View Poll Results: What do you think?

Voters
30. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yea he's right, climate change doesnt exist/matter

    6 20.00%
  • No, climate change does exist/matter

    18 60.00%
  • Im unsure

    3 10.00%
  • who cares?

    3 10.00%
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 26

Thread: Prominent Princeton Scientist Dr. Happer Testifies to Congress: 'Warming and increased CO2 will be good for mankind'

Hybrid View

Previous Post Previous Post   Next Post Next Post
  1. #1

    Default Prominent Princeton Scientist Dr. Happer Testifies to Congress: 'Warming and increased CO2 will be good for mankind'

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Dr. Will Happer's Testimony Before the House Select Committee on Energy Independence and Global Warming - May 20, 2010

    My name is William Happer, and I am the Cyrus Fogg Bracket Professor of Physics at Princeton University. I have spent my professional life studying the interactions of visible and infrared radiation with gases – one of the main physical phenomena behind the greenhouse effect. I have published over 200 papers in peer reviewed scientific journals. I am a member of a number of professional organizations, including the American Physical Society and the National Academy of Sciences. I have done extensive consulting work for the US Government and Industry. I also served as the Director of Energy Research at the Department of Energy (DOE) from 1990 to 1993, where I supervised all of DOE's work on climate change.

    Key Excerpts: The CO2 absorption band is nearly “saturated” at current CO2 levels. Adding more CO2 is like putting an additional ski hat on your head when you already have a nice warm one below it, but you are only wearing a windbreaker. The extra hat makes you a little bit warmer but to really get warm, you need to add a jacket. The IPCC thinks that this jacket is water vapor and clouds. [...]

    The climate-change establishment has tried to eliminate any who dare question the science establishment climate scientists and by like-thinking policy-makers – you are either with us or you are a traitor.

    Orwellian: I keep hearing about the “pollutant CO2,” or about “poisoning the atmosphere” with CO2, or about minimizing our “carbon footprint.” This brings to mind a comment by George Orwell: “But if thought corrupts language, language can also corrupt thought.” CO2 is not a pollutant and it is not a poison and we should not corrupt the English language by depriving “pollutant” and “poison” of their original meaning. Our exhaled breath contains about 4% CO2. That is 40,000 parts per million, or about 100 times the current atmospheric concentration. CO2 is absolutely essential for life on earth. Commercial greenhouse operators often use CO2 as a fertilizer to improve the health and growth rate of their plants. Plants, and our own primate ancestors evolved when the levels of atmospheric CO2 were at least 1000 ppm, a level that we will probably not reach by burning fossil fuels, and far above our current level of about 380 ppm. We try to keep CO2 levels in our US Navy submarines no higher than 8,000 parts per million, about 20 time current atmospheric levels. Few adverse effects are observed at even higher levels. [...]

    That we are (or were) living at the best of all CO2 concentrations seems to be an article of faith for the climate-change establishment. Enormous effort and imagination have gone into showing that increasing concentrations of CO2 will be catastrophic: cities will be flooded by sea-level rises that are ten or more times bigger than even IPCC predicts, there will be mass extinctions of species, billions of people will die, tipping points will render the planet a desert. Any flimsy claim of harm from global warming brings instant fame and many rewards.

    Sea Level: The sea level is indeed rising, just as it has for the past 20,000 years since the end of the last ice age. Fairly accurate measurements of sea level have been available since about 1800. These measurements show no sign of any acceleration. The rising sea level can be a serious local problem for heavily-populated, low-lying areas like New Orleans, where land subsidence compounds the problem. But to think that limiting CO2 emissions will stop sea level rise is a dangerous illusion. It is also possible that the warming seas around Antarctica will cause more snowfall over the continent and will counteract the sea-level rise.

