Dai Viet - Unit Previews & Roster Development

[Tekanako]

I've finished the Tower and the Monestary, now I have set up a search list for the Drikung Kagyu Tibetans, this is for what I should search and how, this is going to save me from ripping my hair out. I shall search and see what I sketch next.

1.0. Gompa buildings
-Drikung Kagyu
-Drikung Gompa
-Drikung
-Search for area and search in other Gompas in the area (google maps, google earth)

-Barracks
-Armouries
-Monasteries (not in Gompas)
-walls (already got a tower)
-Gompa houses
-Buddhist shrines
-Markets
-Places of social interaction
-Places of physical competition (if they exist – like game fields in Backtia and Sakas)

-Google Images
-Google Web search
-Google Book Search


1.1. Buildings for other Gompas
-Such as Lhasa
-Search for ‘Name’ Gompa or architecture in ‘to do with word’ and ‘Name’ Gompa

-Google Images
-Google Web search
-Google Book Search


1.4. Other special buildings in certain locations
-Potasi Monestery mountain retreat

-Google Images
-Google Web search
-Google Book Search


2.0. Units (although they have been modelled)
- Sketch certain bits of armour and equipment so the modellers and skinners can add in more detail.
-Search in Ospreys
-Search in Armies and Enemies of Ancient China
-search in sub-developing forum/[Forum Discussion] Tibetan Kingdoms – search for links

-Google Images
-Google Web search
-Google Book Search

-Ah what the heck, just sketch the units anyways for fun! –do the research first.


3.0. Pictures of the complete Gompa (birds eyes view)
-Drikung Gompa
-Google Images
-Google Web search
-Google Book Search

4.0. The environment around the Gompas
-Name of Gompa
-Google Earth and type in the name of the Gompa
-Look at the images and sketch the terrain

I'm currently doing Gompa buildings, seeing that 2.0 has been mostly forfilled.
God news by the way, this template can be used on all the factions for easy research.

[Augustus Lucifer]

Regarding unit art, it might be better to start with a faction that we haven't developed yet. I'm sure it's possible we can refine units over time, but where concept art will be really useful is the factions that still need visualization. I'd rank unit art higher than building art for the time being, mainly because the biggest translation of building art, the battle map, is still not entirely fleshed out by way of the IWTE tool. This all of course depends on you, since some people are better with buildings and others with units, so if it's outside your comfort zone don't do it. Wundai unabashedly falls in the buildings boat, if you do too that's fine.

From what I can tell, here's a rundown of our current factions; estimates are probably on the low side rather than the high side:

Faction Roster Progress

Song Dynasty - 90% Complete Yelu mentioned wanting to add a unit or two to the roster yet and touch up some things, but basically they have the fullest and most refined roster. Tibetan Kingdoms - 75-90% Complete As above, though has less units than the above. I'm guessing we'll probably toss in a unit here or there just based on the total roster #s for our other factions like Song and Xi Xia, but they're in a state where they could ship with no changes. Mongol Khanate - 30% Complete We have models that Yelu made for BC for the Mongols, but 6 of them is less than our other rosters, and knowing him he'll want to retouch the ones we have currently. The plans for our Mongol recruit system of having regionally gained units dictates quite a few more standard and AOR units. Taira Clan / Minamoto Clan - 20% Complete We have basically 5 units for both right now, though the monks aren't currently in the build for some reason. He's expressed that he intends to retouch these as well, so we have most of the roster yet to be made but some foundations to work from. Goryeo - 20% Complete We have some models made by S-te-fan and apparently sgawara has also made some models. tokimitsu has basically completely defined the Goryeo roster with accompanying reference art, so it probably requires less conceptualization in many ways. I believe danova is starting work on these or something. Jin Dynasty - 20% Complete I count 4 completed units for the Jin. They will probably have a roster rivaling Song, so there's still many more units to be made for them. Unsure of the state of the roster. Xi Xia - 10% Yelu is currently working on this roster. Consulting with him about whether concept art is needed may be good. Looks to have the work on it started, could be as high as 25% I don't rightly know. The roster itself in terms of units to be included is completely fleshed out. Khmer Empire - 5% We have one Khmer unit currently which is converted and will probably need some touching up yet. We do have a fair bit of reference models/skins/animations I believe from our contact Tom, but the roster still needs fleshing out. Dai Viet - 5% We don't have any models or skins done to my knowledge, maybe one from Vaz or u_have_krabs that I've forgotten. What we do have is, I believe, a fairly comprehensive listing of units for the roster as well as source images provided by vietanh797 and the good folks over at Ministry of Rites. Kara Khitai - 5% Yelu made some Khitan units for BC that we could use but haven't as of yet. I'm guessing, since he's a Khitan lover, that he'll want to do a fresh take on them, but if not then we do have significantly more % done. I'm also not factoring in model components like swords and stuff which would bump this up. Kingdom of Dali - 1% I think we have some source photos for 'Yunnan' troops but basically nothing else. Dali is like the 'forgotten child' so far, and needs work pretty much across the board, unless RW snuck in there and made them a roster while I wasn't looking. Kingdom of Champa - 1% The only information we have on Champa so far is incidental research from our Vietnamese historian, we haven't had anyone do a full take on them yet I'm fairly certain. Pagan Kingdom - 0% The unloved half-brother of the Khmer has very little in the way of cohesive information. They still need more source images, a roster, and obviously no units have been made for them. Ghurid Sultanate - ??% This one depends heavily on whether we ask AD for his Ghurids or make our own. They're last priority either way as it is. If we used his this could be as high as 90%, if not then there's nothing done on them but we do have all their research to reference, so maybe in the 10-20% range.

