pikes switching

[Geuvesa]

So I am not sure if it just my game or not but the Loke-Gamp Rim do not switch to sword and shield when an enemy is close or on the flanks of the pike block. I don't know if this has been addressed or not but I would love to see them act like pikemen of vanilla medieval 2 and rome where they draw sword and shield when enemies get too close, or when you want to charge an enemy they will switch to these close melee weapons and charge instead of the steady push of pike in spear wall.

[Lordinquisitor]

The problem is that vanilla pikemen suck, because they would draw their swords too fast and would break the formation too fast. That`s why the team removed their secondary weapon.

(Maybe try to click ALT while ordering them to attack. I think then they might use their swords, but i`m not sure..)

[AnthoniusII]

The problem is that vanilla pikemen suck, because they would draw their swords too fast and would break the formation too fast. That`s why the team removed their secondary weapon.

(Maybe try to click ALT while ordering them to attack. I think then they might use their swords, but i`m not sure..)

I that case the player has to activate not only the pike abillity button but also the stand ground one. When the 1st ranks will switch to swords the player HAS to deactivate/activate again the stand ground button to force them to re use their pikes.
Its quite dificult but it finall result worths the trouble!

[Louis Lux]

The switch to sword greatly reduces their efficiency, in this case gameplay largely outweighs looks. And personally I think they would look a bit weird with swords.

[el Cid]

The switch to sword greatly reduces their efficiency, in this case gameplay largely outweighs looks. And personally I think they would look a bit weird with swords.

In the preview it looks like this, they switch to swords and shields in secondary.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I am just wondering whether they will then just be swordsmen or still have the ridiculously low attack stat of pikemen?

[Geuvesa]

I love the look of the Loke-Gamp, and I love that they are a pike unit first but in the description I believe it says they are excellent swordsmen, and seeing as to how they are carrying swords and shields it would make sense to me if they used them as secondary weapons. would their be a way to have a trigger similar to the broken crescent's for the emperors guard (byzantium)? they use their spears against cavalry and during the charge but once fighting infantry they draw swords and they are very potent, maybe when out of spear wall formation the trigger can be copied and when in spear wall they remain pure pikemen like how they are now? I know gameplay outweights looks but with swords being more dangerous in infantry on infantry would it not make them more efficiant?

[Achilla]

No kind of sane pikeman would drop his pike to draw his sword (maybe except a hypothetical skirmish scenario, but that didn't really happen). The effectiveness of Pikemen units was all about formation, without formation they are as good as dead, and that's the result of drawing swords and entering chaotic melee.

The BC unit you mentioned is simply half-assed in melee with spear, and it doesn't switch to sword intelligently but semi-randomly. I've seen them draw swords versus cavalry in prolonged melee fights too, and if you ask me it doesn't serve them that well. They'd be better off with single weapon choice, without this random switch.

[Geuvesa]

Name a sane pikeman that tries to fight a man 2 feet infront of him with a 10 foot long polearm while in formation (Loke-Gamp use a pike/halberd mix) not to mention they have a sword and shield which they are expert swordsmen.

[Seleukos_I.]

Didn't you notice that pike units in Medieval II suck?
The reason is that they draw theit swords whenever they are in close combat which makes them totally useless. I think every mod I've seen so far has removed their second weapon.

[Geuvesa]

Didn't you notice that pike units in Medieval II suck?
The reason is that they draw theit swords whenever they are in close combat which makes them totally useless. I think every mod I've seen so far has removed their second weapon.

I love the pike units in vanilla M2TW I would use them (not the militia pikemen mind you but Tercio) to form a main battle line and they excelled at not only pinning enemies but in pushing them back as well. They are not as good as the hoplites of RTW but they do their job how I used them. That said I know that they are not as good as they could be.

[Achilla]

Name a sane pikeman that tries to fight a man 2 feet infront of him with a 10 foot long polearm while in formation (Loke-Gamp use a pike/halberd mix) not to mention they have a sword and shield which they are expert swordsmen.

A sane pikeman wouldn't allow that to happen in the first place ... and if it did happen, there is a bunch of pikes behind the guy, ready to sever the approaching enemy, that's why you need at least 3 rows to hold the melee line from the front. It would make more sense to simply add a bunch of 'banner sergeants' using melee weapon + shield to the pikemen unit, as that's the best thing the game allows, to make them more resistant. Everyone else should hold their pikes. Plus, it's just a game, so it's simplified anyway. You were given a gameplay reason why they suck if they switch to secondary weapon and I don't really see what's there left to discuss.

[Erunion Telcontar]

I played for a long time with Vanilla Med II before switching to Stainless Steel/Third Age. Pikes, while not useless persay, were not very useful either without a ridiculous amount of micromanaging (which I admit I did. I loved pikes as a matter of principle, I just hated their behaviour). This was because of the whole switch-to-sword thing. If the front row of pikes switched to swords when their enemy too close, that would have been okay. Good even, it would have worked well and looked cool. Alas, the entire battalion had to switch to swords. This was not good at all, as it turned your useful and effective pikeman into a cheap one handed swordsman who could be easily overwhelmed. With pikes the way they are now in SS/TATW, they are actually really, really good! I love pikes without the sword-switching. It makes them incredibly useful in almost any situation. You can even use pikes in an offensive role to push back and pin their enemies. It's beautiful.

[Point Blank]

The problem was, that the original M2TW pikemen had no defensive anims scripted, so as soon as anyone attacked them, even another pikeman (!), they had to switch to swords to run a defensive anim. How silly is that?

Rhunnic 'pikemen' are really better off depicted by giving them halberds in spearwall IMHO, with same anim set as voulge etc.

[KngGilgamesh]

did the CA not play test them?

[Lordinquisitor]

Probably not extensive enough.

Though, that`s half so bad if you can actually mod the files.

[KngGilgamesh]

yeah removing the swords isn't hard.

[Æsir]

IMHO in vanilla M2:TW pikes sucks hardly - I never used them in my campaigns, as I didn't use two-handed "assault" troops (who sucks even greater).

[KngGilgamesh]

yeah thats why Scotland isn't so great in Vanilla.

[SinerAthin]

Pikemen are insane

They counter swordsmen.

They counter cavalry.

What more is there to ask from? Make a battleline with those maniacs and they'll scuff through any battle line.
Uruks with their long spears are just insane the way they push the enemy back with zero casualties(almost).


Only thing I did notice was that when the enemy charged my pikemen, my pikemen suffered some casualties but for the next of the fight, only the enemy did.
Weren't one of the roles of pikes to turn a charge against the enemy as they used the enemy's own charge to impale them on their spears, meaning a charge against the enemy was more likely to kill your own swordsmen rather than the pikemen?

[Erunion Telcontar]

Pikes are insane. They have only one (and a half) weakness(es). There greatest weakness, the arrow. Pikes are brutalized by any ranged weapon. Really brutalized. There half weakness is their flanks, as a good charge of infantry or cav into their flank will do hefty damage before the pikes properly reposition themselves.
There is a reason that Pikes/halberds dominated combat in the 16th/17th centuries.