    Hockey Stick: I was very surprised when I first saw the celebrated “hockey stick curve,” in the Third Assessment Report of the IPCC. Both the little ice age and the medieval warm period were gone, and the newly revised temperature of the world since the year 1000 had suddenly become absolutely flat until the last hundred years when it shot up like the blade on a hockey stick. This was far from an obscure detail, and the hockey stick was trumpeted around the world as evidence that the end was near. We now know that the hockey stick has nothing to do with reality but was the result of incorrect handling of proxy temperature records and incorrect statistical analysis. There really was a little ice age and there really was a medieval warm period that was as warm or warmer than today. I bring up the hockey stick as a particularly clear example that the IPCC summaries for policy makers are not dispassionate statements of the facts of climate change.
    Conclusion: I regret that the climate-change issue has become confused with serious problems like secure energy supplies, protecting our environment, and figuring out where future generations will get energy supplies after we have burned all the fossil fuel we can find. We should not confuse these laudable goals with hysterics about carbon footprints. For example, when weighing pluses and minuses of the continued or increased use of coal, the negative issue should not be increased atmospheric CO2, which is probably good for mankind. We should focus on real issues like damage to the land and waterways by strip mining, inadequate remediation, hazards to miners, the release of real pollutants and poisons like mercury, other heavy metals, organic carcinogens, etc.

    Life is about making decisions and decisions are about trade-offs. The Congress can choose to promote investment in technology that addresses real problems and scientific research that will let us cope with real problems more efficiently.

    Or they can act on unreasonable fears and suppress energy use, economic growth and the benefits that come from the creation of national wealth.


    Source
    full testimony

    What do you think? He certainly has the credentials and seems to know what he's talking about
    Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!"

  2. #2
    alhoon's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Chania, Greece
    Posts
    24,223

    Default Re: Prominent Princeton Scientist Dr. Happer Testifies to Congress: 'Warming and increased CO2 will be good for mankind'

    That he does know what he talks about, doesn't mean he isn't willing to look at the facts with a certain perspective, especially if his institution/university/whatever is lined with money from polluting companies for research.
    alhoon is not a member of the infamous Hoons: a (fictional) nazi-sympathizer KKK clan. Of course, no Hoon would openly admit affiliation to the uninitiated.
    "Angry Uncle Gordon" describes me well.
    _______________________________________________________
    Beta-tester for Darthmod Empire, the default modification for Empire Total War that does not ask for your money behind patreon.
    Developer of Causa Belli submod for Darthmod, headed by Hammeredalways and a ton of other people.
    Developer of LtC: Random maps submod for Lands to Conquer (that brings a multitude of random maps and other features).

  3. #3
    Squiggle's Avatar Primicerius
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Canada, Ontario
    Posts
    3,913

    Default Re: Prominent Princeton Scientist Dr. Happer Testifies to Congress: 'Warming and increased CO2 will be good for mankind'

    Why do you automatically assume hes bought out?
    Man will never be free until the last King is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.
    ― Denis Diderot
    ~
    As for politics, I'm an Anarchist. I hate governments and rules and fetters. Can't stand caged animals. People must be free.
    ― Charlie Chaplin

  4. #4

    Default Re: Prominent Princeton Scientist Dr. Happer Testifies to Congress: 'Warming and increased CO2 will be good for mankind'

    There is no human caused climate change.
    There is so much info out there, "climate gate" just to offer a search term everyone can type into google...
    I cannot understand why people still stick with prooven liar´s bollony about human caused climate change when there is that much info out by now.

    CO2 is a way to get a world wide tax, and to further make the globalist agenda look necessary to the public and squeeze some more money out of us, as it´s the sign of every decaying regime: It loots the public before going down.

    There is a climate change, as there was a climate change the last 5 billion years aswell- but not caused by the humans but by the sun(´s activity).

    I am all for clean energy, but for other and better reasons than the climate scam...
    I do the wrong, and first begin to brawl.
    The secret mischiefs that I set abroach

    I lay unto the grievous charge of others.


    And thus I clothe my naked villainy

    With odd old ends, stol'n out of holy writ;

    And seem a saint, when most I play the devil."

