Iraqi Constitution Passed

[Farnan]

Just watched the news, and learned the the Constitution in Iraq has passed.

[ExcaliburFIN]

Hahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhaha. I think votes has been faked. No offence but bad try cheat. No offence, George.

[Oldgamer]

Just watched the news, and learned the the Constitution in Iraq has passed.

Right. Next, the people of Iraq will elect a permanent government, in December of this year. The insurgents will have as much luck at disrupting that process as they did this one.

Hahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhaha. I think votes has been faked. No offence but bad try cheat. No offence, George.

And your evidence for this charge is? ...

[Erik]

Right. Next, the people of Iraq will elect a permanent government, in December of this year. The insurgents will have as much luck at disrupting that process as they did this one.

The insurgents didn't WANT to disrupt the referendum, that's why there were so few attacks on the day of the referendum compared to the days before and after.
They WANTED many Sunni's to vote because most Sunni's are against this constitution, and if they voted 2/3 against in 3 states the constitution would be rejected.

I think this result is a very dangerous one because the vast majority of Sunni's voted against.
The Sunni's wil feel like this constitution is forced on them by the Shiites and Kurds, and in a way it is.
This isn't a good basis for a peacefull democracy at all and can easily result in a civil war if the Shiites and Kurds use this constitution agaist the Sunni's.

[Oldgamer]

The insurgents didn't WANT to disrupt the referendum, that's why there were so few attacks on the day of the referendum compared to the days before and after.
They WANTED many Sunni's to vote because most Sunni's are against this constitution, and if they voted 2/3 against in 3 states the constitution would be rejected.

I think this result is a very dangerous one because the vast majority of Sunni's voted against.
The Sunni's wil feel like this constitution is forced on them by the Shiites and Kurds, and in a way it is.
This isn't a good basis for a peacefull democracy at all and can easily result in a civil war if the Shiites and Kurds use this constitution agaist the Sunni's.

Of course, the insurgents wanted to disrupt the referendum. The last thing that they want in Iraq is a constitutional democracy and a legitimate, multi-lateral, recognised federal government. Concerning the Sunnis, they could have trounced the constitution in three separate heavily Sunni provinces, and they failed to do so. 78% of the Iraqi people voted for this constitution, with a 64% turnout.

This is not a dangerous vote result. This will enable the Sunnis to fully participate in their own government, rather than be led by the Jihadis into civil war, which could only result in their destruction. They are a 19% minority.

And haven't you been keeping track of the democracy process? You can't see that the entire process hasn't been used against the Sunnis? I know that you don't want to see civil war erupt in Iraq. However, it sounds like you do, and this gives the insurgents hope.

Dr. Zoid,

Where did you find this film clip? Hopefully, it wasn't on Al Jazeera ...

Besides, what democracy doesn't have some fraud? In the United States, thousands of the Democratic dead vote in every election, in Chicago. How do you think Kennedy was elected President in 1960?

[Dr Zoidberg]

Dr. Zoid,

Where did you find this film clip? Hopefully, it wasn't on Al Jazeera ...

It was shown on the Aussie International news on our indpendent channel SBS which is arguably one of the most objective news boradcasters out there.

Besides, what democracy doesn't have some fraud?

Oh granted all democracy has fraud but what was amusing was the blatant way in which it was occuring in IRaq. FOr instance, the guy with seven forms wasn't even hiding it. Other people were watching him tick yes seven times.

I just dont think that the vote was 'honest' enough (to use a crude term) to accurately reflect the feelings of the Iraqi people. While a constituion is obviously a good thing, I dont think it will help to ease the racial/ethnic/religious tensions in the country. It might make things worse.

[BassV2]

Constitution Monstitution, do you really think Constitution is useful in any sense? Will aconstitution stop the insurgents? Will a constitution drop the weapons? Will a constitution send Soldiers home? will a constitution increase the President's IQ to that of a rock ?

No to all Questions.

[Erik]

Of course, the insurgents wanted to disrupt the referendum. The last thing that they want in Iraq is a constitutional democracy and a legitimate, multi-lateral, recognised federal government. Concerning the Sunnis, they could have trounced the constitution in three separate heavily Sunni provinces, and they failed to do so. 78% of the Iraqi people voted for this constitution, with a 64% turnout.

This is not a dangerous vote result. This will enable the Sunnis to fully participate in their own government, rather than be led by the Jihadis into civil war, which could only result in their destruction. They are a 19% minority.

OK, lets analyze the result, shall we?

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/i...titution_x.htm
Nationwide, 79% of the 9.8 million voters approved the charter, the electoral commission reported.

However, two heavily Sunni provinces rejected the constitution by wide margins. In Anbar province, west of Baghdad, 97% voted against the document. In Salah al-Din, north of the capital, 82% rejected it.

