1939 Polish army and Italian army, which was the best ?

[Belisaire_]

Polish army was quickly rout by german but italian army wouldn't have do better in such situation.

[Atlassmurf]

If you want to start an historical discussion don't start with one line of not-sufficiently built up text.

[Amagi]

1939 Polish army and Italian army, which was the best ?

Proposal:

1939 Polish army and Italian army, which didn´t fail as much as the other?

[AnthoniusII]

Determine the "best".
Italian army almost exterminated the British in north africa(Libya and Egypt)and British saved because Greek army won over Italians in the Greek-Albanian front.
How can we determine which army was best?
There are a lot of factors that lead an army to a victory and defeat.
For example: The italian warships were better quality than the british ones but the british ships had radars..and won almost in every duel...
Polish army had to deal two fronts against two souper powers of their time (Germans and Soviets)...
Only Greeks defended succesfully in two fronts but only for a short time period...in 1940-41.
So in order to deside which army was the best we must have some basic factors to compare.

[Leonidas The Lion]

you better edit the OP otherwise I see this getting closed.

[♔DARTH LEGO♔]

correct me if im wrong but werent they both crushed resoundingly??

i remember(not personally) something about polish lancers charging german mechanised divisions.... and an italian tank having 4 gears in reverse?

[Farnan]

Depends which Polish Army? There were three of them. The Polish Army in 1939, the Polish Army in the West and the Polish Army in the East. Then which Italian Army? The Italian Army till 1943, the Italian Co-Beligerant Army and the Italian Facist Remnants.

[Manuel I Komnenos]

Actually the Italian soldier was a good fighter and very brave.. The Italian command was a joke..

[♔DARTH LEGO♔]

Actually the Italian soldier was a good fighter and very brave.. The Italian command was a joke..

fair comment....

[Last Roman]

I dont know much about the Polish army of WWII, but the Italian one was poorly equipped and poor leadership from officers and politicians. The fact that they were able to keep on the war as long as they did is a testament to the average soldier.

[OTZ]

Why all the hate for Poland? They did remarkably well considering their situation. It took almost a month for the entire might of Germany to crush her (coupled with some timely Soviet interferrence).

Of all they myths still perpetuated about the war, the "quick" collapse of Poland is one of my least favorite.

I'm sure Domen will be around soon enough!

[Amagi]

And of all the myths of WW2, the innocent defensive Poland is my least favorite.
Poland was the first country in WW2 to install concentration camps for example. Not to mention their aggresive push for "a greater poland" in it´s 1772 borders.

On pilsudsky there´s a nice essay to be found here and if you´d like to see some graphics of what they did to the german minority- which constitued the main reasons for germany´s attack- you can enlighten yourself here:
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6033

It was Poland that started the warfare of WW2- by attacking russia and germany, and it was england that turned it into a world war.

[RomanSoldier9001]

[QUOTE=Amagi;7372479]

And of all the myths of WW2, the innocent defensive Poland is my least favorite.
Poland was the first country in WW2 to install concentration camps for example. Not to mention their aggresive push for "a greater poland" in it´s 1772 borders.

On pilsudsky there´s a nice essay to be found here and if you´d like to see some graphics of what they did to the german minority- which constitued the main reasons for germany´s attack- you can enlighten yourself here:
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6033

It was Poland that started the warfare of WW2- by attacking russia and germany, and it was england that turned it into a world war.

Poland didnt attack neither Soviet Union or Third Reich is true that they did treated rather badly their nation minoraties(not polish) such as ukranians or germans both of wich were used as "casus belli" by the Soviet Union and Thrid Reich respectivly. But Germans and Soviets were probaly worse when dealing with poles so I dont see anyone has "moral higthground" in this "detail".
When was the aggresive push to gain "Greater Poland"? That last thing I remember that poles "conquer" land was in Soviet-Polish War that was started by soviets and they almost took Poland until the Battle of Warsaw.

What a comparison...the Polish resisted the germans heavily despite their dire situation. It took almost as much time to defeat them than the french.

And Soviets. The French fougth valiantly for me the thing was that french as italians were simply outdated comparing with Germans also their strategy was simple wrong they were thinking WW1 scenarios when Germany was thinking in WW2 scenarios but I got to say overal the french soldier was brave(I remember even that they hold the line while the brave "anglo-saxons" run to their island) and of course not mentioning the Volunters in German Armed Forces such as CharleMagne Division that fougth bravely almost to the last men at Berlin.

The Italians just failed miserably wherever they went.

