Allies system totally broken? 4/4 allies failed me

[Nosocked]

So starting on a early campaign on the turks, I send out positive vibes towards every single nation. Trade for every one, and I ally Egypt, and give them land for duel military access, then hungary, and cuman pagans, and even the persian whores.

After focusing all of my military might on taking the byzentines out, on the other side, the Kwarz attack with five stacks. I send a stack to backdoor the persian gulf cities and sack them all to delay the invasion.. It works, I make alot of money sacking but losing my stack.

As I'm backdooring the byzentines by invading Athens and Corenth, Cuman attacks even though I helped them reclaim TWO cities on my border from the Russians.

They sent a boat to a fail trade city.

Then I get egypt declaring war and having a stack on all of my border cities, just before laying seige.

My catholic ally lays seige to their former city that I bribed off them. I even gave them Athens and Corenth so they could be drawn into my byzentine war.

To cope with this, I give byzentine ALL of my border cities as to stall their advance in return for a tribute and a ceasefire as they fight the islamic whores and catholic pansys.

So to summerize everything. All of my four allies were given land in return for military access for both parties and a strong allience with relations at perfect.

Then at a turning point, somewhere after capturing the jihad target of Constantinople, everyone turned against me with about twenty stacks verses my 5 stacks.


Why the hell did everyone turn against me? The Templars got extinct before the 20th turn, I gave them land but didnt ally as to not to piss the egyptians. I saw a whole bunch of templar history facts, would that mean if they were alive, they were granted a bunch of free stacks?

I'm getting pummpled in the ass. Five stacks on ONE city, STACKS on each of my southern cities, pagan horde about to all get on me, and my measily army are all in europe and moblizing in crete to backdoor/counter attack egypt at its core.

Every single enemy that I'm fighting is at perfect or at least at very good (besides byz) and is ready to wipe me off the face of the map.

What the Kong. About 50 turns in, totally troll the hell out of me. Good going, now I hate this game.

[charles the hammer]

What did you do to the cities you conquered and armies you destroyed? If you slaughter the prisoners and exterminate the populations your rep will fall and alliances will to. Or you are playing VH and they will turn anyway.

[Nosocked]

I'm playing vh/hard, and either released, or occupied every city that didnt give an amazing profit of a sack.

If they are supposted to turn on your on hard, what is the point of having allies even available in vh.

I got used by my allies in their settlement captures, and then they exterminated my stacks.
They have a better reputation than me. I don't use spies or assassians offensivly.

I mad.

[Caesar Clivus]

What version of SS are you playing?

[CamilleBonparte]

You're playing on Very Hard and complaining that the game is very hard?

[Neptune7]

Sounds like a nightmare nosocks, that's why I play on Medium/Medium......

[Ichon]

Don't try to ally with everyone first of all... if they make alliances too and then go to war with you the AI will pick its AI allies every time over you. Best is to usually pick 1 faction to be an ally and get it into a war vs your enemies. K-Shah is perfect as Turks since you can get it fighting either Egypt or Cumans and sometimes even Byz.

Land for peace is over-rated. The AI does not give this any more weight than cash and you are penalized for retaking cities you gave/sold away. If you are desperate or captured a city you can't defend anyway then sell that sure... don't sell crucial border cities or try to buy a faction's allegiance with giving them territory. It does not work. Best method for maintaining allies is as I said above- ally with 1 and get common enemies and pay a small but constant tribute.

On VH even this does not always work but it usually works long enough until you can handle an alliance being broken. Every other faction that is a neighbor is an enemy should be part of your plans even if they are neutral for now. That won't last.

For instance you could have allied with K-Shah and Crusaders... helping Crusaders occasionally with war vs Egypt they can handle mostly on their own with small help. K-Shah vs Cumans and Byz/Egypt puts their armies away from your borders and also distracts your other enemies. Even if such alliances don't last, they are likely at least not to fall apart at the same time.

Finally... never strip an entire border of armies. That is laying out the welcome mat for a backstab. 4 armies vs Byz is enough, heck even 3 is probably enough. Leaving 1-2 to discourage backstab can actually work, or at least delay the AI attack as it tries to get enough forces to beat your defending armies.

[davethelucky]

Sounds like a nightmare nosocks, that's why I play on Medium/Medium......

I can only approve that! Tried to play on H/H several times and it was no fun. And I don't the difficulty itself but the unreasonable actions of your opponents...

[Ichon]

I can only approve that! Tried to play on H/H several times and it was no fun. And I don't the difficulty itself but the unreasonable actions of your opponents...