I don't have the time to pore through the faction discussion threads to verify all of that, it's just what I recall from when I have gone through them and should be at least proportionally accurate if not exactly accurate.

Personally I think where we could best use (unit) concept art is on Dai Viet. We already have had solid work put in to the roster and the gathering of source material. If you make concept art for the roster based on the images provided by vietanh and some artistic license, then we will have a prime candidate for someone who is not as independently minded as Yelu or danova to start modeling and texturing them.

[Tekanako]

Looks like the Dai Vet are in need, I'll finish up my search and luckly I've got lots of information on Gompas. By the way, no need to worry, I fit into both units and buildings, why you could also give me a big space ship to sketch! Could you do me a favour, what links would you suggest?

[Yelü Dashi]

Yeah - the list you posted is fine when we come round to look at 2d art for Tibet, but unit conceptualisinng is the priority. Also please note the start and end dates for AUH, your sketch of the Potala Palaxce was great but it wasn't building during our era (16th century, wheres we are 12th!).

Factions that need artwork for units would be Bagan (Burma) and like you said the Dai Viet (though we have alot of images in the thread in the public forum) there lots of stuff to inspire you in the Faction Discussion thread on the Dai Viet. (its long but worth reading through)

[Tekanako]

Currently working the Tran Peasant Infantry, they are so simple and yet their simplicty can be such a pain. been trying to figure out their clothing; a brown or black tunic tunic, Non La hat or tie around head and a Tam Vong sprear. When put the pieces to toghether I laughed... spearcarriers (cannon fodder). I've also been trying to find refrences to them in Dai Viet history... it's really hard to find anything on them, so I've found the development thread really usefull, if I really have to I'll ask Yevon for more information. A concept is also in progress, it's not a final, it's the sketchs of their clothing and equipment so it should help, I did it with my previous mecha designs. I expect to come up with something after I've got this week's exams . I've recently looked at Keith Thompson's work and I'm thinking about creating the Peasant in his style, I may also come up with a digital colour version later, or even better a Dai Viet Peasant mech.

[Yelü Dashi]

Keep it at, it's really important work you're doing. If they look anything like Keith Thompson's stuff, that will be perfect for us modellers and skinners to use. We'll try and get some researchers to help with the Dai Viet, but yevon and the others will be more than helpful.

[Augustus Lucifer]

Maybe we should add yevon to the dev team? I sent a couple messages to vietanh797 yesterday (or the day before?), haven't heard back yet but not exactly an unreasonable time frame considering how long I sometimes take to respond to PMs.

[Wundai]

Good idea of adding Yevon, he really is a source of information on a good number of factions!

@ Tekanako, good initiative

[Yelü Dashi]

Any progress with this ?

[Tekanako]

Peasant is nearly done, I need to get on to my light box and stekth out the final copy. luckly I have a free day on Friday so it should be scanned and done by then. However, there have been a few issues with historical accuracy (and the proportion of the arms), I have no idea if the Tam Vongs are genuin or not seeing that the guy that suggested it was sourcing from comic books and shows. I will come up with the concept with the Tam Vong, If this is inacurate then I can do a sketch of the actual weapon used once I find out.

