I think the dutch are my favorite nation in this game.

[Kanaric]

There are just so many choices with this nation in what to do, plus they get excellent decisions and missions, and they get a lot of naval force limit rather early in the game.

I can expand in europe, help against france with england, unite germany, form HRE, take the nortern coast to scandinavia. Or I could stay relatively small, colonize america, etc.

Big variety of nations around you.

They are by far the most fun nation in the game for me.

[Cooraan]

How do you unite Germany with the dutch? They form the Netherlands......

[hellheaven1987]

Dutch - overrun by French anytime.

Unfortunately if you like small nation, Portugal is probably the best. Other than that, Venice or Austria are quite interesting too. There are some second-rate small Latin nations such as Sweden, Meckburg and Denmark which are fun to play, but other nations truly need a lot of blessing to actually have something done.

[Comrade_Rory]

There are some second-rate small Latin nations such as Sweden, Meckburg and Denmark which are fun to play, but other nations truly need a lot of blessing to actually have something done.

I'm pretty sure none of these are Latin nations...
Latin Europe mainly refers to southern Europe...
Infact it's "Latin" because of the Romans and they barely touched most of Germany and never reached Denmark and Sweden.

[CDMan477]

I'm pretty sure none of these are Latin nations...
Latin Europe mainly refers to southern Europe...
Infact it's "Latin" because of the Romans and they barely touched most of Germany and never reached Denmark and Sweden.

They are Latin with respect to the way the game breaks down tech groups. That's probably what he is referring to.

What is the best nation to use to try and form the Netherlands from the beginning of the game? I'm not one to start the game in the middle of the time line, so I've never played as the Netherlands before.

[Babri]

What is the best nation to use to try and form the Netherlands from the beginning of the game? I'm not one to start the game in the middle of the time line, so I've never played as the Netherlands before.

From Wiki :-

To take this decision:

1. Netherlands must not already exist and you may not be the Papal State.

2. Primary culture must be Dutch or Flemish.

3. You must own and have core on Zeeland, Holland, Utrecht and Friesland.

Effects:

1. Change your country to Netherlands.

2. Grant cores on Vlaanderen, Breda, Zeeland, Holland, Utrecht, Gelre, Friesland, Limburg and Antwerp.

3. Gain +1 base tax in a random owned Dutch or Flemish-culture province.

4. Gain two points toward centralization.

5. Gain +5 prestige.

6. Gain +1 merchant.

[Kanaric]

How do you unite Germany with the dutch? They form the Netherlands......

Not talking about forming germany.

Dutch - overrun by French anytime.

Part of what makes them fun to play, a challenge. However usually I can keep the french friendly with me

[Lysander13]

There are just so many choices with this nation in what to do, plus they get excellent decisions and missions, and they get a lot of naval force limit rather early in the game.

I can expand in europe, help against france with england, unite germany, form HRE, take the nortern coast to scandinavia. Or I could stay relatively small, colonize america, etc.

Big variety of nations around you.

They are by far the most fun nation in the game for me.

Seconded
!

Dutch Minors---> Netherlands is far & away my favorite EU3 Nation to play. For all the reasons listed.

For me the danger of being overrun by France or Burgundy in the early going only adds to the allure of playing as The Dutch. Way more attractive & fun to me than playing as Portugal for instance. Where all you have to do is essentially cozy up to the Spaniards & your set. As the Dutch, it's somewhat difficult to be "friends" with all the classical Western powers. So your always in danger of facing off against a foe who has you outmanned & outgunned. So many different ways to play as the Dutch. Some of my favorite EU campaigns by far.

[hellheaven1987]

Seconded
!

Dutch Minors---> Netherlands is far & away my favorite EU3 Nation to play. For all the reasons listed.

For me the danger of being overrun by France or Burgundy in the early going only adds to the allure of playing as The Dutch. Way more attractive & fun to me than playing as Portugal for instance. Where all you have to do is essentially cozy up to the Spaniards & your set. As the Dutch, it's somewhat difficult to be "friends" with all the classical Western powers. So your always in danger of facing off against a foe who has you outmanned & outgunned. So many different ways to play as the Dutch. Some of my favorite EU campaigns by far.

Dutch against Burgundy?? To be honest unless your Dutch is Republic there is quite a good way to block enemy's intention of invading Netherland by diplomate way. However, if enemies really wants to jump on you there is no way to stop them, even a -6 stability hit on them.

[Lysander13]

Dutch against Burgundy?? To be honest unless your Dutch is Republic there is quite a good way to block enemy's intention of invading Netherland by diplomate way. However, if enemies really wants to jump on you there is no way to stop them, even a -6 stability hit on them.

Alrighty then......

I don't recall claiming there wasn't a diplomatic solution to keeping Burgundy in check in the early going. Only that it could be challenging to be cozy/buddies with all the classical western powers in a 1399 start....ie... if your cozy with France, then there's a good chance you aren't going to be so with Burgundy or England & vice versa...etc..etc... And as a Dutch OPM or perhaps as a TPM, one would do well in carefully choosing their allies. Particularly in a 1399 start. It happens i usually prefer to cozy up to Burgundy & get involved against France as early as possible.

And yes... If Burgundy ( in the early going ) puts a bullseye on all the Netherlands & carries thru without any distractions from any other western power, there isn't much one playing as a 1 or 2 province Dutch minor can do to stop them. But that's not exactly coming off the mountain with the stone tablets if you catch my meaning.

[removeduser_487563287433]

I agree. My next game may be a Dutch game where I do not take any land in continental Europe beyond the Greater Netherlands region.

[BemusedHorse]

I just get owned by Burgundy, until Burgundy disappear around 1460 to Austria.

[removeduser_487563287433]

I just get owned by Burgundy, until Burgundy disappear around 1460 to Austria.

It should be okay. Burgundy disappears pretty quickly, so although can be a problem to begin with, can easily be solved by piggy backing on France. You should be able to pick off another Dutch minor, as Holland. But all in all I find Brabant to be far more of an early pain in the arse.

Lever Antwerp off Burgundy early on and you're laughing. The factory there is a great help to you, as you'll be relying on trade for your income.

[Augment]

Always fun to create Dietsland

[Pious Agnost]

I still prefer Russia.

But the Dutch are fun too.

[Fenwayb]

i tried to start a 1399 holland game, however i cannot for the life of me figure out who my leige is, so i can take them out and finally take land (sry if this is stupid i just got this game it is my first time ever playing a paradox game, let alone a EU game)

[Lysander13]

i tried to start a 1399 holland game, however i cannot for the life of me figure out who my leige is, so i can take them out and finally take land (sry if this is stupid i just got this game it is my first time ever playing a paradox game, let alone a EU game)

In a 1399 start, Holland starts out in a Union under Hainaut; which would be a couple of provinces to Holland's south. Hainaut is located just South West of Brabant, IIRC.

Welcome to the world of Paradox Games.

[Fenwayb]

i tried to attack Hainaut, but it said i was allied to them and i needed to break the alliance, however i tried to break the allaince and it said i couldnt...

[Lysander13]

i tried to attack Hainaut, but it said i was allied to them and i needed to break the alliance, however i tried to break the allaince and it said i couldnt...

You couldn't dissolve the alliance??........

What version are you playing?

[Fenwayb]

You couldn't dissolve the alliance??........

What version are you playing?

whatever version the complete edition is...