    Shakespeare´s "Richard III"

  5. #5
    Nouvelle Vague's Avatar Ducenarius
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    903

    Default Re: Prominent Princeton Scientist Dr. Happer Testifies to Congress: 'Warming and increased CO2 will be good for mankind'

    He already said something similar in 2009. Though what he points out is that CO2 is beneficial to plant life, no doubt. But what happens if we're cutting down more plant life and pumping out more CO2? The plants we have left don't take in extra CO2 to cater for both the loss of tress and the increase in Human related CO2 emissions. The rise in CO2 wouldn't be a problem if we have the necessary plant life to support the rise, eg grow more. Yet we're doing the opposite and expecting the same result...

    He also mentions sea levels rising constantly, yet doesn't comment on current acceleration of this trend, nor in the CO2 case.

    That and this field isn't even his specialty, yet he feels the need to sit on committees and give his own view on it, strange.

    Formerly Tiberias

  6. #6
    Viking Prince's Avatar Horrible(ly cute)
    Patrician Moderator Emeritus

    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Colorado, USA
    Posts
    18,577

    Default Re: Prominent Princeton Scientist Dr. Happer Testifies to Congress: 'Warming and increased CO2 will be good for mankind'

    Global warming is both politics and science. However, when a scientist gives testimony -- the testimony is a question of Science. I am moving this from the Mudpit.

    VP
    Grandson of Silver Guard, son of Maverick, and father to Mr MM|Rebel6666|Beer Money |bastard stepfather to Ferrets54
    The Scriptorium is looking for great articles. Don't be bashful, we can help with the formatting and punctuation. I am only a pm away to you becoming a published author within the best archive of articles around.
    Post a challenge and start a debate
    Garb's Fight Club - the Challenge thread






    .


    Quote Originally Posted by Simon Cashmere View Post
    Weighing into threads with the steel capped boots on just because you disagree with my viewpoints, is just embarrassing.

















    Quote Originally Posted by Hagar_the_Horrible
    As you journey through life take a minute every now and then to give a thought for the other fellow. He could be plotting something.


  7. #7
    Sidmen's Avatar Mangod of Earth
    Moderator Emeritus

    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    15,874

    Default Re: Prominent Princeton Scientist Dr. Happer Testifies to Congress: 'Warming and increased CO2 will be good for mankind'

    That and this field isn't even his specialty, yet he feels the need to sit on committees and give his own view on it, strange.
    I have spent my professional life studying the interactions of visible and infrared radiation with gases – one of the main physical phenomena behind the greenhouse effect.
    Looks to me that his specialty has a LOT to do with the climate debate; what with CO2 in the atmosphere being the headline of the issue.

    The rise in CO2 wouldn't be a problem if we have the necessary plant life to support the rise, eg grow more. Yet we're doing the opposite and expecting the same result...
    Eventually, we will need to start growing more to feed our growing population. Corn, as an example, absorbs Co2 faster than a tree inhabiting the same spot.
    "For the humble doily is indeed the gateway to ULTIMATE COSMIC POWER!"

    ~Sidmen, Member of the House of Wilpuri, Patronized by pannonian

  8. #8
    Nouvelle Vague's Avatar Ducenarius
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    903

    Default Re: Prominent Princeton Scientist Dr. Happer Testifies to Congress: 'Warming and increased CO2 will be good for mankind'

    Quote Originally Posted by Sidmen View Post
    Looks to me that his specialty has a LOT to do with the climate debate; what with CO2 in the atmosphere being the headline of the issue.
    I'd expect him to have specialised in something like Paleoclimatology rather than Optics or Physics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sidmen View Post
    Eventually, we will need to start growing more to feed our growing population. Corn, as an example, absorbs Co2 faster than a tree inhabiting the same spot.
    Or control birth rates because the planet cannot sustain the current projected influxes of increased population. Especially in terms of what we're doing to the environment at the same time.

    Edit: Commenting on moderation in post is off-topic.
    Last edited by Senno; May 26, 2010 at 11:27 PM. Reason: Commenting on moderation in thread is inherently off-topic.

