Why wasnt there more resistance to the Holocaust?

[Dr. Oza]

i know there were many such as the bielski brothers (spelling?) or the warsaw uprising

but after watching many documentaries on the holocaust

it seems most jews simply thought that each time they lost rights, that was the worst of it, until , of course, they were sent to camps

i wanted to ask why there wasnt a massive armed resistance among jewish groups in europe, such as that seen in yugoslavia, russia, france etc..

why didnt they fight back?

honestly, if it was me, i would die rather than give one step

[Nik]

i know there were many such as the bielski brothers (spelling?) or the warsaw uprising

but after watching many documentaries on the holocaust

it seems most jews simply thought that each time they lost rights, that was the worst of it, until , of course, they were sent to camps

Progroms and disenfranchisiation was nothing new to the jewish communities in europe, most had held equal rights fro 2 or 3 Generations. But nobody was prepared to believe the singlemindedness of the nazis in their goal (or better, their lunacy to try to kill 12 Million people).
It was a gradual process, starting with boykotts and the removal of jews from official positions, followed by physical attacks on their property, trying to make them leave. The final decision to really kill them all was only taken in 1942, and even then this was kept secret from the population at large.
So they gave up little things in order to save their lives, until the last thing that could be taken was their lives.

honestly, if it was me, i would die rather than give one step

Strong words, but spoken from behind a computer, they sound hollow.
If you have to face 5 Nazi Goons and you know they love nothing more than break every bone in your body, your shoot you, your wife and your children, cooperation suddenly looks a lot more appealing.
Some jews did resist. The germans killed them, and continued just the same with their politics. Heroic last stands or statements by refusing to yield did not impress them much.

[René Artois]

It's the whole idea of "we won't stoop to their level". I also wouldn't be surprised if most were used to it, the Jews have been kicked about like dogs in Europe for centuries before hand, this wasn't really anything different, (until the camps started of course).

As for your "I would rather die than give one step". Well they did. Those who refused to go to the work camps did die.

[Valandur]

Haven't you read about how the SS dealt with rebellions?
In 1942 when one of the Nazi Leaders (forgot his name) was assasinated by Czech partisans, the SS slaughtered the entire Male population of a nearby village and then sent all the woman and children to the detention centres.
When the French Resistance Leader was captured in Paris, he and 100 other randomly selected citizens were executed and later in 1944, the SS massacred the entire population of a French village for no apparent reason other than existing. After the Warsaw Uprising, 300 000 Poles were killed or sent to the detention centres and 90% of the city was burnt to the ground.
When a person at a detention centre escaped, the SS would pick 10 random people and execute them. In the Jewish Ghetto of Warsaw, 4000 Jews were killed immediately and the rest were sent to the gas chambers.

Now imagine if the Jews had a major uprising. The Warsaw Uprising were mostly just normal citizens and only a few were Jewish and 300 000 were killed or deported there. Now imagine if the Jews did something of that scale, every Jew in occupied Europe rose up against their German Oppressors. How do you think the Germans would've reacted? They would've killed every single one of them, and although most of them were destined to die anyway, the Germans would've probably destroyed everything.

Now rep me for contributing and attempting to sound dramatic

[Darkhorse]

Depends what you mean by resistance. Even within Germany itself there was resistance of some sorts. Resistance definitely did exist, although it is hard for historians to actually pin point the scale of the undertakings, who resisted (excluding noteable events and groups), for what reasons, and how they did it. Which is unusual, the one thing the Nazi Regime was good at was keeping records. Why historians can't find this sort of information (or the famous order hitler may or may not have given) we don't know. However this is another kettle of fish. So to the point in question.

Not only do you have active resistance akin to the Belski's, you also had passive resistance, bearing in mind direct protest was usually a big no no, non comforming proved popular, as even something as simple as bunking a few days off of work could be considered resistance, and in modern studies on the regime, is considered to be resistance. When I visited Transportation Kamp Vught, in the Netherlands, they were saying how Siemens (I think) were using the camp inmates in their factories to produce lights and other equipment for the German Heer, however, once the inmates had produced the equipment, instead of Siemens sending it to the front, it was sent to another Dutch camp, where there was another Siemens plant, which deemed the equipment faulty, and the inmates there took the equipment apart, and sent the parts back to Vught for construction. Resistance that actually hindered the German war effort!

[Hresvelgr]

Not only do you have active resistance akin to the Belski's, you also had passive resistance, bearing in mind direct protest was usually a big no no, non comforming proved popular, as even something as simple as bunking a few days off of work could be considered resistance, and in modern studies on the regime, is considered to be resistance. When I visited Transportation Kamp Vught, in the Netherlands, they were saying how Siemens (I think) were using the camp inmates in their factories to produce lights and other equipment for the German Heer, however, once the inmates had produced the equipment, instead of Siemens sending it to the front, it was sent to another Dutch camp, where there was another Siemens plant, which deemed the equipment faulty, and the inmates there took the equipment apart, and sent the parts back to Vught for construction. Resistance that actually hindered the German war effort!

