Consider limited Elite Units AOR?

[Revan The Great]

I've been playing my Roman campaign and it seems to me that some factions, particularly Diadochi, seem to have an extreme over-representation of Royal Guardsmen units in their armies. I've compiled screenshots that show every large concentration or stack of Egyptian Troops I've been able to find just scrolling around, and I've found that probably half of the Ptolemaic Army could be considered 'Royal' grade.

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The last screenshot is the only example I could find of a 'reasonable' Egyptian army of any size. I also always think it's interesting when you see an odd unit, like Cretan Hoplites out fighting in Mesopotamia since Egypt hasn't owned Crete for over fifty years.

Keep in mind also that there are many Basilikoi Peltasti hanging out as garrisons of cities too. Ultimately I think this is because late-game, once a city is fully upgraded in barrackses there is a dual problem of a computer losing access to some lower-tier units (Like Thureophoroi) while also being able to recruit their higher tier units all over the place. I think it might be a good idea to limit the recruitment of some units to only certain cities - like Basilikoi Peltasti, Agema, and Agema Pikemen to Alexandria, Thebes, Antioch, Seleucia, and Pergamon for all of the Eastern 'Diadochi'. It seems to me that there should only be half a dozen units of Basilikoi Peltasti and Basilikoi Agema total, even in a large-Egypt game like this, and maybe a dozen Royal Pikemen in total.

Edit: This would extend to other factions as well, like Sacred Band only in Carthage and a few other select places, the same with Armenian Nakharars etc.

[chaplain118]

Wouldn't that make it too easy for the players if most of the units the AI puts out are levies or medium grade ones?

[Revan The Great]

Theoretically it would also limit the player too.

And irregardless of making it easier or harder for the player, I personally don't like seeing armies of half Basilikoi Peltasti storming the frontier, it's just unrealistic and turns me off. I'm sure other people would agree, so that's why I posted this to see just how many people would agree and if the suggested changes are reasonable, possible, and plausible.

[chaplain118]

It might also have the problem of linearizing campaigns. If a player knows that only Carthage is able to pump out these elite Punic units, then they go for a surgical strike against Carthage every time they play to avoid having to battle elite troops and then just mop up the levies in the outlying empire. Historical? Yes. Fun? Not as much.

At least in my experience.

[Revan The Great]

Players can also make 18 legionary cohorts to a legion instead of 10, or use add_money 40000, or go into the edu and add 100 armor to all of their favorite units. Does that mean that we increase all legionary cohorts recruitment costs and upkeep to 10,000 each, do we try and mess with exe to try and remove console commands or make the edu all read only?

No.

If a player wants to cheat or be cheap then that's their business. We've already made it so large, well balanced and powerful AI armies spawn when they lose an important city. We should focus on making the game more playable for the majority of people who wouldn't homing-missile Carthage to take it out instead of those who live to 'game' the system. Besides, why not make it so Sacred Band can be recruited in Hadrumetum and other important cities like Carthago Nova? I just have a problem with them being recruitable in, say, Genoa, or any old place.

[tone]

Maybe for the AI they should be limited to Fortified Cities too? That could improve the balance. Or else I make all elites 1 or 2 turn recruitment.....or increase the cost further.

[Revan The Great]

I could see perhaps 1 turn recruitment, though not 2 turn. That goes against the 'flow' of RS2...

I'd be hesitant to say that the AI is allowed to build elites at fortified cities because the problem would be substantially the same in that late game the AI will have built to required buildings (whatever and however many that happens to be) and can produce Royal Guard-type soldiers everywhere and spam them across the map. And ultimately I think the best solution would be limiting the AOR of higher tiered units, though perhaps it could be married to the 1 turn recruitment idea. If limiting the AOR of literally dozens of units is a pain, or not feasible at this time then I completely understand, we could probably get by with just the 1 turn recruitment thing for now.

[dvk901]

My question regarding this would be is it ALL factions doing this, or only a few? Egypt, for example, raises a red flag in my mind, because they were boosted considerably in terms of their base bonus. So has this allowed them to recruit more elite units than before, or is it just the 'norm' that a faction will recruit them if it can?

If it is the norm, I would say they should cost more. This is not only a lot easier to do, but in the long run I think it would have a 'softer' effect on the problem than totally limiting where these units can be recruited. And some of them are already limited...like the Sacred Band.

[Revan The Great]

I've personally noticed every faction with Hypaspists/Basilikoi Peltasti doing it, i.e. Macedon, Pergamon, and Egypt. They're probably really the only ones who can mass produce elite units pretty easy just because they aren't constrained like Carthage and the fact of the matter being that, say, Armenia and Parthia and Dacia don't have elite heavy infantry quite on the order of the Diadochi, or at least they don't seem as common.

It seems like vs. Macedon and Pergamon there's always at least a handful of Royal Guardsmen units in each army, and it's really only the Ptolemies who managed to field armies with over 50% royal guard. But then again, the Ptolemies are also the only ones I've really observed in late-late game out of those three.