I guess that British acted better in Dunkirk.
I would ask a thing you consider swinming near to ships and puting bombs that is pretty much a suicidal mission and actualy suciding destruing entire ships as "failing miserably"?



I realy dont know wich was the best if the Poles or the Italians both peoples fougth with great valor and is always dificult to discuss such thing especealy when the ones that were actualy in foxholes in desert in filed of battle for them they were the best but I would say Poles.
For star both Poles and Italians share "steryotype" negative myths of being "weak" armies with outdated tactis,equipement and pretty much seen as cowardly that isnt true the Poles never charge german tanks with cavalary and they actualy put a great figth the italians werent all cowards as is show in Africa sumarizing what Rommel said "The German Soldier Impresed the World but the Italian Soldier impresed the German Soldier" many of victories of Rommel werent becuase of Germans but actualy thanks to the Italian Miltiary! For me this proves me that with good leardship italians could act valiantly. They fougth to exastuation in East Africa and in Eastern Front. But in end the italians lack a lot of things.
No offense to Italians but altough Italian Military had great deeds and examples of bravery they lose when many times they show great cowardise and even betrayal I am not saing that all were like because thats a myth but I dont think we can blame it all on bad leardship on high command and outdated tatics,equipement etc. Sometimes they simply didnt peform well and just comparing how the German,Soviet,Japanese,British,Finnish,Balt,Ukranians,Hungarian peoples resisted their foe when they were being bombed,occupied and killed and comparing to the italian people that pretty much surrender when allies set foot in Italy is almost laugthble

[Farnan]

Bring your Nazi somewhere else.

[ly0_ly0]

Italy>Poland

[RuleBritannia]

Italy and Poland both had miserable armies, but overall, Poland was a bit better in 1939.

A joke went around during this time among the Wehrmacht and High Command: One day Hitler was consulting with his best commander of Italy's stance in the war, be it Axis, Allies, or neutral. The commander responsed, "Well, if Italy joins the war against us, we'll need 7 divisions to hold the Alps. If they join the war with us, we'll need 27 divisions to give them some backbone."


Plus, Italy's horrible performance in the North African campaigns also stands testament to this.

[conon394]

It was Poland that started the warfare of WW2- by attacking russia and germany, and it was england that turned it into a world war.

Please - can't you troll somewhere else

----

Italy and Poland both had miserable armies, but overall, Poland was a bit better in 1939.

To second OTZ what is with the pot shots at Poland?

I mean Poland's GDP was rather smaller than France or Italy and held for ~5.5 weeks with no western aid and a Soviet attack. Lets see France lasted what about a week longer even with the BEF (and RAF support), and the fact both Belgium and the Dutch fought Germany advances...

[Odovacar]

What a comparison...the Polish resisted the germans heavily despite their dire situation. It took almost as much time to defeat them than the french.

[Salem1]

What a comparison...the Polish resisted the germans heavily despite their dire situation. It took almost as much time to defeat them than the french.

This. The Italians had some seriously laughable leadership, most notably Mussolini himself. Poland wasn't in the best position, which is understandable for a country that had had less than 20 years to work itself back into existance and was surrounded by two neighbours that were both much stronger in every way than Poland. But the Poles still put up a decent fight when considering that they were facing completely overpowering opposition. Italy on the other hand... that nation would've been more useful just sending what materials it had to Germany rather than trying to contribute anything with its military. If Mussolini hadn't been such a fool and started the war W-A-Y before Italy was ready for it at all, then maybe.

[Last Roman]

The Italians had some seriously laughable leadership, most notably Mussolini himself.

This. I was reading up on the Italian invasion of Greece. Mussolini should've just played wannabe emperor.

From wiki:

The order to invade Greece was given by Mussolini to Badoglio and Roatta on October 15 with the expectation that the attack would commence with 12 days. Badoglio and Roatta were appalled given that, acting on his orders, they had demobilised 600,000 men three weeks prior. Given the expected requirement of at least 20 divisions to facilitate success, the fact that only eight divisions were currently in Albania, and considering the inadequacies of the Albanian ports and connecting infrastructure, adequate preparation would require at least three months

Though I suppose it's a good thing in the end that Italy was a drain for Germany.

The Italians just failed miserably wherever they went.

Wrong. When under capable commanders, they preformed quite well and with distinction.

to the italian people that pretty much surrender when allies set foot in Italy is almost laugthble

I think that has more to do with them wanting the war over with than anything else. In this one book I have/had (Revolution I think its called) the author notes how Italy saw Germany as her traditional enemy and not too many Italians were keen on the Berlin-Rome alliance.