Modern day overseas possesions - dicussion.

[Treize]

I would like to start a general discussion about these since I am quite interested in them.

Some countries that still have them are Norway (antartica, Spitzbergen and some uninhabited islands), Spanje (Canary Island), Portugal (Madeira, the Azores), New-Zealand, Denmark (Greenland and Fearoes), Australia and some other countries with minor possesions. But I would like to concentrate on the British, French and Dutch possesions . And lets not forget the US possesions, ofcourse.

British:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British...as_territories

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

French:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_...nd_territories
(Large population of over 2.5 million!)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Dutch:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netherlands_Antilles
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aruba

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

As few possible points of discussion:
-What will be the future of these possesions?
-What country has the best 'colonial' policy?
-What do you think about this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissolu...lands_Antilles
-Should certain places become 'colonies' again?

[Tiberios]

If these overseas possessions want to remain in the union then let them. Basicly I think it's up to the locals to decide.

[Treize]

If these overseas possessions want to remain in the union then let them. Basicly I think it's up to the locals to decide.

BTW I'm sorry I forgot Denmark...

[Tiberios]

BTW I'm sorry I forgot Denmark...

well greenland isn't exactly the most impressive overseas possession in terms of population or economy.

[Treize]

Size matters.

[Dr. Croccer]

The French have the most succesful policy in using cultural assimilation and not shying away of using force when necessary.

[Treize]

Well I believe they are succesfull because they did not give indepence to every island with an over 20k population for no reason.

[Dr. Croccer]

Most of the French colonists want to be French, few want independence.

[Treize]

Indeed. If I am correct only New-Caledonia. Mayotte is going to integrate into France itself in 2011, a bit like the BES island but better I think.

[Ishoss]

Let the locals decide. Maybe hold a referendum ever 4 (or 5) years along with parliamentary elections?

[roy34543]

The french are the most aggresive, But its backfired on them when the locals want full rights such as healthcare , autonomy (and therefore get to choose their taxes to a greater extent) infastructure and various other goodies from the french government they all have to pay for, and then want the full profits from any national resourices such as oil .

[Thorn777]

^Yeah, Ive seen a docu once on the Island of St Martin, where the North is French and all inhabitants have virtually the same rights as the mainlanders including the EU stuff, and the south which is part of The Kingdom of the Netherlands but not of the nation the Netherlands itself.

And while most of the French part enjoy their high standard of living and wouldnt waste a thought on moving to France, the Dutch part has allot of poverty problems among the population and people cant wait to catch a plain to cold and rainy Holland.

The docu also had some rasta who gets a monthly French welfare cheque laughing about the southern population and how he loved La Republic. He got it made: free money in the Caribbean.

[Treize]

^Yeah, Ive seen a docu once on the Island of St Martin, where the North is French and all inhabitants have virtually the same rights as the mainlanders including the EU stuff, and the south which is part of The Kingdom of the Netherlands but not of the nation the Netherlands itself.

And while most of the French part enjoy their high standard of living and wouldnt waste a thought on moving to France, the Dutch part has allot of poverty problems among the population and people cant wait to catch a plain to cold and rainy Holland.

The docu also had some rasta who gets a monthly French welfare cheque laughing about the southern population and how he loved La Republic. He got it made: free money in the Caribbean.

If you clicked the link you would have seen that St. Maarten (South-St. Martin) is to become an autonomous country within the kingdom. Curaçoa is becoming this aswell. Just like Aruba's status. As a result they will get alot of autonomy except for foreign policy and defence but they will have to give us greater insight in their (fubar) finances...

On the other hand the smaller islands Bonaire, Statia and Saba will become special muncipalities with voting rights for the dutch elections BUT they will not be a part of any province, they will still get a very little bit of autonomy and worst of all they will not get our welfare levels.

Now what I would like to see is that the 3 BES-islands wil be FULLY integrated within the country instead of this crazy solution. Unfortunatly these 3 islands are too small to become a new province, however if we could somehow presuade one of the other two islands to join aswell... I suggest to invest alot of money in the three small islands to really bring the local public services and welfare to a higher level and then hold another referendum on Curaçoa and St. Maarten (and possibly americanised Aruba) in like 2020.

BTW St. Martin (french part) is not part of France itselfs (see link).

EDIT:

Comparing French-Guyana and Suriname is interesting aswell. Which one turned out to be the better place to live??

[Magno]

I say that the locals should be given a ballet with two choices Independance or Assimilation(to be recognized as an official part of France with equal rights and priviledges in no way different to a Frenchman in Paris, including ability to gain position in French government with equal representation. However some possesions, like my own Puerto Rico, can't make up their minds on the issue and will dwindle on forever as a contradiction until the world ends.

[Poach]

Well the UKs policy for Overseas Territories is one of choice. All our possessions remain with us because they want to be with us.

I think this is a very fair policy.

[Treize]

So do you have very autonomous lands that cost you lot of money?

[Azog 150]

Yes, they are pretty autonomous. I don't think they cost us too much money (Exceptions being Monserrate thanks to the 1990's Volcanic eruption causing most people to be displaced and infrastructure to be totally ruined). Some also have the potentual to give it back financially (Falklands oil being one example) or strategically (Indian Ocean territory, Antarctic territory etc)

[Treize]

Ok. But your possesions have very small populations anyway so the costs are not that high I suppose.

I believe you can't have both autonomy and loads of money. IMO it is one or the other.

[Poach]

Most of our overseas possessions don't give us much money but they don't really cost us too much either. The money they make is simply spent there.

Maintaining the Falklands islands defences may be expensive, but with the Oil it may be paying itself off rather quickly!

[CiviC]

France is the best in keeping her overseas possesions for several reasons. First of all because the French state is very egalitarian in regards to its citizens no matter the race and ethnicity, so nobody feels as a minority. Second of all France has one of the best educational systems that makes anyone, no matter their cultural background to feel French and adhere to French nation, culture and values. Third of all, the French people (of French ethnicity/ancient citizenship) are very loyal to their country and they don't want to create new countries even if they colonised lands on the other side of the globe.

The French territory of New Caledonia was offered the possibility to vote for independence in the near future, still the native Melanisians are only 44% of population while the Europeans with 34% together with Polynesians and other immigrants constittute a majority (in power at gevernement) that opposes full independence so it's likely New Caledonia will remain part of France, with enlarged autonomy.

Interesting is also the case of Mayotte, one of the Comoran Islands that chose to remain in 1974/76 with France the become part of independente Comores (Comores still claims it). Recently a referendum decided the island to become a French department with no special status. 95% of the population is Sunni Muslim but it seems they know that being part of France is better then being part of Union of Comores, a very instable and poor country.