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  1. #1
    Ummon's Avatar Indefinitely Banned
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    Default Democratic and peaceful, indeed

    http://www.spacewar.com/2005/051026161740.itdbxg93.html

    Iranian's 'wipe Israel off map' words prompt sharp world response

    Widespread condemnation greeted remarks Wednesday by Iran's president that Israel should be wiped of the map, with Jerusalem seeing Teheran as a "clear and present danger" and Washington renewing concern about the Islamic Republic's nuclear aims.
    "We believe that Iran is trying to buy time .. so it can develop a nuclear bomb," said Israeli Foreign Minister Silvan Shalom in Jerusalem.

    "Iran is a clear and present danger," he said at a joint press conference in Jerusalem with visiting Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov.

    In Washington, the White House said the words of hardline Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad also underlined US concerns about Tehran's nuclear ambitions.

    "It just reconfirms what we have been saying about the regime in Iran. It underscores the concerns we have about Iran's nuclear operations," spokesman Scott McClellan told reporters.

    France will summon Iran's ambassador to Paris to question him over Ahmadinejad's call," Foreign Minister Philippe Douste-Blazy said.

    "I learned of the comments... according to which the president of Iran says he wants Israel to disappear and said the conflict in the Middle East would perpetuate a age-old fight between Jews and Muslims," Douste-Blazy said in a written statement.

    Ahmadinejad made the comments at a conference in Tehran entitled "The World Without Zionism".

    "As the Imam said, Israel must be wiped off the map," he said in a reference to Iran's late revolutionary leader Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini.

    His comments were the first time in years that such a high-ranking Iranian official had called for Israel's eradication, even though such slogans are still regularly used at regime rallies.

    In Berlin, the German government said the comments were "completely unacceptable".

    "If these comments were in fact made, they are completely unacceptable and should be condemned in the strongest terms," said foreign ministry spokesman Walter Lindner.

    Together with Britain and France, Germany is a member of the so-called EU3 group that is negotiating with Tehran over its controversial nuclear programme.

    In his speech Ahmadinejad said Israel's establishment was "a move by the world oppressor against the Islamic world".

    In Jerusalem, Shalom said Tehran had consistently shown its desire to wipe out Israel.

    "This is not the first time that this regime has wished for the destruction of the state of Israel," he said in remarks to reporters after the press conference.

    "This kind of regime is very, very extreme and it would be a nightmare for all the international community if they had a nuclear bomb.

    "We believe that the time has come to move the Iranian file to theSecurity Council and the sooner the better."

    But the Russian foreign minister differed, saying Moscow had no substantial evidence that "we have a clear and present danger" from Iran's nuclear programme.

    "We rely on the professional advice of the agency (International Atomic Energy Agency). It is too serious (an issue) to be guided by politics," Lavrov said.

    The IAEA board of governors passed a resolution in September finding Iran to be in non-compliance with the nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT).

    That paved the way for the matter to be referred to the UN Security Council if Iran fails to suspend all nuclear fuel work or to cooperate fully with the IAEA investigation.

    Russia, which has a lucrative contract to build Iran's first nuclear power reactor, has a veto on the Security Council.

    Iran says that its nuclear programme is a peaceful effort to generate electricity. Washington and Israel claim the programme is weapons-related.
    The light of Islam shines brighter and brighter. Nuclear-hot, one might say...

  2. #2
    First Crusader's Avatar Senator
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    Iran is a problem. All twelve remaining reservists not in Iraq yet should be dispatched immediately...

    Luckily, Israel already has enough nukes to wipe out the Arabs as a race, so I don't think Iran is going to try anything for now.
    Heresy grows from idleness.

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  3. #3
    Bovril's Avatar Primicerius
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    Quote Originally Posted by First Crusader
    Luckily, Israel already has enough nukes to wipe out the Arabs as a race, so I don't think Iran is going to try anything for now.
    Very few Iranian nationals are ethnic arabs.