    Formerly Tiberias

  9. #9

    Default Re: Prominent Princeton Scientist Dr. Happer Testifies to Congress: 'Warming and increased CO2 will be good for mankind'

    Quote Originally Posted by Nouvelle Vague View Post
    I haven't been following the ignorant political debate raged (mainly) in America. The scientific one is far more important and reverent and one sided given the vast consensus. You mistakenly think this is a political debate or attempt to frame it as such.
    You really haven't been following the debate then.

    Scientific or political.

    And yes I did read the house of commons report, which spent one day on it, and had the only scientist in the MP lot writing a dissenting opinion.

    I guess though that politics in science doesn't count unless that politics in science supports what I think the science is right

    BTW never use consensus if you want to be taken seriously as a scientist, ever, and I'll add its not a political debate only for 'America'.

    Germans are losing their fear of climate change, according to a survey, with just 42 percent worried about global warming.


    It seems the long and chilly winter has taken its toll on climate change sensibilities despite the fact that weather has nothing to do with climate.

    The latest figure is a clear drop from the 62 percent of Germans who said they were scared of such changes just in autumn 2006.

    The new survey, carried out by polling company Infratest for Der Spiegel magazine, showed a quarter of those questioned thought Germany would profit from climate change rather than be badly affected by it.

    Many people have little faith in the information and prognosis of climate researchers with a third questioned in the survey not giving them much credence. This is thought to be largely due to mistakes and exaggerations recently discovered in a report of the intergovernmental panel on climate change, the IPCC.
    http://www.thelocal.de/sci-tech/20100327-26163.html

    Sorry to puncture your bubble, but I doubt it will pop.
    Last edited by Phier; May 25, 2010 at 10:30 PM.
    "When I die, I want to die peacefully in my sleep, like Fidel Castro, not screaming in terror, like his victims."

    My shameful truth.

  10. #10
    Nouvelle Vague's Avatar Ducenarius
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    903

    Default Re: Prominent Princeton Scientist Dr. Happer Testifies to Congress: 'Warming and increased CO2 will be good for mankind'

    Quote Originally Posted by Phier View Post
    You really haven't been following the debate then.

    Scientific or political.

    And yes I did read the house of commons report, which spent one day on it, and had the only scientist in the MP lot writing a dissenting opinion.

    I guess though that politics in science doesn't count unless that politics in science supports what I think the science is right
    And the Independent Scientific Commission also came to the same conclusion. But wait they must have a political leaning too, as do all scientists who have ever claimed that Climate Change is an actuality. It's all one big left wing conspiracy isn't it? Your sounding as credible as Amagi

    Quote Originally Posted by Phier View Post
    BTW never use consensus if you want to be taken seriously as a scientist, ever, and I'll add its not a political debate only for 'America'.

    http://www.thelocal.de/sci-tech/20100327-26163.html

    Sorry to puncture your bubble, but I doubt it will pop.

    I'm not particularly concerned about public opinion on the issue. By the very fact that people's opinions are being swayed on this debate because they've gone through a cold winter is ludicrous. I'm more interested in the opinions of actual scientists than politicans who are so easily swayed by public opinion.



    edit. I'm sorry but after re reading your statement and highlighted article I have to wonder if you're actually being serious or not.

    Because you do realise that Global temperatures actually rose in the period that is indicated in that German article you provided don't you? Because Europe and America may have gone through a cold patch in their weather period, but as a whole Global temperatures rose. Tempresures rose by 0.72 Degrees Celsius or roughly 1.5 degrees Fahrenheit to you yanks.

    So as you can see on the map below, temperatures in Europe and parts of north America went down, but thats not the whole story. Rising temperatures in Canada, Greenland and the Middle East meant that this was the warmest January for 11 years. The trend continues into March, becoming the warmest on record. Even CNN did a feature about this trend and used similar graphs and maps as these to indicate the trend.

