Help adding shields to an archers unit, please.

[FJMS1988]

Hello everybody, I want to add shields to an archers unit and I have tried to do it by myself modding the battle_model.modeldb file but my archers unit appears without any shield in the battlefield although its battle model has been copied from an archers units with shield. I don’t know where the problem is and I would be very happy if someone could help me with this. Thank you very much in advance.

[Ishan]

Well my friend you can't add a shield to an archer just by copying the same entries of an archer which has a shield in the battlemodelsdb file you specifically need to edit it's 3d model by converting it's mesh file to ms3d and then editing the ms3d model file with milk shape 3d software.

[FJMS1988]

Ok, thank you very much for your response, indeed. But, how can I edit the ms3d model in order to add a shield? I know how can I use the milk shape 3d software creating unit cards with model, textures and attachments, but I have no idea how can I edit the unit model and how can I add a shield. Please tell me.

[Ishan]

Ok no problem in doing that just follow the steps.
1. First pick all the mesh files corresponding to both the archers. Archer with shield is X and archer without shield is Y.
2. Then convert them using mesh to ms3d using this converter.
3. Then open the .ms3d file of unit X and then under the groups tab delete all the figures and attachments except the shield that you want and save changes, call this file as Z.
4. After that use the converter to merge unit Y and Z and u have what u want.
Good luck Bro.

[FJMS1988]

Thank you very much for your help one more time, I have added the shield to the unit as you told me and the unit has a shield now. The problem is that it looks…I don’t know how to explain it; I have never seen something like this. Take a look to the image I have uploaded and tell me what can I do to solve it, please.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=ES8HQ2M2

[Ishan]

That's a Jesus syndrome. OK send me the mesh files for both the units X and Y and i'll do it for you.
And plz don't use megaupload or something just zip or rar the files and attach it in the reply it's easy and saves time.

Also by looking the pic i think the overlapping of unit Y and Z is improper as you might have done something wrong in creating unit Z

[FJMS1988]

Sorry. How can I send you the mesh files?

[FJMS1988]

Ok, here you have the files. Thank you very much in advance for your help, although I would like to learn how can I do it by myself since I want to modify some other units. Thank you.

Unit X are Longbowmen and unit Y are Basque Archers

[Ishan]

OK the two units were Basque archers and English longbowmen.
I did exactly what i told you now pay attention friend.
You gave me 2 each sets of basque archers and longbowmen where one is the upgrade of each type.
I made the new unit using the files highlighted in red.

16 files were:-
basque_archers_lod0.mesh
basque_archers_lod1.mesh
basque_archers_lod2.mesh
basque_archers_lod3.mesh

longbowmen_lod0.mesh
longbowmen_lod1.mesh
longbowmen_lod2.mesh
longbowmen_lod3.mesh

basque_archers_ug1_lod0.mesh
basque_archers_ug1_lod1.mesh
basque_archers_ug1_lod2.mesh
basque_archers_ug1_lod3.mesh

longbowmen_ug1_lod0.mesh
longbowmen_ug1_lod1.mesh
longbowmen_ug1_lod2.mesh
longbowmen_ug1_lod3.mesh

Now the unit that i have modded the unit that uses only the 1st set i.e. i have created the 1 new unit that you want but not it's upgrade since i want you to make other upgrade one for yourself so that you can learn how to do it.
Now for the explanation
To be clear
Basque archers=X
Longbowmen=Y
New unit=Z
What i did was i firstly converted them all to .ms3d files
Then i opened the file for unit Y i.e. longbowmen_lod0.ms3d. i went under the groups tab and deleted all the materials under the tab except small round plain_18 up to small round plain_27 because they correspond to the shield that you want. After that i saved the file. Call this file Y1.
Now i merged basque_archers_lod0.ms3d with Y1 and i got my 1st file called Z1 for the new unit.
I repeated the same steps and got Z2,Z3,Z4 and reconverted them back to get the mesh files.

Now i already have checked this unit in custom battle and it works OK.
So i presume you carry on form here now.
There is one more crucial part but I'll explain it later but first try this one.

[FJMS1988]

Yes, thank you very much; this is exactly how the archers unit has to look. Very nice work.What’s next, please?

[FJMS1988]

Now I have tried to add the shield to the ug1 models and the same problem has happened. I am sure I am doing the procedure as you told me and so I can’t understand what’s wrong. I have been looking for a solution and I have found this: http://www.twcenter.net/forums//showthread.php?p=4820549

The response says: “you've assigned the whole body 100% to the Pelvis bone. You need to assign arms to arm bones etc for the animations to work”, but I have no idea how can I do this.
Here you have the new ug1 model I have created, the one that doesn’t work correctly (you have here both mesh. and ms3d. files).

[Ishan]

Yes I'm familiar with the link that you found out. But this Jesus syndrome happened to me only once when i used a start model of a general to make new battle model. Believe me that's a different thing.
But I'm sure that you are doing something wrong in one of steps as it's a simple procedure and has nothing to do with assigning of vertex's etc.
Maybe your milk shape is set out in different settings or something don't really know or whenever you save save changes to the longbowmen maybe it's vertex's gets fiddled up but can't really say.