[anhquang]

Hello, sorry for being late. Yevon and I are trying to come up with the final list of units with historical references and as much as possible images. We are currently working on it. That's why it seems to be silent.

[Tekanako]

GOOD NEWS!
I finished the Peasant Miltiaman sketch on Sunday and it has already been scanned, I should be able to submit it in this thread once I have the time on my hands.

[yevon]

GOOD NEWS!
I finished the Peasant Miltiaman sketch on Sunday and it has already been scanned, I should be able to submit it in this thread once I have the time on my hands.

I have just find out one important new: Tam Vong tree only have in South of Vietname and Thailand, Champuchia. It never exist in North of Vietname ( Daiviet in timeline). Too dangerous if we follow what someone like this:
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...16#post7503216

as same as legend about Jin's Chariot and Shaolin's warrior monk. The reason make even Vietnamese think Tam Vong very favourite in their history only because they be effect to much about VietCong's legend in Vietnam war.( and "Ma Tau" actually is name of one Chinese's blade.)

Calmdown, calmdown. Even you and me want our work will be the best ( sorry, I isn't good in grammar.). You should stop a little. We are completed Daiviet's authoritative unit roster, and translating my list into English, and prepare anything, even image. Too many wrong history document, if you made follow it before we posted my authoritative unit roster, may be you will wasted your working.

If don't have any change, we will post everything in next week.

Thank you.

... our team lost one year for this Faction. Really is one difficult journey for everyone.

a little more: can you lend me see your Peasant Miltiaman's image ??? May be we still can use it.

[Yelü Dashi]

Thanks for working on this yevon, e appreciate all you and your friends' efforts. Your roster will be the final and most authoriative one, and the only units we will create will be based on it.

Cheers,
Alex

[Tekanako]

So the Tam Vong spear was not used by the Tran, I knew it was to good to be true. The concept features the peasant holding the Tam Vong spear, luckily enough I looked though the Dai Viet thread and I was able to find traditional Dai Viet Peasantry clothing. To solve the Tam Vong problem, I can find out what spear was actually used and I can do a large sketch of spear. I shall also work on the colored version once my Work Experience has finished. By the way, I completely understand calming down, I shall slow down a bit and smell the roses (all trampled over on the battle field), I know a Homeworld 2 mod known as HW3 Sot, it produced brilliant work... it decided to rush, they stuffed up and so they gave up on all their other projects, luckily from what I've seen in AUH you guys are taking it steady on and your creating brilliant work along the way.

Note: My fathers second computer is being networked with our old main computer, it may be a while until I can get the Peasant concept of the computer and onto my Laptop.

Cheers to Yevon and Yelu Dashi!

[Tekanako]

The Non La may not be historically accurate, somebody in the Dai Viet thread recently mentioned that the Non La was worn in Eastern Vietnam (Champa), the whole entire 'Non La wearing Trans' may be conjecture.

[yevon]

Much more sooner than I imagine, I will begin post documents. This is list unit:


fencible army
- Spear Bamboo peasant ( spear bamboo) = Danbinh

Local Army ( real)
Local ( spear + shield) = Loquan Giao
Polearm Local ( Mac polearm) = Loquan Mac
Archer Local ( bow + shield + manchete) = Loquan Cung Thu
Local Javelin ( javelin + shield + axe) = Loquan Nem Lao
conscripts Army (Local Army- Fake, I will explain later):
Crossbow Levy ( crossbow + small shield + manchete) = Huong binh

Vassal Army
Billhook Vassal ( Cau Liem billhook) = Giabinh Cau Liem
Fireball Vassal ( fireball + shield + axe) = Giabinh Hoa Cau
Vassal Pike ( long spear) = Giabinh Giao Dai
Light Cavalry Vassal ( Mac polearm) = Ky binh
Elephant Vassal ( crossbow) = Voi Chien

Imperial Army
Imperial Guard (Thien Phu Giao polearm) = Cam Quan
Imperial Cavalry Archer ( bow + small shield + sword) = Quan Xa Ky

Special Unit:
- Quan Dung Nghia: ( special unit: highest brave, equipment, training as same as Imperial level: shield + sword)

== > Cavalry:
Cavalry Vassal, Elephant Vassal and Imperial Cavalry Archer




- Siege Weaponry:
mangonel = May Ban Da

----------------------------------------------------

About Unit's Colour:

I had check about history document, and I found out that: from the end of 12th century, these colour became King, Royal and bureaucrat: Red, Yellow and Blue. In these colour, Red is King and Royal's standard colour.