Unreasonably aggressive you mean? It can be annoying I suppose when you first start but eventually you get used to thinking of the entire world as an enemy. Occasional fleet raids on ports sparking of an entire alliance against your faction followed by 12 full stacks on a Crusade/Jihad is a bit random but not unreasonable.

The only part I get tired of is the stack spam. Fighting 4-5 battles every turn can make a campaign take forever, especially if you have to use every single tactic you can to win which makes the battle timer almost run down in every battle. In 1 hour I can do maybe 2 turns pretty often with all the battles. That means this week playing Kieven Rus after 6 days of playing 2 hours a day I'm only on turn 36.

[worldsdead]

playing campaign on medium is only way to go because after that ai is just given more resources which = higher aggression. I leave battles on vh though, so it's fun to play them. not fun when ai army's route instantly. i also run into dilema of sacking cities, i like having high dread general's (just seems bad ass) but then everyone hates you even if they're different religion, that sucks. sacking should be allowed with out negative.

[Tears of Destiny]

Hmm, on VH/VH I really only ally with one person usually, occasionally two if they have synergy. With my late era Roman Game I married into the Hungarians (Gave my princess away) and since then have given them gifts every turn and that is it. Seems to work well, having that massive juggernaut to my north helps secure my borders quite well since they never have to choose between me or some other idiot, since they are my only ally. They have yet to break.

Spamming alliances usually ends in failure. Pick one guy you do not want to deal with that is in a good position for X reason, and work from there.

[Clackdor]

I have the same complaint when playing 6.2 RC4. I was playing Poland and was very good allies with the Pope, Hungary, and Denmark; perfect relations. I had Novogorad backstab me, but our relations were not very good. Took out Lithuania, Kievan Rus. Novogorad took out Cuman Khanate and we were going at each other. Then I got backstabbed by Denmark and Hungary at the same time, from Perfect relations. My own thread searching indicated that this was common in gracul's CAI. I am trying one more campaign as Genoa (have only had Sicily backstab me so far.) My next campaign will be with SavageAI (which is included in RC/RR. I'm just not interested in the recruiting features of RC/RR so I'm going to install the SavageAI separately.

[Klironomos ton Romaion]

I tend to have the opposite problem on VH SS 6.1...my alliances don't break, I turtle, and get bored really fast.

[Neptune7]

I tend to have the opposite problem on VH SS 6.1...my alliances don't break, I turtle, and get bored really fast.

Why don't you attack your ally? When you do, the alliance will be broken, and your boredom will be cured..You can thank me later. ....

[Nosocked]

Normally I play vh/vh as northern catholic nations such as England or Denmark because of their lack of border disputes. I never really play lower than this because normally it seemed easy, having taken a lot of the map with no problems, but with Turkey, its just a gang bang fest in every single orifice.

I was hoping to keep playing, so the crusades would lead the catholic nations, that are all pretty much neutral to me due to generous diplomacy to let them attack Egypt so I can be free to defend, but they have been calling crusades on the holy roman empire over and over. They only have a few cities, and they still won't die off.

I'm playing the latest version of SS right now, and I might actually keep playing in this. I've been playing since medival came out and this has to be the most challenging thing ever.

[Mega Tortas de Bodemloze]

Unless I'm totally lost in the sauce here, retaining allies on the harder settings is a pretty difficult chore. I play at M/M {SS6.2} and have kept some very surprising allies from start till end. Example: France playing as Britain and visa vera. Surprisingly the Hungarians playing as the Byzantines. Hungary went on to make Italy a waste land including kicking the Papacy to the curb. last time I checked the campaign, my dear friends were preparing to make western Europe eat Hungarian goulash for dinner every night.

Beyond garrison troops they had none on the western side of my borders...

If folks choose to play VH/VH it might just be kinda hard. You'all got my respect Not in a million years would I try VH.

[Wismer]

Playing as byzzies on very hard / hard. I've found that the stickied strategy guide is an excellent advisor in your situation. I keep a few important alliances but mostly give tributes to non ally neighbors in order to maintain relationships at at least good to at best perfect. In the long run its cheaper to give tributes because the trade profits more than make up for it. Plus peace is cheaper anyway. Soldiers don't work at the docks so to speak.

[Kazuhiro]

AFAIK, when you have a large empire the AI will become more aggressive to challenge the player, so that could be the reason why your allies backstabbed you.

[Saint_of_Battle]

Guys no offense but i have seen many threads like these...

Why are you ing about it? They AI will betray you eventually, It just will.. Retreat,regroup and KILL 'EM ALL!

[Mega Tortas de Bodemloze]

Why are you ing about it?

Cuz we're not as good a player as you, and besides we like to whine....