No guild buildings for war?

[Dago Red]

What do you have to do to get these guild buildings other than thieves, theologian, and merchants?

I have been waiting and waiting to have an offer from others while constructing this long line of armorer buildings only to find out that they do nothing! There is not a single unit of mine that comes out with more than 2 chevrons and a mere "bronze" upgrade on their weapons - no armor upgrade at all.

It's 1279 now and there have been no armor advances at all. IS my game just bugged as the Abbasid Caliphate or is there something you must do to make these armories work?

And what of the swordsmith, etc guilds?

[Tintin2]

I also noticed while playing muslim factions I get offers for the Hashashim guild, tho with no effect I think.
In vanilla we would get Hashashim units but I do not see any use of this guild in BC.

I think there are no armor upgrades in BC.
Looking around in the models.db file, I don't see different .meshes for any unit.

Soldiers even today get combat experience after some time of service.

If you want your units to have gold chevs you will have to deploy them and retrain them alot.
Perfect example for ERE is their cataphracts, in the early stage of the campaign you will have two cataphracts with one bronze chevs but by the year 1220 they will be elite if you manage to keep them alive.
By then were 46 years later and I assume they are not in the shape of their life anymore

[wudang_clown]

I found most of guilds useless in BC. Most of them do nothing.

Blacksmith building give only weapon upgrade. That's how creators of BC 2 set it. And that's how it will stay, probably.

So, nothing is wrong with your game, Dago Red. Guilds hadn't been optimally utilized in BC - that's all.

[Dago Red]

Well that's shocking to me and actually, I have not found the same thing to be true.... in fact, my Hashashim's guild and merchants guild have very noticeable effects on the assassins and merchants (respectively) that I hire. Since acquiring my Hashashim buildings all my killers come out well schooled, already deadly with at least 4 or 5 "eyes." They have traits like Hashashim guild journeyman (or something like that)

My merchants were good too, but I failed a mission from them to get a trade agreement with the Great Seljuks (no amount of money or favors seemed to appease them) - after that and losing their favor, half of my merchants were useless scoundrels who only made money after considerable real world efforts.

Let's get those other guilds in BC 3 man, it's an interesting part of the gameplay!!

ps.
that sucks about armories and armor upgrades... I don't like the idea of cranking out gold shields easily but it would be nice if it were at least possible to acquire silver upgrades through decades of heavy armory building...

[wudang_clown]

Well that's shocking to me and actually, I have not found the same thing to be true.... in fact, my Hashashim's guild and merchants guild have very noticeable effects on the assassins and merchants (respectively) that I hire. Since acquiring my Hashashim buildings all my killers come out well schooled, already deadly with at least 4 or 5 "eyes." They have traits like Hashashim guild journeyman (or something like that)

I've said: "most guilds", not "all guilds". That's a difference.

My merchants were good too, but I failed a mission from them to get a trade agreement with the Great Seljuks (no amount of money or favors seemed to appease them) - after that and losing their favor, half of my merchants were useless scoundrels who only made money after considerable real world efforts.

Let's get those other guilds in BC 3 man, it's an interesting part of the gameplay!!

Sorry, but no - simply because we have other interesting things to add instead.

ps.
that sucks about armories and armor upgrades... I don't like the idea of cranking out gold shields easily but it would be nice if it were at least possible to acquire silver upgrades through decades of heavy armory building...

That way or another, blacksmith building tree will be reworked. I'm not sure if there will be a possibility of upgrading armour, though. We'll see.

[Tuskin4]

Tintin howd you change the city models?Is it a minimod?

[SSJPabs]

I've said: "most guilds", not "all guilds". That's a difference.

Sorry, but no - simply because we have other interesting things to add instead.

That way or another, blacksmith building tree will be reworked. I'm not sure if there will be a possibility of upgrading armour, though. We'll see.

Also each armor upgrade has to be a new unit, so you could run out of space for units if you armor upgrade them all. I think it's silly that blacksmith guilds upgrade attack instead of defense (no need to get into my critiques of this mod here) but there are tradeoffs made. BC defense is already so high and attack values so low that it's not unreasonable to look at improvements in attack as desired from a gameplay perspective.

Tintin howd you change the city models?Is it a minimod?

This is a rather common and widespread re-working of the city models available on this site. TBH, after a while I switched back because I enjoyed the vanilla models more and only replaced the northern castle with the one from Britannia.

[Dago Red]

On a related note, I'd like to make a suggestion regarding unit training.

The idea that units only gain serious experience in battle is one that TW games have clung to for a long time. It's nice to have a few ways (drill square, horse races, etc) to increase a units experience somewhat. Without getting into how people gain experience in RL suffice it to say that both actual battle and hardcore, sustained training are both important (without tons of training these special forces wouldn't be special, and battle experience can ruin half as many troops as it elevates).

For gameplay, it's great to have 2 ways to train troops. If more of these guild buildings were simply activated, we'd have a 2nd way to train up fighting forces, especially during peace time. It would be expensive and take time (cost + time to build) but it's an option, say a style that a player/empire could take.

I suggest an infrastructure that would allow for continually training troops to a cap of 1 silver chevron - they would likely have to move from one castle/city to the next to train through different programs/guild buildings and drill squares, etc.

For example a unit of Askari cavalry is raised (via level 3 stables) in a castle town.
- Outfitted with upgraded weapons and trained for 1 chevron at the Armourer + stables.
- Shipped out to nearby a city to drill and race at the sultans race track for 2 chevrons
- Then stationed at a castle with a Horse Breeders' Guild where they accrue another 1 chevron

Total (4 chevrons or) 1 silver chevron unit with 1 weapon upgrade that required 4 different buildings. Counting all the pre-req buildings you'd need a total of 8 buildings. That would take a long time considering you also have to raise pop in at least 1 castle and 1 city to level 3, but this is a way for a player to train up some seasoned units without waiting 1000 years for those late units if they have the money and the time to do it.

This would be especially helpful for those who play a longer game, extending their empire into vast areas where only the poorest (or even no) troops can be trained.

It's also more role play with units which, even those who do not ask for, never seem to mind.
More role playing = better.
More options = better!

[wudang_clown]

I agree that recruitment could be a bit more complex in BC, it would only add value to the game-play.

I'd like to say that we will increase number of features involved in recruitment, that's for sure, though maybe not precisely in a way you're proposing. For instance, 1 chevron gained from Horse Breeder's Guild seems to be out of place to me, because HBG is meant to give horses, and not to increase experience of troops.

That's why I'd rather like to see HBG as one of requirements to recruit elite units... Like: you need high tier barracks, blacksmith and stables to recruit ghulams - professional warriors.

I sustain my previous opinion about keeping guilds in - I'm against it. But we haven't discussed it yet, so my opinion isn't decisive.

[Iguanaonastick]

I like the idea of guilds, but their current implementation is too random for my tastes.

If you could just build them, but say only one per city, and maybe only one of each kind per faction, then they'd offer interesting ways to specialise your cities and castles further.