

The Marcomani are outstanding in glory and strength, and even obtained their very homeland through valour, having long ago expelled the Boii; nor do the Naristi and Quadi fall short. 42.1

http://books.google.com/books?id=PZZ...ET6BqtwBbPqmCI
and this one:
http://books.google.com/books?id=BVU...20boii&f=false
This one says about 78 B.C. the Suevic Marcomanni were there.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

http://books.google.com/books?id=w00...omanni&f=false

This one by Koch is also interesting:
http://books.google.com/books?id=f89...ohemia&f=false

Even in Wikipedia there is some information, though as usual poorly documented:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boii

Over two centuries later Julius Caesar recorded the final displacement of the Boii from the Danube region by the Germanic Suebi, the loss of most of their population in battle with the Romans, and the dispersal of the survivors among other tribes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bohemia

Roman authors provide the first clear reference to this area as Boiohaemum, from Germanic Boi-Heim, "home of the Boii", a Celtic people. As part of the territory often crossed during the Migration Period by major Germanic and Slavic tribes, the western half was conquered and settled from the 1st century BC by Germanic (probably Suebic) peoples including the Marcomanni; the elite of some Boii then migrated west to modern Switzerland and southeastern Gaul. Those Boii that remained in the eastern part were eventually absorbed by the Marcomanni. Part of the Marcomanni, renamed the Bavarians (Baiuvarum), later migrated to the southwest. Although the leading tribes changed, there was a large degree of continuity in the actual population, and at no time was there a wholesale depopulation or change in ethnic stock.

It seems that the Marcomanni (prior to Maroboduus) had defeated the Boii and pushed them out. It seems from some of the above books (though written along time ago) that the Boii were weakened from this.
My question is how much would the expulsion of the Bohemian Boii would have had on the rest of the Boii in Hungary?

[Getwulf]

My question is how much would the expulsion of the Bohemian Boii would have had on the rest of the Boii in Hungary?

Good question... It is very hard to answer... The only thing I can say is that I've always thought that some Hungarian people looked Celtic. I know that doesn't mean much...

[diegis]

Interesting indeed, i read somewhere in those links that germans ocupied just half of Bohemia first, which isnt quite a big area. I am not sure however in which time was happened that, before, during or after boii war with dacians?

[Mulattothrasher]

It seems that the Marcomanni (prior to Maroboduus) had defeated the Boii and pushed them out. It seems from some of the above books (though written along time ago) that the Boii were weakened from this.
My question is how much would the expulsion of the Bohemian Boii would have had on the rest of the Boii in Hungary?

Well thats the thing, they were not expelled from Bohemia/Moravia. The Boii in Bohemia were fine until faced with the Roman and Marcomanni expansions, while the victory of Burebista over the more eastern Boii was in the upper Pannonian areas (south of Bratislava), and not in the farther northern territory of the Boii in Bohemia or Moravia. The Dacians only briefly controlled regions of Slovakia, and did not penetrate further. The Boii/Celts did not arrive into certain regions of Hungary until the mid 3rd century when Celtic burials began showing up among the resident populations there and the previous Scytho-Thracian tombs stopped appearing c. 250 B.C. Also, there was a light degree of fusion between the two when this came into being, but not enough blending to develop a Celtic-Thracian/Celto-Scytian culture firmly as it remained wholly La Tene with a few region assimilation of native ways. This is the time when the ornate 'Hungarian style' scabbards appear for the Celtic elite.

Overall, what what I have read, theres a lot of uncertainty over the Hungarian regions in the 1st c. B.C. period, but it looks like there was a mix of Celtic and Dacian there somewhere during this time, just the La Tene military items are prominent, and Dacian finds are mainly pottery. The Boii in southern Germany remained in their homelands and the only mention of them 'leaving', besides those lost in the defeat, were the 32,000 that accompanied the Helvetti. The Romans continued to use political divisions of territory denoting the Boii as being present in the Bohemian regions and the name survived as it's own designation until the 2nd century A.D.

[Getwulf]

Well thats the thing, they were not expelled from Bohemia/Moravia. The Boii in Bohemia were fine until faced with the Roman and Marcomanni expansions, while the victory of Burebista over the more eastern Boii was in the upper Pannonian areas (south of Bratislava), and not in the farther northern territory of the Boii in Bohemia or Moravia. The Dacians only briefly controlled regions of Slovakia, and did not penetrate further. The Boii/Celts did not arrive into certain regions of Hungary until the mid 3rd century when Celtic burials began showing up among the resident populations there and the previous Scytho-Thracian tombs stopped appearing c. 250 B.C. Also, there was a light degree of fusion between the two when this came into being, but not enough blending to develop a Celtic-Thracian/Celto-Scytian culture firmly as it remained wholly La Tene with a few region assimilation of native ways. This is the time when the ornate 'Hungarian style' scabbards appear for the Celtic elite.

Overall, what what I have read, theres a lot of uncertainty over the Hungarian regions in the 1st c. B.C. period, but it looks like there was a mix of Celtic and Dacian there somewhere during this time, just the La Tene military items are prominent, and Dacian finds are mainly pottery. The Boii in southern Germany remained in their homelands and the only mention of them 'leaving', besides those lost in the defeat, were the 32,000 that accompanied the Helvetti. The Romans continued to use political divisions of territory denoting the Boii as being present in the Bohemian regions and the name survived as it's own designation until the 2nd century A.D.

Yes there are quite a bit of Celtic cultural traits left over... See this Celtic helmet from Romania...

http://books.google.ca/books?id=Lwt5...0Dacia&f=false

This is the best that I could do for pictures. It is a helm with a bird attached to the top.