    Of course Iranian talk of wiping Israel off the map is so much demagoguery. Israel with nukes is safe. However, Israel with nukes (and Israel was building them long before anyone else in the region was accused of doing so) means a Middle East with nuclear aspirations. You can't blame the Iranian leadership for wanting nuclear weapons when their mortal enemy also has them.

  4. #4

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    Iran can't/wont do anything except run their mouths off about how they will wipe Isreal for domestic propoganda.
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  5. #5
    First Crusader's Avatar Senator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kanaric
    Iran can't/wont do anything except run their mouths off about how they will wipe Isreal for domestic propoganda.
    Agreed. Like I said in my previous post, I think this is all just hot air.

    But it still trashes the "Islam means Peace" mantra.
    Heresy grows from idleness.

    No cause for such alarm. There are many ways for you to die - I'm just one of them.

  6. #6
    Tom Paine's Avatar Mr Common Sense
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    Quote Originally Posted by First Crusader
    Agreed. Like I said in my previous post, I think this is all just hot air.

    But it still trashes the "Islam means Peace" mantra.
    So GW going to war trashes a Christianity means peace mantra? Nah, the extreme as mainstream approach just doesn't work.

    But no Middle-Eastern state should have nukes, Israel included. If any has them, then they all want them for the sake of "fairness". What I want to know is how the West are going to legally stop Iran from producing nuclear power....

  7. #7
    First Crusader's Avatar Senator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squeakus Maximus
    So GW going to war trashes a Christianity means peace mantra? Nah, the extreme as mainstream approach just doesn't work.
    Unfortunately, the Koran and many mainstream Muslims throughout the world do believe that war is the way to spread the faith.

    But no Middle-Eastern state should have nukes, Israel included. If any has them, then they all want them for the sake of "fairness". What I want to know is how the West are going to legally stop Iran from producing nuclear power....
    In an ideal world, countries run by fanatics like North Korea and Iran wouldn't have nukes, but I have no idea how we could stop them.
    Heresy grows from idleness.

    No cause for such alarm. There are many ways for you to die - I'm just one of them.

  8. #8
    Tom Paine's Avatar Mr Common Sense
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    Quote Originally Posted by First Crusader
    In an ideal world, countries run by fanatics like North Korea and Iran wouldn't have nukes, but I have no idea how we could stop them.
    It isn't actually that hard to. First step: don't sell them nuclear technology. Doh! Too late. Second, don't allow thm to get thir hands on fissile material. Impossible in Iran's ase, don't know about N. Korea. Third step, incentive to not use/disincentive to using, ie bribery and blackmail. And there you have it. Of course signatories to the NPT are legally allowed to develope nuclear power... doh, we screwed up, from there they can get nukes. Heh.

  9. #9
    Erik's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Quote Originally Posted by First Crusader
    Unfortunately, the Koran and many mainstream Muslims throughout the world do believe that war is the way to spread the faith.
    Wel said "First Crusader". :laughing:

    ---
    Anyways, what is the article about, realy?

    So somebody accuses (with no evidence) that the Iranian prime minister wants to see Israel go.
    And this is news exactly because?

    And my second question:
    This is related to Iran's peacefull nuclear power program, becasue?

    Oh wait, I know:
    Americans must get the impression (based of fact or fiction) Iran is pure evil so they are encouraged to wage a "pre-emptive" war agaist this oil rich nation.
    Or must I beleive www.spacewars.com is unbiased in this matter?



  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by First Crusader
    Unfortunately, the Koran and many mainstream Muslims throughout the world do believe that war is the way to spread the faith.

    In an ideal world, countries run by fanatics like North Korea and Iran wouldn't have nukes, but I have no idea how we could stop them.
    Have to say, I am surprised USA and Iran do not get along better with their similarities. Or perhaps they have too many similarities.

    For example your first chapter about mainstream muslims believing war is the way to spread the faith.
    Mainstream USA seems to think war is the way to spread their idealism.
    Pot and kettle? One is talking about starting a war and another has started one.

    Both have strongly religious politics where leaders often quote their favourite holy books.


    Everyone is warhero, genius and millionaire in Internet, so don't be surprised that I'm not impressed.