In the Tran dynasty, White is standard colour of Royal and bureaucrat's servant and slave, that mean Vassal unit ( almost is Royal member's slave and servant) use White is their standard colour.

Follow the text of some Chinese ( from Song and Yuan Empire) who had visited Vietnamese, they say that Vietnamese's civillian usually use colour is Black and Yellow ( but Yellow will be ban from 1182 by the King). Beside of that, Vietnamese usually image about their ancestor in some clothes painted in Brown or Indigo

=>

- Peasant; Levy; Local unit: Black, Brown, Indigo
- Highlander unit: black ( black is standard colour of Nung population's clothes)
- Vassal unit: white, can mix with a little of Black, Brown, Indigo
- Imperial Guard, Imperial Cavalry: Red.
- Quan Dung Nghia: White, Black, Brown, Indigo. Because although have same rank as Imperial, they never be accept by goverment like regular unit. They only is lowlife under view of goverment.

history document wrote about Tu Phuong Binh Dinh hat: " the hat made by buffalo skin, and painted in Red.". That is reason why although equip for Local unit, it don't have colour is Black, Brown, Indigo as their standard clothes.


After had seen many Vietnamese's shield, I believe Vietnam shield's standard colour is Brown ( because it ofter be made by Wooden) or Black ( every when it be painted).

[yevon]

Because we have to combine two dynasty in one list's unit, and because Tran dynasty have an efficient and elaborate military system. Therefore this list must be as elaborate.

This is List Unit Background:

Dan Binh ( fencible army) - bamboo spear.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

It was the equivalent of militia and peasants typically seen in Med II vanilla. These men were self-armed farmers who seek only to protect their home towns or villages. Ill-equipped with no more than bamboo spears, simple bow and crossbow and primitive guerilla tactics, yet, their roles were crucial in protecting and reclaiming their country’s independence from invaders. During the game timeframe, however, Dai Viet had already established a capable military system. Thus, in contrast to the widely held misconception about their importance, their role was minimal at large.

Quan Dia Phuong ( Local Army).

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

DaiViet’s local armies were the Ly dynasty’s primary force used both in defense of the provinces and in offensive campaigns against their Champa and Northern Song neighbors. Due to the importance of their local armies, the Ly dynasty strictly forbid enslavement of males while maintaining a thorough control on population census to ensure available recruitment for their local armies. Strong and fit men of every region was picked out and required to enlist into their respective local armies and to follow a special program called “Ngu Binh U Nong” ( Housing the army in the rice field/agriculture).

Unlike in the neighboring Song the army was the way to escape agriculture, in DaiViet, soldiers were closely tied to agriculture. In fact, every local soldier was given lands to sustain themselves and their family. Every year, the soldiers were required to devote a certain amount of time for duty (patrol, training, etc), so they took turn between farming and soldiering. Thus, the state only had to pay, in addition for equipments and weapons, for salary and ration of the soldiers who were on duty. With this method, DaiViet was able to develop agriculture while maintaining a large bulk of semi-professional reserve whose combat skills were superior to regular conscript-standard (due to the fact that they were required to train regularly) at much lower maintenance cost, allowing them to allocate more money on military equipments, weapons and other affairs. Once a soldier died, the land returned to the state’s possession.

Thanks to its many crucial advantages, Ngu Binh U Nong continued to be the state’s prized policy up until the 19th century.

Local Army Unit

Local spearman ( spear + shield) The true local semi-regular soldiers, in the system of “Ngu Binh U Nong”. They received decent training and equipments. Local billmen ( Cau Liem billmen). The true local semi-regular soldiers, in the system of “Ngu Binh U Nong”. They received decent training and equipments. They used some kind of bill named “Câu liêm”, which is pretty popular among the Daiviet soldiers. It can be used in the same way as normal bill, to cut horse feet and hack through heavily amoured foes. Local archers ( bow + shield + axe) The true local semi-regular soldiers, in the system of “Ngu Binh U Nong”. Decently trained and equipped, they were reliable hybrid archers. A pale comparison to the Northern nomads in term of speed and accuracy, but due to the national guerilla tactic, they could effectively held their ground in melee. Levy pikemen: ( pike) When the needs surpassed the amount of local troops available, the state would call to arms the peasantry, quickly train and equip them before committing them in combat. As conscripts, make-up soldiers, they were ill equipped and received little training. Only served as “arrow fodders” or a spear wall to keep the enemy cavalry at bay to support the true local army. ( this is reason why I call them is "Conscripts Army - Local Army - fake")

