Most effective armies and strategies to kill AI with minimal losses

[PaleBlueDot]

What I like most about strategy games is being able to kill loads of units with few losses.
My strategies in RTW and M2TW has always been based on using armies that can defeat most other armies of the same size, with hardly any losses at all. The important point is that the other army should be equal in terms of size and quality, using loads of superior units is "too easy" and not to the point. Also important is it that no special elements like bridges should be needed.

Several elements of such an army are obviously helpful:
One is to cause mass rout as quickly as possible.
Another element is to use a lot of ranges weapons, as they can kill without taking losses.
Another important element is to have high defense units take enemy fire, and high damage units deliver the blows.
Yet another very important element is to use flanking a lot.

If you combine these you can get an army that accomplish the goal I stated without having to resort to bridges, siege defence etc.

One obvious solution is to use nothing but mounted archers/crossbow/firearms, but I spend too much time pausing and micromanaging the troops.

One army combination that works well for battles of equal size and most fields is: 1 third ranged, 1 third defensive spear and one third cav on a small slope. The archers/crossbows are placed behind one another, with the spear in front. The archers/crossbows will cause moral loss, and when the enemy attacks spearmen, the downhill charging cavalry will make any unit rout. The horses go pick up routing enemies. Killing enemy general is easy with loads crossbows, and makes the routing even more likely.

I have won "fair" battles loosing 5% of my units this way. Cav militia is perfect, as they count as "cheap" units but cause as much fear. The downside is that it needs at least a small slope, so that archers and crossbows doesnt shoot straight into the air, and to make the cav charge more painful. Another weakness is against enemies that have a lot of catapults. Works very well with any faction that has good ranged units, especially italian ones.


CAV_ARCHERS_CAV_ARCHERS_CAV
CAV_ARCHERS_CAV_ARCHERS_CAV
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ENEMYENEMYENEMYENEMYENEMY


What I am looking for is other army composition that will be equally successful in winning battles against AI with minimal losses, but "small enough" for the enemy to attack them volountarily or to get "heroic victories".

[micheljq]

Well, I have found that the HRE armies are at big disavantage agains Danemark, at least before the powder era. Danemark has the Huscarls, Norse swordmen, norse archers quite early and for Hre it takes time before having troops of high quality.

There is also Poland with his Polish Nobles, cavalry archers with armour that are quite dangerous against both Hre and Danemark.

[Valandur]

Well, I have found that the HRE armies are at big disavantage agains Danemark, at least before the powder era. Danemark has the Huscarls, Norse swordmen, norse archers quite early and for Hre it takes time before having troops of high quality.

There is also Poland with his Polish Nobles, cavalry archers with armour that are quite dangerous against both Hre and Danemark.

HRE has plenty of troops to counter Denmark. The Dismounted Gothic Knights, Feudal Knights, Zweihander and Forlorn Hope units can shred what Denmark has to offer.
Plus, HRE can basically destroy Denmark with it's amazing Cavalry such as the Teutonic Knights, Imperial Knights and Gothic Knights. Honestly, I think HRE has the most diverse and best unit roster in the game.

[Lennert]

Well, I do know a way to manage a javelin cav heavy army without alot of micromanaging. I once encountered a heavy english army in a dense forest with lots of DFK, mailed knights and a couple of longbows. My army was mostly consisting of jinetes and a couple of units of heavy cav. Not a battle you want to micromanage.. not in a forest anyway. So I formed up a line with my jinetes, grouped them and set them on guard mode to keep them in that line as much as possible (skirmishing was off, ofcourse). The heavy cav I kept in reserve. Now I just sent the line of jinetes towards the enemy and showered them with javelins, anytime they came too close I moved the whole line as a group. Turned out to work brilliantly! When the jinetes were out of ammo I moved them across the flanks and charged the enemy frontally, they all routed even before they actually collided. (the sounding of the horn instills some fear I noticed).

Must admit I havent tried this in any other situation since then, but I almost didn't have any casualties in that battle.

I'm definately going to try your tactic some time, it seems practical.