  11. #11
    Pra's Avatar Sir Lucious Left Foot
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    Quote Originally Posted by First Crusader
    Agreed. Like I said in my previous post, I think this is all just hot air.

    But it still trashes the "Islam means Peace" mantra.
    I'm sure some Islam means Peace, like the Sufis in India, yet most Islamic Countries, unfortunately, seem to be more belligerent.
    Under patronage of Emperor Dimitricus Patron of vikrant1986, ErikinWest, VOP2288


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  12. #12
    Tom Paine's Avatar Mr Common Sense
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prarara
    I'm sure some Islam means Peace, like the Sufis in India, yet most Islamic Countries, unfortunately, seem to be more belligerent.
    And many Christian countries, and the Jewish nation, seem to be belligerent, but you don't see them declaimed as violent religions worldwide!

  13. #13
    Pra's Avatar Sir Lucious Left Foot
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squeakus Maximus
    And many Christian countries, and the Jewish nation, seem to be belligerent, but you don't see them declaimed as violent religions worldwide!
    Actually, they are; by the Muslim nations no?
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    Anagennese, the Rise of the Black Hand

    MacMillan doesn't compensate for variable humidity,wind speed and direction or the coriolis effect. Mother nature compensates for where Macmillan's crosshairs are.

  14. #14
    Major König's Avatar Civitate
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kanaric
    Iran can't/wont do anything except run their mouths off about how they will wipe Isreal for domestic propoganda.
    Fortunatly, you are right. Iran doesn't have the capabilities. But we have to remember, it is very possible they will hurt many people one day. Someone has to stop them right now, before soemthing happenes.

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Achilles_47
    Fortunatly, you are right. Iran doesn't have the capabilities. But we have to remember, it is very possible they will hurt many people one day. Someone has to stop them right now, before soemthing happenes.
    I doubt they would even if they had the means. They are just using their form of government and propoganda to stay in power, if they actually acted on it I doubt they would have real support in their country to act on it. Also I doubt they believe that they would successfully attack any country. Even if they used nuclear weapons they would be wiped off the face of the map and the whole persian culture would come to an end.

    I'd bet a anti-clerical revolution would happen before that.
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  16. #16
    Big War Bird's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Ahmadinejad made the comments at a conference in Tehran entitled "The World Without Zionism".

    "As the Imam said, Israel must be wiped off the map," he said in a reference to Iran's late revolutionary leader Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini.
    He doesn't mean that. Really. It's all just posturing to gain votes at the next fixed election anyway. I mean what has Iran ever really done to Israel anyway? He's pulling your leg. Really, Just ignore it and it will go away. There is no need to do anything here. Iran means no harm to Israel. They want no Jews!!
    Last edited by Big War Bird; October 26, 2005 at 03:59 PM.
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  17. #17

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    Iran can say whatever they want, but I'll laugh when Israel pulls another attack like the one in June 1981 when they destroyed Iraq's reactor. If you think America could care less as to what the world thinks - look at Israel. They do whatever they want.

  18. #18
    First Crusader's Avatar Senator
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    @Erik

    Wel said "First Crusader".
    -"Crusade" is just a word derived from the word "cross", so it is not necessarily a violent venture; it can be used to refer to any holy project or pilgrimage.

    -The Crusades you are thinking of occured more than a millenium ago. The Jihad is happening NOW.
    Heresy grows from idleness.

    No cause for such alarm. There are many ways for you to die - I'm just one of them.

  19. #19

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    This is bs and you all know it.
    Obviously they have to officialy hate Israel, just like America has to officialy be the bringer of freedom demoracy and all that other crap.
    Everyone has an official agenda and a hidden one, only idiots believe in the official ones.





  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by RusskiSoldat
    Everyone has an official agenda and a hidden one, only idiots believe in the official ones.

    You lost me here Russki.

    By your logic we are to rest easy in the knowledge that this is just Iran's "Official" agenda and not their "Hidden" agenda?

    What's their "Hidden" agenda??? Make peace with Isreal??? Ummm, I doubt it.

    It's probably along the lines of "wipe out life on earth and replace all with Muslims".


    So what's your point again??
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