Beating Phalanxes?

[Manoflooks]

Is it just me, or are the phalanx factions in EB insane?

In my Romani campaign(polybian reforms), I'm having serious confrontations with the Ptolemies. However, they are tearing me apart. Attacking from the front is pure suicide for whatever unit does it, and even when flanking one unit with three units I always take huge amounts of casualties. I only win a battle with them when I outnumber them about two to one-and still lose(before healing) over half my men.

I'm only on medium battle difficulty, and while all the other factions-qarthadistim, gauls, lusotann-have offered no unexpected challenge, these phalanxes are invincible, it seems.

[blacksmithn]

Playing as Carthage, I've experienced the same difficulty with the hated Ptolemies. Flanking them on both sides seems to have little noticeable effect and even hitting them from all FOUR sides often is a tough (and at times losing) fight. Meanwhile, they seem to have no problem whittling right through my own phalanxes (phalanxi?). Who were these guys, Egyptian supermen?

[Stigmata]

yes, the unstoppable egyptian phalanx... because of that, i chase the damn bastards until india (in my romani campaing)

[TITANAS84]

if egypt win seleucid you have problem.if seleucid win remain big you have problem too.try make alliances with saba pahlava or wait the marian reforms.lower levels phalanx are unstopable too.i discover a trick with phalanx fight,choose a swordman and choose the area behind the phalanx.the swordsmen reach them(with loses)and not stuck in pikes,if you have reserves troops because others enemy troops are untrained(haploi hoplites or skirmishers) ,flank them.javelins and others missiles attack are useless for me because 120 men of pike phalanx can win a 160 principes behind them.

[Mirionis9]

It is true that the phalanxes are overpowered in EB. There is always a useful solution: You can lower their statistics refering to their capability of using the sword. You can do so by changing the statistics in the descr.units.text file or something like this.
The phalangites weren't trained as well as other units in melee (sword fight). So this will reduce your difficulties, but the phalanx will still be a hard opponent. It was in reality a hard opponent. Getting better units as Roman doesn't mean that they are unstoppable (legio=superman).

[Mediolanicus]

I never had any real problem fighting phalanxes. Use your hastati to pin them down. Wheel around with your skirmishers or auxilia and shower them with javelins from the back. Attack them with those units or your principes (my absolute favourite for doing this are the Rhaetian axemen), make sure the unit is not completely surrounded and do a cavarly charge. they'll break.

Then you can move on to the next phalanx (which will break easier). Your Hastati should be able to hold them that long.

[Xerrop]

Well phalanxes were strong opponents in reality. So they are not overpowered/unstoppable in the game but rather represented realistic and can be beaten like any other enemy. Of course not as easy as lighter armored enemies like Gaul or Lusotani. It is a bit harder, takes some more casualties on your side as well as your patience.

First of all don´t charge phalanxes frontal. I use guard mode and wait until the phalanxes attack me. Roman units like Hastati, Principes or Triarii are better in defending than attacking. As soon as they engage your units and are pinned flank the phalanxes and attack them with skirmishers or with cavalry charges from behind or their right side. On the left side they seem stronger (because of the shields I guess). And it can take some time and charges to finish them though. Thats why I wrote be patient above.

[Stigmata]

yes, they aren't unstoppable, some thracians from behind and its all over

[Irenaeus]

As suggested above, just pin them with something fairly basic that can hold the line, such as Hastati, and then send some troops flanking to the phalanx rear. Hit the phalanx from behind with javelins, and then send some troops with armor-piercing weapons. Phalanx strength relies on them having both big sarissas at the front to stop frontal attacks, and heavy armor in case troops get past the spears. "Normal" tactics won't work since their strengths come not from shields but from full armor.

[Boriak]

Nothing like a swarm of slingers to put those phalanxes in place. Or use flaming arrows on them while they fight someone. Flaming arrows cause units to rout faster, I think.

[A_Dane]

nothing like a good cavalry charge. In my hayasdan campaign, even the ptollies elite phalanx dies when they're hit by 100 charging horses.. This is probably a bigger problem for romans, than for Carthage, as the latter has some decent cavalry to choose from, and elite pikes to hold their elite pikes in place

[Mediolanicus]

nothing like a good cavalry charge. In my hayasdan campaign, even the ptollies elite phalanx dies when they're hit by 100 charging horses.. This is probably a bigger problem for romans, than for Carthage, as the latter has some decent cavalry to choose from, and elite pikes to hold their elite pikes in place

Yeah but that are catatanks... They are made to disrupt and beat phalanxes. (Normal) Western cavalry doesn't have that much punch, so they need some other units to soften them up a bit.

[A_Dane]

oh, i've done it with mercenary greek & gallic cavalry did the job, albeit with some losses. Thessalians (which seems to be quite plentiful if you hrie mercs), do a great job too. And well for carthage, i'd think sacred band & Iberian heavy cav are able to do the trick too?

Mind you i'm playing normal battle difficulty.
the problem is the romans, but then again, by the time you get to fight the yellow death you should have control of greece & thereby be able to hire thessalians in larger numbers?

[alextheseleucid]

if you're going to pin them from the front and then flank them, i suggest putting the pinning unit on guard mode to minimize casualties.

[torongill]

Sometimes it depends on whether there are a lot of the bastards. If they have a long line of them, I usually do a Leuktra: Strong left flank with the most heavy troops I have and center and right refused(right echelon). Pin the rightmost phalanx unit from the front, pepper them with javelins from their right and rear, then charge them with some really lethal troops(I usually use elite thracians or thracian peltastas, or celtic fanatics). Once the rightmost syntagma is dogfood, do the same with the one next to it. Rinse and repeat.
P.S. Accept that you will suffer casualties. Breaking an enemy phalanx is the most difficult task your troops will have to do.

[Faramir D'Andunie]

Chariots and elephants can prove to be ideal units to flank or rear attack em, even if the second is a tad too expensive.

[Lordinquisitor]

I don`t know.. Elephants and chariots? Chariots generally suck in melee and are best used to simply move through the enemy ranks.. But if the phalanx just even looks at the chariots they will die like flies. Meh. I think that chariots are best used to disorder the ranks of non phalanx units.

[Faramir D'Andunie]

Chariots affect enemy morale and can disrupt the enemy formation. Chariots attacking a phalanx are hopeless, but on an already pinned phalanx it is a completely different matter.
Of course chariots require a lot of micro management and making sure they are always on the move.

[Manoflooks]

Well, I only control Italy, Africa west of cyrene, and Spain, and the war is taking place in Africa. Some time(in real life, not in game) ago, I sent three full stacks to attack them, but I only managed to take back Garama and Lepti, and I need multiple full stacks to defend against even the occasion ptolemy stack that attacks. Another 40 years until the marians are even possible...sigh.

[Ichon]

Best advice so far is take advantage of Phalanx slow speed. Of course to really do that well requires some intense micro if it is a full stack battle.

Other thing you can do is wait for siege and then rapid counter-attack... or raid from the seas. Most of the best cities are near the coast and while Phalanx excel on city defense they aren't as successful on assaults.