Infantry (non-phalanx) tactics?

[removeduser_052420]

Hey all.

I've just come to ask, can anyone give me some basic tactics and tips to use when deploying non-phalanx infantry? My years as playing as the diadochi factions have led me to become completely dependent on using phalanx-based armies, and as I expand into the forest of germany and Northern europe, I end up getting destroyed when I attempt to use non-phalanx troops. What am I supposed to do? Position the heavy infantry in a line first, with the light infantry behind? Or the other way around?

EDIT: Oh, and can someone also tell me how to use the pre-marian Roman units? As in formation, battle tactics, etc?

Thanks to all who can help

[mamik_yev_konak]

Epic questions call for epic answers. But it can't be...
Let your imagination run wild. Or read up on some battles. In any case, what I say should be the common factor among all of these (including Roman strategy) is to maintain reserve forces. Do not be tempted to thin out your line simply to match the enemy's coverage. Many a time has breaking the enemy center proven deadly. Now, battle formations men!

Non-Phalanx Infantry Formations/Tactics
Missiles
Heavy, Light, Heavy
Reserve infantry
Cavalry arm

In this formation, you can see that the general is relying on his weaker center (usually bolstered by making the line thicker) to stall long enough for the heavy infantry on the wings to chop through the enemy's flanks. If successful, in combination with the cavalry arm, these wings of yours may prove deadly to the enemy ranks.

Missiles
Light, Heavy, Light
Reserve Infantry
Cavalry arm

In this second formation, the general is relying on his weaker wings to hold long enough for the beast that lies in the centre to crush the enemy and break through his centre. If successful, the general will have split the enemy forces into two, cutting of support and crushing remaining units piecemeal.

Other formations seem to be combinations of these. More strange formations are usually not advised as a loose and disconnected infantry line seems to break unless you are a Roman with individual companies of men that may be ordered as the battle progresses to change battle plans.

Pre-Marian Roman Legion Formations/Tactics
As Camillian or Polybian Rome you have several options available to you.

Missiles
Hastati
Principes
Triarii
Consvl + Cav

This seems to be the most popular arrangement for Camillian Rome, at least among players. The three lines are meant to be successive waves, only reaching for the Triarii if the situation becomes wary.

Missiles
Principes
Hastati
Triarii
Consvl + Cav

This formation is possibly closer to the actual Camillian battlefield formation. As you know, Camillian Principes use spears, and spears were the weapon of choice back in the day. The spearhead was reliable, and many swords were known to bend upon impact. In any case, this allows for a strong centre bolstered by the hoplite-fashioned Triarii, as well as Hastati medium swordsmen that may act as flanking infantry, supported by cavalry of course. The first formation is more popular when it comes to the Polybian era.

This triple-line formation usually is in a checkered fashion known as the quincunx. This allows for the first line to retreat, be replaced by the second line, rest, and then merge and coalesce with the second line. Such stamina and repeated attacks eventually cause the enemy to yield. When the Triarii are needed it usually means the situation is dire or you need to make a tactical retreat. The Triarii are great cover in times of tactical retreat (they are deployed in a single line in the rear during deployment).

[athanaric]

If you expand into Central/Northern Europe, you may wish to hire Gaeroas or Dugundiz as mobile spear units, to coer the flanks against cavalry as well as to act in all kinds of supporting roles. Dugundiz are more reliable, while Gaeroas have more missiles and a wider AoR. I like to hire these because I feel that Romans (especially after their various reforms) are a bit short on spear units, and spamming Triarii is both unhistorical and relatively inefficient (restricted AoR, and high vulnerability to the likes of Sloxonez or Drapanai - against whom the aforementioned Barbarian spearmen carry javelins). Also, the Alps provide all sorts of versatile and reliable regional infantry.

When fighting in woods, logic dictates caution, i.e. not spreading/fanning out too far in any direction. Flexibility is key, and you should use flexible infantry units. I.e. those with more than one weapon.

Some units are of little use against Barbarian forces, e.g. Illyrian Clubmen (who're quite useful in the Mediterranean) - unless you keep them as a reserve force to tackle the few heavily armoured foes you meet (Gallic elites). They'll get eaten alive by Bataroas or just about any Swêboz unit.
Dito for (Polybian) Triarii, unless your enemy fields lots of cavalry.