Highlanders:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

They were the minor tribal populations scattered along the borders between Dai Viet, Dali and Southern Song. Both numerous and ferocious, these highland warriors had successfully assaulted Song twice (in 1050 and 1075), and sometimes even fought against Dai Viet. In acknowledgement of the highlanders’ martial prowess and geo-political potential (as an effective buffer zone between Dai Viet and China), the Ly dynasty made every attempt to win their allegiance, even that means marrying the princesses to their tribal leaders. Within the game’s time frame, the highlanders had virtually submitted and were valuable allies to Dai Viet, contributing immensely in the wars against the Mongol-Yuan Empire (in 1258, 1285 and 1288).

Highlander unit

Highlander Javelineer ( javelin + shield + Rua - machete) From 1050 to 1055, when the Highlander leader Nung Tri Cao ( in Chinese: Nungz Cigaoh) begin his campaign invalded into Song's Guangdong and Guang Xi and total defeated Song's defend troops in two this territory. The staple of Nung Tri Cao is equipped and fought in this manner. Finally, they were defeated by the legendary general Di Qing (狄青, 1008 - 1057) and his heavily armored cavalry. Highlander Water Crossbowmen ( machete but have long machete-staff + shield + blowpipe) Please don’t mistake them for ranger unit, they were actually swordmen. Actually they used some kind of blowpipe shooting poisonous darts. This poison is so strong that it can spread disorder among the rangs of victims, making them easy target for the blade swinging, furiously charging highlanders. ( They are parallel with throwing darts Romans or Soghdians heavy infantry. About their amour though, there is little if any information).

Quan Vuong Hau ( Vassal Army)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

( 王 侯 兵, literally “army of Princes and Marquises”, it can be called. I can’t really find an equivalent term in English, Princely Army? Royal Army? Vassal Army? But still I will use " Vassal Army")

Having overthrown the Ly dynasty in 1225, in order to consolidate the newly established regime, the Tran dynasty set up a feudal system in which each member of the Tran royal family was allowed to create their own armies, called the Vassal Army (also known as the Gia Binh - In Chinese: Jia Jun; In English: Familiar army - but quite different in nature from the Chinese namesake). This privilege of having personal armies, however, was granted exclusively to the Tran family members to prevent coup-d’état attempts on the throne that put the Ly dynasty out of power.

Owing to its name, every Vassal army was set up, equipped, trained and funded completely by a member of the Royal family. Therefore, each Vassal army was characterized by quality and attributes of its leader in terms of compositions, equipments and fighting abilities.Because strong martial tradition was a feature of the Tran dynasty, its royal members took great care and pride of their armies. If the Ly dynasty’s the main forces were the local armies, the new Vassal armies were the backbone of the Tran military which more than proved itself in defeating 3 Mongol invasions. In Dai Viet history, the Vassal Army only exist during the Tran dynasty.

Vassal Army Unit

Vassal fireball thrower ( Fireball + shield + sword) Throwing pots with oil and fir resin inside are always fearsome weapons of the Dai Viet marines, stunningly effective to burn enemy ships. They are also well equipped to fighting on melee. Crossbow Vassal ( crossbow + shield + mace) Silent, deadly, easy to use and easy to manuever, the crossbow is the ideal weapon for guerilla warfare. Crossbowman need little training and can be more well-versed in melee. Poisounous bolts has been a terror among the invaders of Viet, even until 19th century. (Though, I don’t know if those crossbowmen use the fearsome composite brod of Song style or the simple self brod of the highlander ethnics? Maybe both, depending on it use in ambush or massed volleys.) Pike Vassal ( pike) The cream of the wheat among vassal soldiers. Having good spears and armor, they are the main force fighting against Northern mounted invaders. Elephant Vassal ( crossbow - only normal crossbow, not huge crossbow as Khmer Empire) War elephants can be either the protective wall for infantry, or the devastating spear head to break though enemy ranks and turn the table. An ancient terror among the Northern invaders.