Hey wait a minute Eureka friend. I just downloaded your new file for ug1 model and found out what u were doing wrong can't tell how you messed it up but i have found out the error.
Now Look closely at pic 1 and see for yourself what you have done wrong which is clearly visible.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Now for the remedy or solution, Read my instructions again carefully and when you open the longbowmen_ug1_lod0.ms3d and delete all the lines under the groups tab except for small round plain_18 to 27 then save changes and close milkshape.
Then open that altered file again in milkshape to see u that small round plain_18 to small round plain_27 are assigned only to attachments under the groups tab not the figure.

Hope this helps which it should as there is nothing else to tell or rectify your problem.
Good luck brother

[FJMS1988]

I don’t know what’s wrong; the question is that I have correctly merged the shield part from 18 to 27 as an attachment material but I still have two copies of materials that appear when I merge both models. Each model has it’s own figure and attachments, so when I merge the two models I have two figures and two attachments ( 2 + 2 = 4 ). I have tried to delete one figure and attachments but then also disappears some parts of the model as logical. I have reinstalled the program and we have still the same problem, I know that the procedure is easy and this is the reason I can’t understand where the problem is, and I have the version 1.8.4 of the program.

[Ishan]

I'm sorry to hear that it still doesn't works for you.
It frustrates me that i can't really help you all the way from India my friend which i really want to with all my heart but lets work on a different tactics for the time being.

Before we go any further i have attached the new ug1 model for you in advance and I'm sure it will relieve your problems for a time being but I'm a relentless person i hate to fail in a task so stay with me brother together we'll try our level best to nail this problem..

So the situation is simple when i do the merging process i do it right and when you do it u get a jesus syndrome even though we are doing the same process to achieve this new Z unit.

Now i assume you are familiar with battle_models.modeldb file you might have every unit for example longbowmen have 3 to 4 entries according to their mesh files like this below.

57 unit_models/_Units/EN_Peasant_Padded/longbowmen_lod0.mesh 121
57 unit_models/_Units/EN_Peasant_Padded/longbowmen_lod1.mesh 900
57 unit_models/_Units/EN_Peasant_Padded/longbowmen_lod2.mesh 2500
57 unit_models/_Units/EN_Peasant_Padded/longbowmen_lod3.mesh 6400

where 121, 900, 2500, 6400 are distances from where we see the unit in the battle map. for example from distance 0 to 121 for lonbowmen we will see lod0.mesh file and so on.
Why it is so? according to my logic we know always lod0 is the heaviest file and lod3 is lightest file in size so when distance increases clarity of a unit decreases so as to make the 3d engine more efficient.

Now from the top people what i want you to do is carefully edit longbowmen_ug1_lod0.ms3d.
1. Open the file in milkshape then don't click anything except the groups tab.
2. Under it click on the first entry and keep pressing delete button given below till you reach small round plain_18 entry.
3. Then scroll down click the entry below small round plain_27 and delete all the remaining entries under small round plain_27.
4. Finally press ctrl+s and close the file.
Now merge lod0.ms3d file of b.archers with the edited file you just created above and save the file for new unit and convert it to mesh.

Now you have the first lod0 file for new unit and now what i want you to do is simply create 3 more copies of the same z_ug1_lod0.mesh and rename the other three like lod1, lod2, lod3.
Now place the same file in the mod and check it custom battle. I'm definite that you will get it because what i presume is that u are making a mistake in creating one of the lod files which in result causes the error because for a starter all this editing all together surely causes a flaw somewhere.

If you get it right then you can carry on merging the last three lod files and create a complete unit afterwords.

[FJMS1988]

Ok, I have found finally the solution. I have found another way to merge both models with the program Mesh 2 ms3d as the merge option is also available in this program and it runs perfect now. I am very grateful to you for your great help, effort and dedication, indeed. Thank you very much brother.

[Huene]

i think the problem might have been you didnt delete the skeleton from the merged file. or at least i didnt see a mention of it.

[TSD]

Ok, I have found finally the solution. I have found another way to merge both models with the program Mesh 2 ms3d as the merge option is also available in this program and it runs perfect now. I am very grateful to you for your great help, effort and dedication, indeed. Thank you very much brother.

you merged with milkshape the first time I am assuming and not with the mseh2ms3d converter? (ishan indicated to you to use the mesh2ms3d program to merge, NOT milkshape)

[FJMS1988]

Yes, I merged with Milkshape. I assumed that I had to use Milkshape to merge the models and I hadn’t understood clearly that I had to use the SAME converter.

[Ishan]

Oh my god brother.
Really how silly for both us you didn't understood the steps that i told you in the first place and i for not clearly specifying that u needed to do the merging process with Grumpyoldman's converter.
Nonetheless whats done is done the main point is we nailed the problem once and for all.

[Peteriscoolz]

To save a milshape file I have to buy it first?