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  1. #1

    Default Royal Navy Submarines

    Considering that the UK had more submarines than Germany in WWI (and I think WWII) as well, what were they used for? The exploits of the U-boat wolf packs are (in)famous, yet we here next to nothing of the RN subs, aside from the occasional migit sub operation.

    Any info would be appreciated.
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  2. #2
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: Royal Navy Submarines

    Not much in the way of German shipping or surface assists to aim at rally what do you expect (its not like Germany was deploying a hitherto unprecedented economic effort to supply fascist LL to Japan and invade Canada). Off the cuff I believe they where active against the Italians and Japanese.

    Have you tried search for British subs WW2 and either area of operation Pacific or Med in Google or Google scholar/books
    Last edited by conon394; June 04, 2010 at 07:41 PM.
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    Sir Pignans's Avatar The bringer of cheese.
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    Default Re: Royal Navy Submarines

    We had subs active in the Med, for example:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Triumph_(N18)
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    Jagdpanzer's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: Royal Navy Submarines

    They were also used to supply Malta iirc.

  5. #5
    Sir Pignans's Avatar The bringer of cheese.
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    Default Re: Royal Navy Submarines

    Quote Originally Posted by The Red Knight View Post
    They were also used to supply Malta iirc.
    Really? I was under the impression that whilst some were based off Malta, they were unable to supply it.

    That was the whole point of the Pedestal convoy I thought?
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    Jagdpanzer's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: Royal Navy Submarines

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Pignans View Post
    Really? I was under the impression that whilst some were based off Malta, they were unable to supply it.

    That was the whole point of the Pedestal convoy I thought?
    Operation Magic Carpet: http://www.seayourhistory.org.uk/content/view/615/783/

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Submarines help to carry supplies to the besieged island of Malta during World War Two
    During World War Two Malta lay under siege from German and Italian aircraft meaning that British surface ships were unable to deliver vital supplies to the island. As a result, the authorities cut rations to an extremely low level and the morale of civilians and members of the services living in Malta declined. The British Government directed Royal Navy submarines to ferry cargo to Malta and as underwater freighters they created the ‘Magic Carpet’ operation. The supply runs took place roughly once every twelve days and it is undeniable that without the ‘Magic Carpet’ the occupants of Malta would not have survived.
    Supplies carried


    Submarines transported stores to Malta consisting of guns and munitions, medical stores, aviation fuel and provisions desperately needed by Malta’s defending fighters. They were able to fulfil the daily requirements of the ships, submarines and aircraft at the Island. Providing these supplies was not an easy task. On one trip the submarine HMS Porpoise suffered attacks from 87 depth charges and a shower of aircraft bombs but was still able to get through. On its arrival in Malta HMS Union was greeted by an acoustic mine but fortunately no damage was done.
    How submarines transported the stores

    Submarines installed cargo in every conceivable space. The submarine HMS Clyde actually had one main battery removed in order to create a ‘hold’ for store carrying. This also provided an excellent venue for submariners to hold parties! In other vessels submariner’s welded containers to the boat’s casing in order to carry submarine and aircraft torpedoes to Malta. Aviation spirit or cooking fuel could either be carried in cans stowed beneath the casing or ‘in bulk’ in the submarine’s external fuel tanks.
    Carrying petroleum products posed the greatest challenge. When cans of petrol were carried inside the submarine the diving depth was restricted to 65ft, just below periscope depth and then only for very short periods of time. This meant that the boats were more prone to discovery and attack. Initially submarines transported fuel to Malta in ordinary 4 gallon petrol cans. These, however, began to leak and there was often a smell of petrol from the burst fuel cans which had not been able to withstand the underwater pressure created when the submarines were submerged. As a consequence, submarines then carried the fuel in special containers.
    Carrying fuel in the submarine’s external tanks posed a significant fire hazard and the Captains of the submarines prohibited smoking on the bridge of the vessel.
    The role of HMS Rorqual

    In June 1941 The Royal Navy removed the submarine HMS Rorqual from its patrol duties and requested the vessel to help carry stores to Malta. It began to transport all kinds of food to the island such as oil, sugar, coffee and tea greatly needed to boost the rations of those living in Malta.





    Naval message sent from the submarine S10 requesting HMS Rorqual take supplies to Malta (RNSM)

    In September 1942 HMS Rorqual left Beirut with stores for Malta which included cases of dehydrated vegetables. T B Johnson, who served on board the submarine, described picking up these supplies:
    ‘Arrived in Beirut and loaded provisions for Malta. Who ever heard of dehydrated cabbage, we’d bales of it. We walked on it, some floated in the bilges but we got to Malta and the Maltese were glad to see us. We made several of these trips.’
    The British Government’s lists of cargo did not mention the ‘unofficial’ items carried by the submarines such as cases of gin for the various wardrooms in Malta and, on one occasion, a consignment of records for the Island’s Governor, Lord Gort.

    HMS Clyde, the mail carrier

    Between May and October 1942 HMS Clyde undertook seven submerged trips to Malta. The vessel carried substantial quantities of mail from Britain and other Allied countries. This was an important morale booster for the people of the island as they were able to keep in touch with their friends and families. The crew of HMS Clyde made a special Jolly Roger flag to celebrate its role in delivering mail during the Magic Carpet operation. On the flag they painted a crown, post horn and the words 'Royal Mail'.

  7. #7
    Elmar's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Royal Navy Submarines

    Actually, while UK subs were indeed very effective in the Med (less so in the Pacific due to range issues) they also saw quite extensive action around coastal Europe as a whole, preying on coastal shipping and returning and outgoing U-boats.
    And curiously, they occasionally acted as part of a convoy escort.
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    AUSSIE11's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: Royal Navy Submarines

    i would also have though they where used for intelligence purposes as well... not sure but working off what subs have been used for in other time periods
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    René Artois's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Royal Navy Submarines

    They were used to land secret agents.
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  10. #10
    Azog 150's Avatar Civitate
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    Default Re: Royal Navy Submarines

    They were also often used during commando raids.
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  11. #11
    Yorkshireman's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: Royal Navy Submarines

    The Germans had around 5 times as many submarines as the Royal navy, around 1150 U-Boats deployed or commissioned whilst the RN deployed around 206.

    This info is from the 2 websites linked, so I can't vouch for its accuracy,

    Royal Navy 206 subs deployed,

    78 lost (sunk/damaged beyond repair/beached)

    3, 142 crew killed (1 in 3)

    475 merchant ships, 105 warships, 36 subs sunk.

    http://home.cogeco.ca/~gchalcraft/sm/index.htm

    http://www.uboat.net/boats/

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