Heh, reminds me of how the Poles forced to work in factories fixing tanks by the Nazis would often (when nobody was looking) take an important gear for a Panther tank, chip a tooth off it, then put it back on with a weak glue. Contributed greatly to the horrible reputation of the Panther's reliability.

[Lennert]

Ah, come on man. You post thát and then you go repwhoring afterwards? You might have gotten rep if not for that last sentence.

Not only do you have active resistance akin to the Belski's, you also had passive resistance, bearing in mind direct protest was usually a big no no, non comforming proved popular, as even something as simple as bunking a few days off of work could be considered resistance, and in modern studies on the regime, is considered to be resistance. When I visited Transportation Kamp Vught, in the Netherlands, they were saying how Siemens (I think) were using the camp inmates in their factories to produce lights and other equipment for the German Heer, however, once the inmates had produced the equipment, instead of Siemens sending it to the front, it was sent to another Dutch camp, where there was another Siemens plant, which deemed the equipment faulty, and the inmates there took the equipment apart, and sent the parts back to Vught for construction. Resistance that actually hindered the German war effort!

Wow, I actually live in Vught and have been to Kamp Vught myself several times but haven't heard that story yet. Thanks for sharing! and +rep

[Darkhorse]

Ah, come on man. You post thát and then you go repwhoring afterwards? You might have gotten rep if not for that last sentence.



Wow, I actually live in Vught and have been to Kamp Vught myself several times but haven't heard that story yet. Thanks for sharing! and +rep

Awesome, thanks Ask about it, might be even written in the centre there, it was Siemens or Erricson or some company which in the modern day is famous for mobile phones.

Also, Vught, funny place, tourist centre in the middle of a Dutch army base, 100 yards from a max security prison. Makes me giggle, when I went there I didnt even see a guard! Surprised me how laid back the area was, considering what was next door to it!

[Darkhorse]

Should give him some just for the damn cheek!

[Finnduil]

Because the numbers are ridiculously exaggerated with Zionist propaganda.

[Orko]

Because the numbers are ridiculously exaggerated with Zionist propaganda.

Those damn J00s always lyin' to us.

[Lennert]

Yes, well it isn't a max security prison for nothing ofcourse Sometimes they've got armored vehicles patrolling around it if someone of special risk is in detention there.

[Senno]

Discussion of other members suspension is off-topic. Kindly refrain, and remain on-topic.

[RomanSoldier9001]

Mainly because Anti Semitism was the hot thing back in day in Europe not only in Germans but pretty much all Europeans perhaps with exception of British and Soviets(altougth this debtble).

[Garbarsardar]

why didnt they fight back?

Because the numbers are ridiculously exaggerated with Zionist propaganda.

That is an excellent answer.

It also answers the following questions:

• Why the tomato crossed the road?
• What came first, the chicken or the egg?
• Darling, have you seen my coffee mug?

and

• Do you know what time is it?

I challenge you to find an answer that answers more questions than this one.

But, to get back to the point in answer it is obvious that the Jewish people (or any other persecuted group) did not resist because their numbers were ridiculously exaggerated by Zionist propaganda. Had their numbers not being ridiculously exaggerated by Zionist propaganda, they would have resisted. It's like this: You wake up in the middle of the night by five milkmen with Swastikas; obviously you are ready to resist, but then you think: "hey, my numbers are ridiculously exaggerated, wtf am I doing?"

It's a true story (albeit ridiculously exaggerated by Zionist propaganda)

[Ellsid]

Jewish programs in Czechoslovakia, Poland, Ukraine were quite frequent 1880-1920's. Pale settlements small almost segregated Jewish towns were common in Poland, Russia and could be easy targets of hostility. I believe that in Germany the Jewish population was the most assimilated(1900), many served in Germany's government civil service.

World War 1, Bolshevism, world depression: Jews were the easy scapegoat.

This appeared in the December 1922 issue of Przeglad powszechny (Poland)
"Jewry is contaminating Poland thoroughly:
It scandalizes the young, destroys the unity of the common people.
By means of the atheistic press it poisons the spirit, Incites evil, provokes, divides.....

The European Jew was used to being pushed around. Stalin was no lover of the Jew. Rebellion, fighting back would bring retaliation of the worst kind until the Nazi movement and its final solution.

[Darkhorse]

+Rep to Garbar!