    This is the very reason why the term Climate Change is used. For the reason that rising world temperatures create sporadic changes to the environment.



    Just because temperatures cool at your place doesn't necessarily mean its the norm for the entire world... Please don't tell me you'll be coming out every Winter and claiming Global Warming is a myth just because you can't find a jacket.

    You're not doing yourself too much justice with these comments.
    Last edited by Senno; May 26, 2010 at 11:30 PM. Reason: Off-topic commentary removed.

    Formerly Tiberias

  11. #11

    Default Re: Prominent Princeton Scientist Dr. Happer Testifies to Congress: 'Warming and increased CO2 will be good for mankind'

    When someone tries to get his point across by trying to smear the debate partner with terms like "conspiracy", he already lost.

    Climategate finished your climate religion off, live with it.
    I do the wrong, and first begin to brawl.
    The secret mischiefs that I set abroach

    I lay unto the grievous charge of others.


    And thus I clothe my naked villainy

    With odd old ends, stol'n out of holy writ;

    And seem a saint, when most I play the devil."

    Shakespeare´s "Richard III"

  12. #12

    Default Re: Prominent Princeton Scientist Dr. Happer Testifies to Congress: 'Warming and increased CO2 will be good for mankind'

    Certainly in the historical record, times of high concentration of CO2 (which correlates to times of high temperatures) were periods of abundance. In general the natural world will not be greatly effected by higher average temperatures, populations may have to shift their ranges, but winters will be milder and more land will be inhabitable in the north.

    The big question for humans is what will ocean levels look like? Unlike other animals who can simply pick up and move themselves a few miles, we have built the majority of our civilization close to oceans and other waterways, and one cannot simply pick up cities and move them. That is the major concern, all the other concerns about storms, droughts etc. are small potatoes as we could easily adapt to them.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Prominent Princeton Scientist Dr. Happer Testifies to Congress: 'Warming and increased CO2 will be good for mankind'

    Lord Monckton wins global warming debate at Oxford Union

    For those who don’t know, the Oxford Union is the top of the food chain for scholarly debate. This is a significant win.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    =>Global Warming Scam=dead




    Last edited by Amagi; May 25, 2010 at 05:50 PM.
    I do the wrong, and first begin to brawl.
    The secret mischiefs that I set abroach

    I lay unto the grievous charge of others.


    And thus I clothe my naked villainy

    With odd old ends, stol'n out of holy writ;

    And seem a saint, when most I play the devil."

    Shakespeare´s "Richard III"

  14. #14
    Nouvelle Vague's Avatar Ducenarius
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    903

    Default Re: Prominent Princeton Scientist Dr. Happer Testifies to Congress: 'Warming and increased CO2 will be good for mankind'

    Lord Monckton? Haha really? This guy came over to my country awhile back and in an interview couldn't give a credible reason that wasn't debunked or question by the interviewee, in which Monckton had no response. He's also known to lie about facts and studies. Media Watch exposes this when he was over here falsely claiming studies to reaffirm is vile dogma. His only claim to fame is he was the once science minister when Conservative Margret Thacher was leader in Britain, so get an idea of where this guy standpoint comes from.


    As for the debate in Oxford there has been as much if not more exposure given to the climate change skeptics than the scinetists themselves. Mr Monckton (because people dispute the fact the he's even a Lord) pray on the fact that scientists the the least media savvy people on earth. Though if you'd actually asked their opinions you'd find the truth behind the rubbish skeptics put out.

    Over eight out of ten American climate scientists believe that human activity contributes to global warming, according to a new survey released by the Statistical Assessment Service (STATS) at George Mason University. The researchers also report that belief in human-induced warming has more than doubled since the last major survey of American climate scientists in 1991. However, the survey finds that scientists are still debating the dynamics and dangers of global warming, and only three percent trust newspaper or television coverage of climate change.
    Major Findings

    Scientists agree that humans cause global warming
    Ninety-seven percent of the climate scientists surveyed believe “global average temperatures have increased” during the past century.

