When did the West start loathing Russia?

[Sirota]

Siberian Intervention? Great game with Britain, who started spreading anti-Russian propaganda around it's colonial Empire? Crimean War? Napoleon?

[Jagdpanzer]

Next time try Wikipedia first: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Russian_sentiment

[iamme]

Ever since the Bolsheviks took power. In fact right after WWI Britain actually launched a naval raid to st. Petersburg. You can guess why the west would hate communism.

[Adar]

For Sweden I would have to say 16th century. Caused by the massacres of Finns during the Swedish-Russian wars and the actions of Ivan the Terrible. The moral indignation among the nobility as Erik XIV considered the possibility of handing over Katarina Jagellonica (wife of his brother Duke Johan) to Ivan the terrible could probably be seen as an institutionalized dislike of Russian culture.

This disregard for Russian culture can also be seen in the decision to not adequatly respond to the suggestions to make Karl Philip (Gustav II Adolfs younger brother) Tsar of Russia in the early 17th century.

The "loathing" of Russia was turned into fear/hatred after their victory in the great northern war but dissipated during the late 18th and early 19th century. Swedish families had significant economic interests in Russia from the 19th century up until the Russian revolution. The family of Alfred Nobel did for example work and live in St Petersburg and made much of their fortune from oil in Baku.

So loathing of Russia in Sweden would probably be considered common in 15XX to 1721.

[Carach]

Nikitn bypassing his suspensions again? or is it one of the others? *goes and checks which one is under suspension this month*


Perhaps the west began to dislike Russia when it began questionable policies on europe's horizon, then again when attempted the destruction of the Ottoman Empire, then again when the reds won the civil war and proclaimed a worldwide revolution as their ultimate goal. Then again before ww2 when making pacts with the other bad guys (nazis) to remove poland as a sovereign state along with the baltic countries, the invasion of finland, the mass murder in general that went on under soviet rule (throughout)..... during ww2 the refusal to allow democratic elections as previously promised to the other members of the allies - instead choosing to puppeteer them against all opposition, then the whole nuclear war threat thing that tended to crop up during the cold war..and now again because putin and his possy continue to use obselete violence in diplomacy.

Take your pick basically. Personally i find Russia's history one long horrible nightmare that tended to spill over into its neighbours, but alas (i am afterall one of those resident russophobes, apparently..)

[Trax]

I think it goes back much further maybe 15th-16th century.
Muscovites being vile savages and all that.

[wilpuri]

I think it goes back much further maybe 15th-16th century.
Muscovites being vile savages and all that.

Or then we could go back to the Great Schism of 1054...

[conon394]

Siberian Intervention? Great game with Britain, who started spreading anti-Russian propaganda around it's colonial Empire? Crimean War? Napoleon?

Sorry I see no Russian loathing but simple Great power politics. Its not like Russia did not also get along with the West ally to England against Nappy and in WW1, cut up Poland with Germany and Austria.

[Nik]

When Nikitn, Kirov et al started their "RUSSIA IS BEST" Hype on this forums? ;-)

[wilpuri]

I think it became more common in Western & Central Europe after the Napoleonic Wars, when Russia became the undisputed military power of continental Europe. Russian expansion began to clash with mainly British but also French colonial interests.

[Razvus]

or that time when they had half of Europe dressed in red for half a century. (last century)

[wilpuri]

or that time when they had half of Europe dressed in red for half a century. (last century)

But it didn't really start then, and even then the loathing was directed, at least initially, against the Bolsheviks, not Russians.

[removeduser_487563287433]

Siberian Intervention? Great game with Britain, who started spreading anti-Russian propaganda around it's colonial Empire? Crimean War? Napoleon?

Only since the Bolsheviks, because that represented a possible internal threat to all western states, and since then Russia has failed to return to European norms of Government.

[wilpuri]

Only since the Bolsheviks, because that represented a possible internal threat to all western states, and since then Russia has failed to return to European norms of Government.

The British Isles experianced rabid anti-Russian sentiment already in the 19th century, prior to the Crimea War.

[removeduser_487563287433]

The British Isles experianced rabid anti-Russian sentiment already in the 19th century, prior to the Crimea War.

The British Isles experienced rabid (insert European nation here) anti-sentiment at some point in its history, too.

[wilpuri]

The British Isles experienced rabid (insert European nation here) anti-sentiment at some point in its history, too.

The question was when did the West start loathing Russia. Its roots can be traced to the Great Game, clash of British (and French) and Russian imperial interests and Russian growth into the biggest military power of Europe, "The Gendarme of Europe".

[removeduser_487563287433]

Yes but neither Britain nor France nor indeed Britain and France equate to the West, and of course relations had improved by the time of the Triple Entente.

[wilpuri]

Yes but neither Britain nor France nor indeed Britain and France equate to the West, and of course relations had improved by the time of the Triple Entente.

They are traditionally seen as Western European powers, and they began to loath Russia during the 19th century. Of course, once unified Germany came along, you had a common enemy, for a while.

Let's not try to obfuscate facts. The popular image of the Russian in Western Europe as a half-Asian tyrant emerged with great power politics (The Great Game) in the 19th century - not with the Russian revolution, which was largely lead by non-Russians.

[removeduser_487563287433]

They are traditionally seen as Western European powers, and they began to loath Russia during the 19th century. Of course, once unified Germany came along, you had a common enemy, for a while.

Let's not try to obfuscate facts. The popular image of the Russian in Western Europe as a half-Asian tyrant emerged with great power politics (The Great Game) in the 19th century - not with the Russian revolution, which was largely lead by non-Russians.

But again I'd argue you could illustrate such stereotyping of any nations. Britain and Russia had close ties by the time of World War I, with the royal families closely related and on good terms. You can point to moments when Britain and Russia were opposed, such as the Crimean, the Great Game, etc and when they were allied, such as the Napoleonic Wars and the Boxer Rebellion. You can't really argue for perpetual hate.

[wilpuri]

But again I'd argue you could illustrate such stereotyping of any nations. Britain and Russia had close ties by the time of World War I, with the royal families closely related and on good terms. You can point to moments when Britain and Russia were opposed, such as the Crimean, the Great Game, etc and when they were allied, such as the Napoleonic Wars and the Boxer Rebellion. You can't really argue for perpetual hate.

Sigh.

Russia became a potential enemy of Western powers in the 19th century. There is an unbroken tradition of anti-Russian sentiment in Western Europe that developed during that time. Saying this anti-Russian sentiment started with the Bolsheviks is like saying that European anti-Americanism started with the 2003 invasion of Iraq, since there was increased, even if brief, solidarity after 9/11.

The Great Game and the 19th century is the century when Russia and Western powers became geopolitical rivals, and this rivalry has continued pretty much unbroken, with brief intervals when Western Powers and Russia have co-operated against (re-)emerging Germany.

If we want to trace the beginnings of Western Anti-Russian sentiment, which is geopolitical in nature, we must look to the 19th century. The Russian revolution and spread of communism caused anti-"russianism" was more internal and ideological in nature. But USSR presented the same geopolitical rivalry as Tsarist Russia had, and there is a clear continuum up to this day.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_Great_Game