[Salvatorel]

World War 1, Bolshevism, world depression: Jews were the easy scapegoat.

Yep,though it can't be denied that in Germany Jews were overrepresented among left wing radicals(Eisner,Zetkin,Jogiches,Luxemburg,Levine,etc) and one of main "criminals" who were held responsible for the defeat in WWI was Walter Rathenau,who was responsible for sizeable amounts of supply deliveries on the front and as one of the main reasons for German defeat was lack of supplies(though Rathenau's part in this was minimal),after that his activites as a foreign minister further strengthened "stab in back" version,so antisemitism became useful source for populist slogans(while not completely without reasons,still many of these slogans were pure exaggerations and in some cases inventions) and rise of the Nazis was only logical,since they were the ones who utilized socio-economical factors in the best political way possible for their agenda.

[Amagi]

Well, they didnt protest when the romans "holocausted" them in the city of Betharand alexandria:

The voice is the voice of Jacob and the hands are the hands of Esau:10 'the voice' here refers to [the cry caused by] the Emperor Hadrian11 who killed in Alexandria of Egypt sixty myriads on sixty myriads, twice as many as went forth from Egypt. 'The voice of Jacob': this is the cry caused by the Emperor Vespasian12 who killed in the city of Bethar four hundred thousand myriads, or as some say, four thousand myriads. 'The hands are the hands of Esau:' this is the Government of Rome which has destroyed our House and burnt our Temple and driven us out of our land.

Gittin 57B

Funny numbers.

Rab Judah reported Samuel as saying in the name of Rabban Simeon b. Gamaliel; What is signified by the verse, Mine eye affecteth my soul, because of all the daughters of my city?7 There were four hundred synagogues in the city of Bethar, and in every one were four hundred teachers of children, and each one had under him four hundred pupils,8 and when the enemy entered there they pierced them with their staves, and when the enemy prevailed and captured them, they wrapped them in their scrolls and burnt them with fire.

Gittin 58

400synagogues x 400teachers x 400 pupils= 64mio jews wrapped in scrolls and burnt alive!!!, and people complain bout the germans lol

Again, no protest. 64mio jews gone, and no protest.


No protest in the 1919 holocaust neither, where already 6mio jews went extinct.

Six million men and women are dying from lack of the necessaries of life; eight hundred thousand children cry for bread. And this fate is upon them through no fault of their own, through no transgression of the laws of God or man; but through the awful tyranny of war and a bigoted lust for Jewish blood.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

http://www.jrbooksonline.com/HTML-do...ust%20Stop.htm
And now there are some boldfaced scientiests, and state something like this:

"The only known thing we knew about Hitler is that he killed 6 million jews who never existed in gas chambers which nobody ever saw."

jewish professor Roger Dommergue

"Ninety-nine per cent of what we know we do not actually have the physical evidence to prove . . . it has become part of our inherited knowledge."

Jan van Pelt, world recognized expert on ze "holocaust".

On the plus side, at least 1% of the Holocaust is prooven then.
And here some heretics met and discussed the 6mio number:
The First Six Million - WHY THEY CHOSE THE NUMBER SIX
Excerpt:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

In all those "holocausts", the jews showed always astonishingly little fighting spirit.
And in case of the WW2 holocaust, the majority even escaped with the germans from ausschwitz when the russians were about to "liberate" it.
Ask Elie Wiesel- one of those lemmings.

[Darkhorse]

But there was protest, at least in the 2WW, much of it from regular Germans civilians as well as the Jewish population. Many Germans did not know the extent of such events, and it is true that as yet historians, neither intentionalist or functionlist have found a prooved written "Fuhrer" order, some would say (functionalists/Kershaw) that the whole thing was ad hoc and improvised "Working toward the Furhrer".

However, both schools of thought, including Ian Kershaws 3rd way, all detail levels of resistance and protest. Not all protest or resistance has to be up in arms and violent. Non conforming, pulling a sick day off of work, leaflet distrubtion, pirate radio, even word of mouth in a neighbourhood and many many other types of passive resistance did happen, and the Gestopo, Police, and SS could not possibly deal with, or proove every individual case. Granted they came down like a tonne of bricks when they could find proof. But resistance and non conformity did happen, gradually building up from 1938 and getting more popular especially post 1942. IIRC I think towards the end of the war, there was a paper by the Allies recogonising the events, in fact I'd go so far to say there was more resistance but less protest inside Germany than outside (unless you count fighting the war against Germany as resistance ).

I can't find the diagram, but if someone could post the "Circles of restance" Diagram that I think either Kershaw or Hans Mommsen drew, would be good as a referance to the different types of resistance that occured.

(Please tell me I got Int and Funct the right way around)