Lancers in ETW and NTW

In NTW where every cavalry gets higher charge bonus, the lancers become a deadly weapon. They are fast and have devastating impact, and can swiftly get away to avoid high losses. But in ETW I don't see the lancers to be THAT effective. Do you use lancers in ETW as often in NTW? How do you use it?
Discuss.
Edit" I dunno where forum I should post, so modders plz!

Lancers will kill pretty much everything but in SP I try to always bring hussars or dragoons in case of ambush. Also, if I reposition horse cannons to fire from the side, I sometimes send a couple units of lancers to fend off enemy cav, and/or dragoons to dismount if I'm also worried about infantry. In MP, unless you have a specific strategy involving other types of cav, lancers are the way to go as they tend to losses highly disproportionate to their cost even in suicide charges.
Come to think of it, that's why they're good in SP too!

Lancer kick any other cavalrys arse if there charged in even say the really cheap russian cossack lancers wouls arse whoop a guards currassier unit if there charged into them or at least kill a huge number of them

personally, i don't like lancers, because we need to be always retreating, charging, retreating, charging...

lancers melee attack is low compared to cuirassiers for example, so i don't recommend...

Originally Posted by Master of Times

personally, i don't like lancers, because we need to be always retreating, charging, retreating, charging...

But dude, that is how you are supposed to use cavalry. Of any kind.

Lancers win against any other cavalry. End of story.

I wish CA would patch this to balance out the cavalry. Then I would be able to use the more interesting cavalry in mp and still not get owned too badly.

Originally Posted by kingtigertank

Lancers win against any other cavalry. End of story.

This is only true if you try to meet the lancers head-on. Keep infantry near your cavalry (all cavalry should have infantry support anyways) so if you see an incoming lancer charge you can retreat to the cover of friendly musketry, a volley will blunt the charge quite well. Also, work your cavalry in pairs; if one regiment is getting charged, have it retreat while the other unit counter-charges (if both regiments are getting charged, well, at least one regiment will get a bruising, so let's hope your infantry are there to help!).

If you do need to meet enemy lancers head-on, forming a diamond can sometimes help reduce the impact of the enemy charge since the lancers will hit the tip of the diamond first and this causes their charge to lose momentum.

There's no doubt that lancers are some seriously strong cavalry, I would not be opposed to increasing their cost. They aren't the be-all-end-all of cav however; like others have stated their melee is quite poor (elite lancers excepted) and they generally have mediocre to poor morale. Heavy cavalry, with their high morale and resistance to morale shock, can easily absorb one charge from lancers and then defeat them in the melee (if the lancers aren't withdrawn in time, which can happen if the other player is busy elsewhere).

I definitely prefer lancers as they are now compared to their ETW version. In ETW they were decent at first because they were cheap, but their charge bonus didn't even work half the time (and it would never work against a moving target, I tried very hard to make use of lancers in ETW); then their cost was dramatically increased and they became essentially useless since hussars could do anything lancers could but at a lower price. That's not even mentioning the hilariously overpowered (for a time) light dragoons.

Personally, I think Chasseurs a Cheval are the most dangerous cavalry. All the benefits of light cavalry, solid melee stats, and of course the ability to fire while mounted. Put them on skirmish mode and they essentially can't be charged, try to run from them and they'll shoot you in the back, an excellent counter charge since they can fire their muskets and blunt the momentum of the opposing charge, and if you do get into a melee with them they can defeat (or seriously delay) most non-heavy cavalry.

But even if heavy cav survives, they'll be destroyed as a unit. Lancers being cheaper that is not a good trade-off.

The only way to really deal with them is operating in pairs.

Lancers in Etw are well balanced but they need to be used against enemy units pinned by yours to be really effective or to catch retreating missile cavalry or to charge melee light cavalry.

In my experience, lancers in ETW are nearly useless against cavalry, while NTW lancers are much better because of the higher charge. (Lancers in NTW have more than 30 charge bonus at least, while in ETW lancers have only about 20 or so)
The only ETW lancers I found handy are the Winged Hussars and Sipahi Cav.