[A_Dane]

heavy armor for damage taking (and pinning phalanxes), lighter infantry and especially AP units for flanking :p

[Stigmata]

well, if you wont chose rome for play, I may sugest carthage (for example)...

excelent hoplite like troops in africa, plus very good mercenaries in the late game

well, playing with them, my main army have the good hoplites of africa plus the great mercenaries of thrace (bastarnae and pelstats), the samnite extraordinariis and the naked warriors, and as well a heavy cavalry for support

for the gallic and german countryside maybe the hoplites can help to mantain the line while you use you AP units (like the bastarnae) and heavy cav to destroy the poor cavalry of the germans hehe
this tactic has always worked well againt the romans and the diadochi armies too (with some modifications of course)

ps: sorry the bad english
ps2: I HATE FOREST BATTLES

[Boriak]

Speaking of which, I noticed while checking Koinon's starting position that Greeks use very little Macedonian phalanxes and stick to hoplite style warfare, meaning something similar to Roman troops. Could someone explain what kind of troop composition they use while play Koinon's campaign?

[removeduser_052420]

Non-Phalanx Infantry Formations/Tactics
Missiles
Heavy, Light, Heavy
Reserve infantry
Cavalry arm

In this formation, you can see that the general is relying on his weaker center (usually bolstered by making the line thicker) to stall long enough for the heavy infantry on the wings to chop through the enemy's flanks. If successful, in combination with the cavalry arm, these wings of yours may prove deadly to the enemy ranks.

Hmm. This looks good. Although when will I know to deploy my reserve forces? When a unit in my main line routs?

Missiles
Light, Heavy, Light
Reserve Infantry
Cavalry arm

In this second formation, the general is relying on his weaker wings to hold long enough for the beast that lies in the centre to crush the enemy and break through his centre. If successful, the general will have split the enemy forces into two, cutting of support and crushing remaining units piecemeal.

Hmm. This also looks good. Although isn't this more dangerous, as it allows me to be surrounded more easily due to the weaker units on the outsides?

Pre-Marian Roman Legion Formations/Tactics
As Camillian or Polybian Rome you have several options available to you.

Missiles
Hastati
Principes
Triarii
Consvl + Cav

This seems to be the most popular arrangement for Camillian Rome, at least among players. The three lines are meant to be successive waves, only reaching for the Triarii if the situation becomes wary.

This makes sense. But wouldn't this formation make it harder to break the enemy? and how much time should I wait before sending in each successive line?

Missiles
Principes
Hastati
Triarii
Consvl + Cav

This formation is possibly closer to the actual Camillian battlefield formation. As you know, Camillian Principes use spears, and spears were the weapon of choice back in the day. The spearhead was reliable, and many swords were known to bend upon impact. In any case, this allows for a strong centre bolstered by the hoplite-fashioned Triarii, as well as Hastati medium swordsmen that may act as flanking infantry, supported by cavalry of course. The first formation is more popular when it comes to the Polybian era.

Yeah I quite like this one. Although how exactly am i supposed to flank using my hastati? Wouldn't they be too slow and ineffective? Sorry for the n00bness, btw

This triple-line formation usually is in a checkered fashion known as the quincunx. This allows for the first line to retreat, be replaced by the second line, rest, and then merge and coalesce with the second line. Such stamina and repeated attacks eventually cause the enemy to yield. When the Triarii are needed it usually means the situation is dire or you need to make a tactical retreat. The Triarii are great cover in times of tactical retreat (they are deployed in a single line in the rear during deployment).

About this... I tried to do this formation in a battle against the gauls, and got crushed due to the fact that my front line of soldiers got overwhelmed quickly. Also, I didn't know when to send in my second or third lines. And how am i supposed to use this formation effectively against larger enemies? Would I have to thin out my unit formations?

If you expand into Central/Northern Europe, you may wish to hire Gaeroas or Dugundiz as mobile spear units, to coer the flanks against cavalry as well as to act in all kinds of supporting roles. Dugundiz are more reliable, while Gaeroas have more missiles and a wider AoR. I like to hire these because I feel that Romans (especially after their various reforms) are a bit short on spear units, and spamming Triarii is both unhistorical and relatively inefficient (restricted AoR, and high vulnerability to the likes of Sloxonez or Drapanai - against whom the aforementioned Barbarian spearmen carry javelins). Also, the Alps provide all sorts of versatile and reliable regional infantry.

