A third Australian Party

[Marshal Qin]

Sure we have the Dems and Greens (+One nation if it still exists) but they don't really provide an alternative to the current 2 party system. The Dems and Greens seem to be single issue oriented rather than offering a viable alternative government. What would it take to either make them come up with a full platform as an alternative or to start a new party that will survive being crushed by Libs(Nats) and Labour?

I think that the Greens could possibly do it, but they need a name change and to broaden their focus. With the right prodding, they could possibly take the bush (not the US one) from the nats with proper land management policies that balance land use and conservation (our farmers aren't stupid) and the young urban/university people from the Democrats. Taking the 'workers' and 'yuppies' away from Labour and Liberal might take a bit of work though. They'ld need a sexy campaign for the yuppies and some solid support for families to take voters away from the big 2.

Ideas?

I've actually thought about going into politics in Oz when I return, possibly with the Greens, but I don't want to face the Hanson debacle or something similar. Someone has to do it before Howard kills what it means to be an Aussie.

[Guderian]

That's a tough one, it's virtually impossible for the greens or the democrats to come to power. Don't know much about the policies of the Dems. But for the Greens to come to power they have to change thier policies and this in turn means losing traditional voter and also becoming a political party (as in playing the game of politics) like the Libs and Labour, this is the last thing I want to see happen.

I think it's mostly the younger Aussies who vote for Howard, and the only reason is because he is the "popular" choice, when it's election time a typical young Aussie (18-30) doesn't really care about the politics. Howard promises stabilty and security while keeping the beauracratic, diplomactic, social and economic decisions within the government. I'm sad to say this but that's what is appealing to the younger generation. The greens are depicted as "hippies" and "tree huggers" within this group.

Older Aussies on the other hand are fed up with Howard's policies of destroying Australian community values and replacing them with capitalistic values (the traditional Aussies values like family and mateship are now being associated with yobbos whereas American capitalist BS is being accepted more by society). But labour is just a running joke at the moment (and for the last 2 elections) so they are afraid to put the country in thier hands. And they are not going to vote for the Greens because they see them as anti-religion and too liberal.

The solution I see is to get enough votes for the Greens to keep them in parliament as a balancing force against labour and the liberals. The biggest mistake we've made is giving Howard full control of parliament. While they might not win the election they will still have the power to counter some of Howard's more elitist policies and also keep an eye on the bastard.

I've actually thought about going into politics in Oz when I return, possibly with the Greens, but I don't want to face the Hanson debacle or something similar. Someone has to do it before Howard kills what it means to be an Aussie.

Good luck with that, just don't get caught up on the politics of politics. This is what destroyed labour, it's members are more concerned about status and winning elections than actually representing the workers.

[ThiudareiksGunthigg]

Given the shambling disaster the ALP has become, I think what Australia really needs right now is a second political party. The Libs are getting major changes like the new IR 'reforms' and (particularly) the new Anti-Terrorism legislation to slip past most of the electorate's attention because the bumbling Opposition is too busy blaming each other for their fourth mauling at the polls in a row to get any objections heard.

When 'Howard's Battlers' wake up one day and find Howard has turned our country into a mini version of the US it will be all too late.

[Guderian]

e Libs are getting major changes like the new IR 'reforms' and (particularly) the new Anti-Terrorism legislation to slip past most of the electorate's attention because the bumbling Opposition is too busy blaming each other for their fourth mauling at the polls in a row to get any objections heard.

So true, yet so depressing it makes me want to cry...

[ThiudareiksGunthigg]

So true, yet so depressing it makes me want to cry...

Me too. We're living in a weird political environment when one of the best critiques of the anti-terrorism laws in recent weeks was not written by the Leader of the Opposition, but by Malcolm Fraser!

What the hell ... ?

[imb39]

We're in a virtually similar position in Britain. It's very depressing when there is no opposition - generally due to the incompetence of other parties, it must be said... Labour has had free reign for 8 years. As much as I dislike the Conservatives, I still want them to be dangerous - ie putting the government under pressure.

[Marshal Qin]

I've been away from Oz for 4 years and watching it steadily decline. Maybe I'm just starting to show my age, but I'm really starting to appreciate how we were and dread what we are becoming. I believe that in a developed country we have the luxury of being able to choose to have a little waste in the interests of a better lifestyle, but Howard seems to want us to become some sort of economic robot workforce with little chance of advancement economically, and limited access to a good education. This push for efficiency is all well and good, but it shouldn't be at the expense of lifestyle. Labour, well, its been said already. Beazely has said a few of the right things but he is too deeply embroiled in party politics (like the rest of them) to be able to effect any real changes if he comes to power.

Good luck with that, just don't get caught up on the politics of politics. This is what destroyed labour, it's members are more concerned about status and winning elections than actually representing the workers.

lol, if you knew me you'ld know there is little chance of that happening, though I wonder if it takes being a typical politician to succeed in the game. Mavericks and those who don't follow the accepted path seem to get isolated and destroyed from what I've seen. Its kind of funny what you said about representing the workers, I'm living in China at the moment and having to push really hard to get the 'party members' and leadership in my organisation to actually care about the people who work for them. So much for communism. I'm not 'red' but I care more about 'the workers' than the party does afaik.

[militiaman]

I totally agree, it'd be good to see the greens as a 3rd major party, though they need a bit of a reform for it to work. But as ThiudareiksGunthigg also said we need a stronger second party. Way too unstable at the moment. Maybe once old Johnny retires we'll see some changes for the better. Right now he's too much of a stable choice as Guderian put it, so even if the ALP pulled its act together and the Greens became a 3rd major party I can see him still winning. End your reign of terror now, you've already done too much damage! Or would ending it make things even worse...

[Guderian]

The comic in the Opinions and Letters section of todays Sydney morning herlad says it all. It's titled "spring favourites" and has a horse named Coalition leading slightly which is literally being carried by John Howard, coming in at a close second (which is debatable) is a horse named "ALP" rode by Kim Beazly who is facing the wrong way. LOL

lol, if you knew me you'ld know there is little chance of that happening, though I wonder if it takes being a typical politician to succeed in the game. Mavericks and those who don't follow the accepted path seem to get isolated and destroyed from what I've seen. Its kind of funny what you said about representing the workers, I'm living in China at the moment and having to push really hard to get the 'party members' and leadership in my organisation to actually care about the people who work for them. So much for communism. I'm not 'red' but I care more about 'the workers' than the party does afaik.

True, I think it has something to do with beauracracy and heirachy of politics, what makes you want to become a politician doesn't help you in the game of politics or to quote what someone said to me recently "its not what but who you know" :wink:

[Marshal Qin]

What your really saying is that it seems that those who actually care ,or who could be good leaders, are weeded out by the system before they ever get the chance to do any good.

Bloody typical. How is civilisation ever going to progress if we end up stuck with a system that promotes beaureauocrats instead of leaders and penalises those with vision? As you said earlier, it makes you want to weep in frustration.

"Frustration: the inability to choke the living :wub: out of someone who desperately deserves it"

[Guderian]

Yep exactly, but what can ya do, until we can come up with something better beauracracy, government and politics will go hand in hand with each other.

"Frustration: the inability to choke the living :wub: out of someone who desperately deserves it"

If it were only that easy...