Cam Ve Quan ( Imperial Army).

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

They were the professional and best equipped, best disciplined portion of Dai Viet’s military. Established in the Early Le dynasty (980-1009), Dai Viet’s imperial army continued to grow but remained a small elite core, entrusted only with the task of safe-guarding the emperor and the Capital city with little to no involvement on the battlefields. However, by the time of the Tran dynasty, the Imperial army quickly increased in strenght under the direct command of the king himself and a few most trusted generals.

Imperial Unit

Imperial Guard ( shield + blade) Well discipline, well equipped elite. Those loyal bodyguards were the last wall protecting the divine Son of Heaven. Imperial Cavalry ( bow and sword) Despite its strong emphasize on infantry and war elephants, Dai Viet still had decent cavalry. They are mounted imperial soldiers, reliable for backing infantry and support elephants, which are always considered as a more powerful shock troop.

Quan Dung Nghia ( special unit: highest brave, equipment, training as same as Imperial level: shield + blade)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Dung Nghia ( 勇 義兵, "Dung" mean "brave", "Nghia" mean " justice")

Vietnamese's penal military unit

They were the volunteers, indigent peasant, even bandits, trained and equipped by the state by the standards of the Imperial army. Utilized as a sort of suicidal unit (think of German “Verlorene Haufe”), these men showed up at the fiercest points of the battle line to turn the tide of battle, regardless of how terrible casualties might turn out. For the same reason, these enfants perdus (lost children) never officially appear on the personnel reports of the Imperial army. (Yes, If anyone had played Halo, they similar Spartan-III in Halo, tragic fate in exchange for triumph).

[yevon]

Additional information:

Fencible army:

Fencible army

-The history record about fencible’s movement in this timeline was in 1285. Together with a certain Vassal Army, they try to defend Thanh Hoa against Yuan Empire’s troops from Champa ( lead by Söghetei -唆都 – one Yuan’s famed general). Of course, both of them ( Vassal Army troops and fencible troops) were… utterly defeated. - other history documents about fencible’s movement in this timeline were mostly about their rebels against Ly dynasty from 1202 to 1216, lead by Ngo Phi Lang ( though he is...land holder noble!). They were very strong, so strong that Ly dynasty can’t defeated themm unlike the later Tran. To put it simply, in the end of every dynasty, there were always some peasant rebels. - Despite that fact, their number was still notorious. To begin with, we intended to introduce 3 “militia” units: bamboo spear, crossbow, and hoes, but it’s impossible due to 15 units limit. Because of that, I decided use only one fencible unit, the bamboo spear militia. - Although there isn't any Tam Vong tree in Daiviet, Vietnam’s fencible men usually have wood rod and bamboo spear. Pham Dinh Ho’s book “ Vu Trung Tuy But” - 18th century , and in Chen Fu’s “ An Nam tuc su( 安南即事)”, really confirm this. This is the reason I decided to give “bamboo spear” preferential treatment while other crossbow and hoes will be omitted.

Local Army ( real unit and fake unit )

Local Army ( real unit and fake unit )

- Historical records during the Ly dynasty show that: during peace time, there were about 20,000 local soldiers on duty, but when situation required, the state was able to call up as least 50,000 men. (50,000 was the number stated in every offensive campaign against Champa in 1069 and against northern Song in 1075) - When the needs surpassed the amount of local soldiers available, the state would call to arms the peasantry, quickly train and equip them before committing them in combat. Such soldiers would be the conscripts in their true sense. Even though considered by the state as local soldiers, these conscripts were much less capable and received no land. Because of the special nature of the local soldiers, DaiViet distinct its “local soldiers” from village guards and petty militia ( Dan Binh: fencible army/militia). In some way the "local army" resembles the sparabara in Ancient Achemenid Persian, the Greek Hoplite, or the Byzantine pronoai, with the same component of small land-holding soldiers. It’s unclear if those mens included any cavalry.