When fighting in woods, logic dictates caution, i.e. not spreading/fanning out too far in any direction. Flexibility is key, and you should use flexible infantry units. I.e. those with more than one weapon.

I see. But aern't javelin units easily outclassed by heavy/light cavalry?

[mamik_yev_konak]

Hmm. This looks good. Although when will I know to deploy my reserve forces? When a unit in my main line routs?

If you let any of your line troops fail, you will find it almost impossible to save the battle. If any of your line troops are low in number or shaken (or God forbid wavering), then run in a reserve troop to bolster their local numbers.

Hmm. This also looks good. Although isn't this more dangerous, as it allows me to be surrounded more easily due to the weaker units on the outsides?

Perhaps, but it all depends on how you play. If you are smart and form solid square blocks on the flanks and get on the defensive there, that will give your centre enough time to break a hole through the centre of the enemy (so centre troops are guard mode off).

This makes sense. But wouldn't this formation make it harder to break the enemy? and how much time should I wait before sending in each successive line?

The quincunx doesn't make it any harder to defeat the enemy. it is simply a 3 line technique that tires the enemy. You may choose to leave your first line in action and simply send in your second line once the first has tired. The enemy's exhausted men will have morale penalties (i.e. will be easier to defeat).

Yeah I quite like this one. Although how exactly am i supposed to flank using my hastati? Wouldn't they be too slow and ineffective?

Hastati aren't the worst flankers. They use swords no matter which era they are from. Use them to flank at least a quarter of the enemy's line (read: rear). The 3 side flank maneuver will give more penalties to enemy morale.

About this... I tried to do this formation in a battle against the gauls, and got crushed due to the fact that my front line of soldiers got overwhelmed quickly. Also, I didn't know when to send in my second or third lines. And how am i supposed to use this formation effectively against larger enemies? Would I have to thin out my unit formations?

This is why you may wish to make your line troops guard mode on, preventing them from pushing harder than they can handle. Against larger armies you use a thicker front and one that isn't as long. You'll get out-manned, out-flanked, but it's your only choice as a wider front will weaken your centre. A multiple line (read: 3 or more) thicker block army is far superior to a single line that is out-gunned by the enemy. Hold out. You will usually succeed unless the army has too many amour piercing troops (these usually need to be manually picked off by your own missiles, so turn attack at will off and micromanage this command).

I see. But aren't* javelin units easily outclassed by heavy/light cavalry?

Sure they are. What's the problem? You can use skirmishers and missile units to pick off enemy cavalry as long as your own missiles are either far away or behind your own spearmen.

[athanaric]

I see. But aern't javelin units easily outclassed by heavy/light cavalry?

Gaeroas aren't outclassed by cavalry, unless you bombard them with arrows and then go in with heavy cavalry. They're able to deal with any European cavalry of the timeframe.
Dugundiz or the various Alpine spearmen are even stronger vs cavalry. The Alpine Phalanx are especially nasty vs. armoured cavalry, due to wielding both a spear and an axe.

[Bonapartist]

How is nonphalanx warfare different from phalanx warfare?

1. You don't need to constantly concern yourself with maddening micromanagement.

2. You'll find yourself constantly frustrated as overpowered phalanx troops mow down your men at ratios approaching 4 - 1 despite similar quality and cost and tactics which avoid the phalanxes front.


Seriously though, you may be surprised that I tend to design my armies around missile troops. Archers allow me to define the battle by approaching just close enough for them to fire, and then using infantry to protect those troops when necessary. If the enemy wishes to foolishly pursue the missile troops and expose a weakness in their line, I'll then exploit it. If they pussyfoot around then the missile troops take their toll and attrition favors the side with more ranged troops, which is almost invariably me. Until you start fighting elite phalanxes and then nothing happens as they're bombarded with thousands of apparently weightless, dull arrows, javelins and pilum.

[mamik_yev_konak]

...nothing happens as they're bombarded with thousands of apparently weightless, dull arrows, javelins and pilum.

Keyword: Dull. We have an in-house comedian. Bravo, bravo.

To the player: shoot missile in the rear of the enemy phalanx. Anywhere else and you're wasting your missiles.