[Mithrane]

When the jinetes were out of ammo I moved them across the flanks and charged the enemy frontally, they all routed even before they actually collided. (the sounding of the horn instills some fear I noticed).

The fact that you had cavalry close to their flanks and rear is what caused them to rout, not the horn. The fact that they were charging enhanced this effect. The fact that the units had already been decimated to (I'd guess) 1/2 strength greatly enhanced this effect. The infantry's morale was sapped. You charged them on the flanks / rear. They will rout to peasants in this situation.

[Lennert]

Well, I moved the Jinetes around the flanks to their rear, and at the same time I charged them frontally with my heavy cav. Then the Jinetes would be in the perfect position to capture the routers, or charge to the enemy rear if needed.

Like this:

[Mithrane]

Well, I moved the Jinetes around the flanks to their rear, and at the same time I charged them frontally with my heavy cav. Then the Jinetes would be in the perfect position to capture the routers, or charge to the enemy rear if needed.

Like this:

There are few things in this game which will sap morale more than what you have described. Surrounding them. Charging them frontally AND on the flanks / rear. Damaged by ranged units. Infantry facing cavalry. Only ways to make it more sure to give a route would be to use a dreaded general, flaming shot / arrows, and cows from a trebuchet.


In fact, for an army to cause routes, I would make it 1/2 camels, 1/4 pike infantry, 1/8 mangonels, 1/8 trebuchets, and 1 general with 5+ dread.

Keep the artillery at flame / cow mode. Make them walk through the oil and cows. Then charge with camels from the flanks. Pikes keep them from getting in close. General should be running all over the place, as his dread will sap their morale nearly instantly by this point.

[Lennert]

My dreadfull faction heir was leading that battle, so according to what you're saying that must have helped I don't think he had more than 4 dread at the time though.

[Mithrane]

Dread can have huge effects against an army without a general backing them. Even then, a general without chivalry or +morale talents will not counteract a general with 4+ dread. Just being NEAR the enemy troops is enough for him to cause them to rout.

[Lennert]

That's exactly his point. All those units you've mentioned take more upgrades to unlock then the ones michel mentioned. I agree that the HRE is very strong all around in the later period but Denmark has the edge in the earlier period (as they were meant to).

[InsaneHanz]

I tried something like this with the Turks. It was nine units of Janissary Archers, six units of Janissary Musketeers, four units of Qupukulu (heavy calvary), and one dreaded general. The Janissary Archers would deploy stakes and set up a box to protect the army from cavalry. Janissary Musketeers would be in front and the Archers would be behind them with fire arrows. The heavy calvary were for protecting the flanks in case the enemy was attempting to get behind the stakes. They were also useful for taking out catapults and cannons. This worked amazingly against any army without a decent General.

[Lennert]

If we're talking armies that can easily be kept going, I've got another idea for England. You assemble an army from 4 generals, 4 units of levy spearmen and 12 units of yeomans. In the field you set up a classic box formation with stakes, fill up the corners wilth shiltrom formations of spearmen and use the generals as heavy cav to chase missile troops and lure the enemy in range of your bowmen. The generals replenish their bodyguard automatically, the yeomans should hold their numbers pretty well and the levies are very expendable and are replaced easily. I've used this with alot of succes against the mongols and other eastern factions.

Edit: Further advantages of the GB are ofcourse their much better survivability against missile troops due to the fact that they make a smaller target since they have half the numbers and can swallow alot more arrows because of their two hitpoints.

[Muagan_ra]

A fortuitous bombard-ball to the cranium of the enemy general does the trick for me!

But, seriously, I find the most efficient armies to be all-cavalry ones. A horde of horse archers do tremendous damage to enemies, and if you keep some heavy cavalry around to deal with hard targets you can cut any army to ribbons or cause them to rout through sheer horrifying body-counts. Those French Mounted Archers are probably the most dangerous unit I've ever encountered, for precisely this reason.

[... where did it run?]

It's only "armor effective" missile attack having HA.

Blah, haven't even spotted it earlier.. looks like a bit overpowered. Ah, bu oh well..