    Eighty-four percent say they personally believe human-induced warming is occurring, and 74% agree that “currently available scientific evidence” substantiates its occurrence. Only 5% believe that that human activity does not contribute to greenhouse warming; the rest are unsure.
    Reference

    Formerly Tiberias

  15. #15

    Default Re: Prominent Princeton Scientist Dr. Happer Testifies to Congress: 'Warming and increased CO2 will be good for mankind'

    Your "reference" is from 2008, WAY before "climategate". You can do better.
    Second try.

    tic toc tic toc...
    I do the wrong, and first begin to brawl.
    The secret mischiefs that I set abroach

    I lay unto the grievous charge of others.


    And thus I clothe my naked villainy

    With odd old ends, stol'n out of holy writ;

    And seem a saint, when most I play the devil."

    Shakespeare´s "Richard III"

  16. #16
    Nouvelle Vague's Avatar Ducenarius
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    903

    Default Re: Prominent Princeton Scientist Dr. Happer Testifies to Congress: 'Warming and increased CO2 will be good for mankind'

    Quote Originally Posted by Amagi View Post
    Your "reference" is from 2008, WAY before "climategate". You can do better.
    Did you even happen to read the report made by House of Commons Science and Technology Select Committee? along with an independent Science Assessment Panel, in regard to the University of East Anglia?

    That said how does this affect the research of independent institutions with no links with the the University, let alone that particular department?

    Formerly Tiberias

  17. #17

    Default Re: Prominent Princeton Scientist Dr. Happer Testifies to Congress: 'Warming and increased CO2 will be good for mankind'

    Quote Originally Posted by Sphere View Post
    Certainly in the historical record, times of high concentration of CO2 (which correlates to times of high temperatures) were periods of abundance. In general the natural world will not be greatly effected by higher average temperatures, populations may have to shift their ranges, but winters will be milder and more land will be inhabitable in the north.

    The big question for humans is what will ocean levels look like? Unlike other animals who can simply pick up and move themselves a few miles, we have built the majority of our civilization close to oceans and other waterways, and one cannot simply pick up cities and move them. That is the major concern, all the other concerns about storms, droughts etc. are small potatoes as we could easily adapt to them.
    I agree that high CO2 levels probably won't have a huge impact on nature, as long as the growth is not to rapid. However the issue we face is the moment is that changes that in the past have taken centuries or longer are now occuring in the space of a human lifetime, the population drift you mention will be harder pushed to keep pace in this case.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Prominent Princeton Scientist Dr. Happer Testifies to Congress: 'Warming and increased CO2 will be good for mankind'

    I don't get it. Even if there is no global warming issue, then why not just be on the safe side and support green technology anyways?

  19. #19

    Default Re: Prominent Princeton Scientist Dr. Happer Testifies to Congress: 'Warming and increased CO2 will be good for mankind'

    Its not about green energy, of course that needs to be supported- but for other reasons than a global carbon tax, controlled by an unelected globalist institution.

    The recent pushs for the NWO are not to be overseen, the many fake pandemics (swineflu, birdflu) in order to get internationalist institutions seem needed and acceptable to the public (World health organization), the staged monetary crises aimed to further advance world financial control by the IMF (International monetary fond), and now this global carbon tax which will shift a lot of souvereign nation state´s control to yet another global institution...

    Faked crises to further the NewWorldOrder.
    I do the wrong, and first begin to brawl.
    The secret mischiefs that I set abroach

    I lay unto the grievous charge of others.


    And thus I clothe my naked villainy

    With odd old ends, stol'n out of holy writ;

    And seem a saint, when most I play the devil."

    Shakespeare´s "Richard III"

  20. #20
    Strelok's Avatar Civitate
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    4,143

    Default Re: Prominent Princeton Scientist Dr. Happer Testifies to Congress: 'Warming and increased CO2 will be good for mankind'

    Whoever claims that global warming and it's result of climate change is "good" is likely bought out.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •