Croatians and Bosnians are Persian or partly Persian and not Slavic?

[6644kp]

I have come across this when I was reading wiki about the 13th SS Division. It basically explained that the Germans did not persecute the Croats and Bosnians like other Slavic people because they believed these peoples were not Slavic at all but had Gothic and Persian ancestry and were thus racially superior to their balkan neighbours.

I did some more googling and came up with this.

British scholar Noel Malcom in his book "A short history of Bosnia" printed in Britain offers valuable research about the racial relationship between Iranians and some ethnicities of the former Yugoslavia. He writes: "The name Croat, or Hravat in Serbian, is not a Serbian word. It is similar to the Iranian name Choroatos, found on tombstones of Greek dwelling regions of south Russia." He goes on to add that the original form of the word is "Khoravat" as mentioned in Avesta, meaning "friendly".

Historical studies indicate that the Croats started migrating from the Iranian homeland to Croatia, Serbia and Bosnia about 3,000 years ago. However, a much larger migration took place about 1,700 years ago. Probably the reason behind this migration was the suppression of the followers of Manichean faith during the Sassanid era

Noel Malcom says that new theories confirm historical knowledge. Some Croatian nationalist theoreticians have opted to adopt the theory linking their origins to Iran, thereby preserving their cultural and psychological independence, in order not to merge into the neighboring cultures. Such a theory gained particular popularity during World War II, for Iranians were considered to have a higher ranking compared to the Slava in terms of racial hierarchy.

Also the flag of Croatia has a chess board in it supposedly representing the Grand Master at Chess Bozorgmehr.

http://www.iranchamber.com/culture/a...ian_origin.php

Dunno how trustworthy this website is but it certainly is an interesting theory.

[Katsumoto]

I doubt it. Most of the Ex-Yugoslavian ethnicities share the same Slavic blood. It's just nationalist rhetoric.

[il padrino]

I doubt it. Most of the Ex-Yugoslavian ethnicities share the same Slavic blood. It's just nationalist rhetoric.

This.It was invented by Nazi Croats in WWII,to make them feel "superior" to Serbs.Germans spared them because they were openly pro Nazi from the start,not because they were Goths or something.

It's true we have many Persian words in our language(s),but that doesn't make us Persians.

[Roboute Guilliman]

I dont see how the Persians would have settled in the Balkans with that greek blocade .

[Slaytaninc]

This.It was invented by Nazi Croats in WWII,to make them feel "superior" to Serbs.Germans spared them because they were openly pro Nazi from the start,not because they were Goths or something.

It's true we have many Persian words in our language(s),but that doesn't make us Persians.

Indeed. Croatians and Serbs used to be the same people. The main reason they are different today is because they choose to identify along religious lines.

Of course, there's more differences, and they go back to other aspects of history as well.

[Aru]

The one and ONLY thing in Croatia that can be linked to Iran in any way is the word Hrvat, and that may just be by accident. Nothing else. Compared to Iranian theory even Gothic theory makes more sense.

Indeed. Croatians and Serbs used to be the same people. The main reason they are different today is because they choose to identify along religious lines.

Religion is just a piece of the puzzle, stop mixing god damn religion in every discussion about Croats and Serbs.

Croats and Serbs were one nation back in the time when the concept of nation was loose and below the concepts of class and religion. This is where religion plays part, but class is more important because at those times they were both just Christians, specially when Islam involved itself in Balkans.

In 17. to 19. century both Croats and Serbs went through their own national unifications (Slavonians and Dalmatians firmly becoming part of Croatian ethnicity, critical point during the revolutions in A-H empire, Serbs during their struggles for independence from Ottomans), and in 19. century when the ideas of Slavism spread they were still confined to few romantic poets and writers, because for most of the other people, the nation building was over and there was no capacity to do it again. Politicians were the ones to embrace it at the turn of 20. century to further their political goals, but by then the Serbian and Croatian political goals conflicted, and Yugoslavism was just a compromise between them.

So as nations, they were never really one.

[wilpuri]

Indeed. Croatians and Serbs used to be the same people. The main reason they are different today is because they choose to identify along religious lines.

Of course, there's more differences, and they go back to other aspects of history as well.

As far as I know, the Croats and the Serbs were separate ethnicities by the time they settled in the Balkans.