The constitution would have been defeated if two-thirds of voters in any three of Iraq's 18 provinces voted against it.

In Ninevah, a mixed region of Sunni Arabs, Shiites and Kurds, 55% voted against the constitution, but that was below the two-thirds threshold.

In short: about 90% of Sunni's voted no and about 90% of Kurds and Shiites voted yes.
This is an increadable ethnic division.
And it's this division, not the result that is so dangerous.

And haven't you been keeping track of the democracy process? You can't see that the entire process hasn't been used against the Sunnis? I know that you don't want to see civil war erupt in Iraq. However, it sounds like you do, and this gives the insurgents hope.

Sure.
Many insurgents visit TWC and read my post.
And they wil find hope and inspiration in what I say.
Insurgent: "Don't give up hope guys! Erik thinks we still have a chance"

And of course I don't want civil war.
That was why I always opposed the war.
I always knew it wil end in civil war but don't blame the messenger, ok?

[danzig]

In short: about 90% of Sunni's voted no and about 90% of Kurds and Shiites voted yes.
This is an increadable ethnic division.
And it's this division, not the result that is so dangerous.

Well then that is the Sunni's problem, when eventually western troops leave Iraq Im sure the Kurds and Shias will be kind to the Sunnis....if the Sunnis were smart they would have siezed upon this chance because they are vastly outnumbered and there isnt going to be a buffer zone there forever and eventually they are going to have to pay a price for the violence they are dishing out.

[Dr Zoidberg]

And your evidence for this charge is? ...

There was footage showing many voters filling out multiple ballot papers. One paticular guy was filmed filling out seven seperate ballots, all yes votes.

There was vote rigging/fraud in this election, definitely. However, that doesn't deny the fact that an Iraqi consitution is probably a good thing in the long run.

[ExcaliburFIN]

Ho could ever belive that in some parts of country have 2/3 yes - votes? And they maked new law so there was almoust no chance to fall that constitution. It is cheating yo make law so that there is no chance lose.

[Oldgamer]

Ho could ever belive that in some parts of country have 2/3 yes - votes? And they maked new law so there was almoust no chance to fall that constitution. It is cheating yo make law so that there is no chance lose.

My young friend, a 2/3 yes vote is nothing unusual, especially in a country where the privilege to vote has been suppressed for thirty years. In my own county, I've seen 90% plus votes against certain measures (for example, a law that would have created a county-wide board to zone all land, including farmland).

Consider also that the percentage of "yes" votes in Iraq have gone down, since Saddam. I believe he was re-elected by a 100% margin in his last election ...

[GORE]

the only major opposition to the constitution was from the sunni arabs, who only make up 20% of the population.

i just hope they form the government more smoothy than making the constitution, we can only wait and see.

[imb39]

I'm surprised, but well done Iraqi Parliament.

[Boudicca]

I have hope that peace may prevail in Iraq and this war of terrorists against the american and iraqi forces will end as soon as possible now. The Iraqui people have a right to self govern themselves and I hope they will do so in the future.

I was opposed to the American invasion in Iraq in the first place, and I still think the war was illegal. However, the right of choice of the Iraqui people always existed, not depending on Saddam deprieving them of it or the US turning them towards a specific dircetion. I think people are very well able to make their choice. And I still have enough trust in the US to believe them in the legality of an election than in believing it was illegal from sources coming from a direction, I'd rather not have faith in, as it does not value a human life much.

The Iraqui people certainly had more choice under the US occupation than under Saddams supression.

[BassV2]

I'm surprised, but well done Iraqi Parliament.

The Iraqi Parliament with US soldiers in it.

[Empyrean]

Great. In the name of "Democracy" (that's the justification at the moment, right?) we have overthrown a tyrannical secular state and replaced it with an Islamic time-bomb. Looks like the Shi'ites have both Iran and Iraq now. That's just fabulous.

The Shi'ites like the idea of democracy in Iraq because they are the majority of the population. After we're gone, we'll see unjust government rise up again, only this time it won't be a counterbalance to Iran's ambitions of a pan-Arab State.

[Tom Paine]

Good, so long as it is enforced and treats all the groups (Kurds, Sunnis, Shi'ites, et cetera) equally well. However I'm not sure that can happen.

[the_mango55]

I dont think that the sunnis will allow that to happen. They have gotten so used to their position of power, they dont want to accept equality without a fight. Eventually I think it will settle down, and Iraq will hopefully be a more secular islamic state like Turkey.

[Empyrean]

Turkey is definitely a best-possible scenario for Iraq. They were a good ally in NATO... too bad we ticked them off so bad over Iraq. Was the friendship of the Kurds worth sacrificing the friendship of Turkey? I sure don't think so.