Highlander:

Highlander

- Song history recorded the huge number of highland raiders as they plundered and massacred their way into Qinzhou, Yongzhou in 1075: “Among them were women and children. The barbarians bring along their whole family, leaving behind only the weak and sick…” - Highlander’s Water Crossbow: During his mission in Daiviet after the year 1288, the emissary Chen Fu of Yuan Empire was collecting informations about the land and people, found in his book " An Nam tuc su( 安南即事)". This “water crossbow” was also mentioned: “Water crossbow, or xá sa (Xá= one among the minority ethnics), the shooter use his breath to blow up to 30 pou (45m). The victim feel so itchy, and the only cure is using blade to cut off the part of flesh exposed to the poison. Otherwise, dead is certain”. In our own interpretation, it’s not actually a crossbow, but a blowpipe. (The 30 pou record is possibly an exaggeration, ‘coz it exceeds even the javelin range)

Vassal Army:

Vassal Army

- About Vassal’s army: Tran Hung Dao’s army was composed mostly of tenants and slaves of his vast estates and a few civilians; Tran Quoc Toan, as a less wealthy royal member, led an army of peasant volunteers who organized, trained, and equipped by themselves; Tran Nhat Duat, thanks to his charisma and exceptional knowledge in foreign customs and languages, built his army on highlanders and foreign refugees who had fled from Mongol rule - About Vassal soldieres’s legend: Many folk tales and historical records agreed upon the loyalty and abilities of many familiar soldiers. Ex: - Yet Kieu: a slave, retinue member of Tran Hung Dao who was famous for his ability to dive and sabotage enemy ships from below. His name means "Cormorant", a bird who traditionally catch fishes for Chineses and Vietnameses. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cormorant_fishing - Da Tuong: a slave, retinue member of Tran Hung Dao, was famous for taming and training war elephants. His name simply mean "Wild elephant". - Pham Ngu Lao: a country man, retinue member of Tran Hung Dao, who will become a famous tactician and strategist general and was even adopted into the royal family through marriage. - Zhao Zhong: Southern Song soldier, very skillful archer, a retinue member of Tran Nhat Duat who eventually became the leader of all South Song refugee soldiers in Tran Nhat Duat army. - Some quotes praising the Vassal armies: Emperor Tran Nhan Tong: “...Of the multitude that flocks around me in time of peace, only a handful of them (the Vassal Army) remain at my sides in times of dangers” Tran Hung Dao talk about his soldiers (specially Yet Kieu): “For flamingos to soar high, there have to be the six large wing bones; without such support, they are but petty sparrows.” The famous Late Le ( 1418 – 1527) historian Ngo Si Lien remarked: “ Dai Viet's victories against the Yuan Empire and the Mongol Horde owed the most to the Tran Vassal Army.” Vassal Crossbow: October – 1883, during the fighting with French soldiers in Hai Phong city, the Viets still used crossbows. A French gave some comments on Vietnamese poison bolts and its lethality: “...the poison on the arrow head is very deadly. Once hit, it is impossible to find the antidote.”

Imperial:

Imperial

During the Ly dynasty, there were 3000 Imperial soldiers whereas by the beginning of the Tran dynasty, the Imperial army totaled as many as 20,000 soldiers.

Quan Dung Nghia:

Quan Dung Nghia

One version of penal military unit. Initially appeared in … Song in 1073, in Guangdong and Quang Xi, Dai Viet actually copied that idea and reintroduce it. They play an important role in the Victory of Bach Dang 1288. I only know about this one week ago when read a old book from 1983 about event Bach Dang 1288. I’m quite surprised that mod did not include these men in Southern Song. Don’t they play an important role in South Song’s history?

[yevon]

To completed this list Unit and their background, history document:

- Thankful about Truong Huu Quinh, Phan Dai Doan, Nguyen Canh Minh for their book" Vietnam history's conspectus".
- Thankful about Nguyen Viet, Vu Minh Giang, Nguyen Manh Hung for their book " Marine in journal against invader's history.", athought write about Marine, they have very many history document about Quan Dung Nghia, mangonel,...
- Thankful about Tran Hung Dao for his book " Binh Thu Yeu Luoc".
- Thankful about emissary Chen Fu and his book " An Nam tuc su( 安南即事)" for his history document about Daiviet's equipment in this timeline ( although I know that he make this only for the next Yuan Empire's invading)
- Thankful about very many Song's civillian had completed "Song's history". I can't imagine that they write about their enemy more careful than even their enemy.
- Thankful anyone had put the law " 15 unit", this law really help me very much, I help me can against anyone want add to much unit in this list.
- Thankful anhquang, Hektor27, satan had helped to translated my writing into English.
- Thankful Satan for his knowledge about naval, infantry, equipment, armor.

about artwork, I will post later.