[Aru]

As far as I know, the Croats and the Serbs were separate ethnicities by the time they settled in the Balkans.

The Yugoslavian propaganda called them "Three tribes of one nation" (including the Slovenes).

[wilpuri]

The Yugoslavian propaganda called them "Three tribes of one nation" (including the Slovenes).

Today that makes sense, but if they were separate from the proto-slavic stage onwards, how accurate is that historically?

[hellheaven1987]

Today that makes sense, but if they were separate from the proto-slavic stage onwards, how accurate is that historically?

Probably very poor, consider 19th Century Croat nationalist called Serb and Croat "one blood, two faiths."

[Odovacar]

They aren't persian, that's . Closely related to the serbians in language and blood. Howver, the "one yugoslavian nation" is more like a 19-20th century propaganda.

[clandestino]

Both national names of Serbs and Croats have a probably non-Slavic root, among various theories about the name ( there is big deference of the origine of the name and the people itself ) of Serbs and Croats is one that they are of Iranian origin ( not Persian but Iranian, more corretcly northern-Iranian, closest thing would be Osets or Alans ), but again these are thoeries based on phonetical similarities, nothing more. The numerous quasi-historians of both nations like to make phantastic combinations about origins of Croats and Serbs, so for example Serbs became Sarmatian tribe that settled among Slavic tribes and gave them their name while more enthusiastic quacks finds Serbs back in the Herodotus' Skyths and so one, fortunately this kind of lunatics are prefectly ignored by the scientific community although they found some support among ignorant masses.

The Yugoslavian propaganda called them "Three tribes of one nation" (including the Slovenes).

Hhm, propaganda, heavy word.
I wouldn't characterise the declaration of the Croatian Parliament ( Sabor ) from May 29th 1918. about secession of Croatia from A-H and forming of the state of Croats, Serbs and Slovenes which would be based on the national unity of these three nations, as simple Yugoslavian propaganda. Or we can go little earlier to 19th century, where for example Croatian parliament in adress to archduke Joseph in 1848. directly states: ... '' because we are one people with the Serbs and we are so strongly melted together that nothing in the world can separate us anymore. And there is numerous other examples where both Croatian and Serbian highest authorities and representatives make statements in similar sense. In fact it turns out that Yugoslavian propaganda was in fact propaganda of Croatian official insitutions.
It's very amusing to read this kind of expressions of love between Croats and Serbs from this time distance.

[duda]

Croats are actually more slavic than many serbs nowadays, since a lot of serbs have been mixing with hungarians for quite a while now. apart from indo-european and persian language concepts in our language, i don't think serbs and montenegrins, nor any other ex yugoslav for that matter has anything to do with persians

[clandestino]

A lot of Serbs aren't mixing with Hungarains for a while, only Serbs living in Vojvodina are mixing with the Hungarians and that doesn't go for a long time, maybe last 50-60 years, and concerning the numbers of Hungarians and Serbs in Vojvodina and total population of Serbs in the region it's obvious that there can be a very small proportion of Serbs with Hungarian blood. I believe that before WW II marriage betwen common Serb and common Hungarian was a very, very rare thing.

[iudas]

They're not very 'Slavic' in 'blood' since they're pretty much based on the same Balkan substratum that lived there 2,000 years ago.

[Armenum]

No, but I think the connection between Persians and Croats is legitimate. Croats are mostly slavic of course but they do have a hint of Persian ancestry.

[RomanSoldier9001]

I have come across this when I was reading wiki about the 13th SS Division. It basically explained that the Germans did not persecute the Croats and Bosnians like other Slavic people because they believed these peoples were not Slavic at all but had Gothic and Persian ancestry and were thus racially superior to their balkan neighbours.

That was pretty smoke xD. Because everyone knew that Croats were slavic and dont forget the Serbs were colaborating aswell with Germans and they were always seen as slavics.

[Xerrop]

Well when some Croats originated from the area north of the black sea it seems quite possible that they have some iranian blood and share some words

[il padrino]

That was pretty smoke xD. Because everyone knew that Croats were slavic and dont forget the Serbs were colaborating aswell with Germans and they were always seen as slavics.

Serbia was occupied in WW2,just like France,the Low Countries,Poland...Croatia was an "independent" Nazi state.There's a difference there...

[bleach]

Sorry ut how do you know Croats originated from the steppe?